Thoughts on the new added songs

Originally Posted by David

I listened to what I could. "Sara" sounds staid & even listless to me, like the carefully measured performances of it (in my opinion, a misreading) from 1988. Stevie approaches every song vocally these days with the same adagio moderato. If you electronically analyzed her sound wave, I'm sure you'd find a perfectly horizontal line. I can't help thinking that there's some sort of pernicious cause-&-effect relationship between her projection & the addition of the session players to the live mix in '87 (which is just about when she busted up).

Well, i'm a sucker for "sara"....but i never cared for her solo band's version...they changed things around too much and it wasn't as tight as FM...then again, i didn't really care for any of the 1982 versions either...she was all over the place vocally and it got annoying. i've never heard the 1988 version.

yeah, you're right about her vocal approach these days....i really don't know what the reason is...and, yes, we have analyzed this to death...i wish Stevie would comment on it herself....i think there are so many reasons. i don't think it's just because of the backup players. she had that on her solo tours and that didn't stop her....at least until 1989. As a matter of fact, one might think that they can just go as crazy as they want because there's extra people up there to cover their ass. So, in 1987, imo, non-partying was a REALLY big factor. additionally, things got less crazy, FM wasn't the same, she hit 40, and her attitude changed...and i'm sure there's **** that happened to her that we don't even know about that would make any of us sober up. I've known of people that just turned into blobs when they quit drinking...it's like they can't function at social events and seem devoid of any genuine emotions. it's sad.

Lindsey needs to watch it too. His voice isn't exactly what it was...Hey, don't flame me people, this is just par for the course.. I was watching "blondie-a&e's live by request" and she's had to drop the key in a lot of her songs too.
Obviously, some songs just aren't going to sound as good or transfer over as well in a lower key.

Originally Posted by David

"Not Wrong" sounds plodding to me, too -- I think because of Mick's drumming. It's all wrong. He plays the sixteenths on the hi-hat as if the band were doing "Dreams," instead of whacking on those toms in that quasi African way he used to. When you take the jungle beat out of "Not Wrong," what are you left with? "Dreams"?

I'll have to listen again to it. I only heard it once when i downloaded it. The thing that attracted me to Mick's drumming was that tribal feel he used to incorporate....he hasn't played that way in a while. That's what i really love about the older FM records...his best moments shined then. And i really really REALLY hate the vest thing during "World Turning"...it would be my beer run song except they close the bar at 9pm....it was cute in 1987 cause everthing was synth oriented then anyway, but for me, real instruments win hands down....i would be thrilled to see him just pound away at that old talking drum instead of abbreviating that part to a minute or two...and then slapping himself like a spaz....anyone can hit pads concealed in their vest...those old "World Turning" drum solos of years past were so interesting to listen to....very eerie in a way.

But i just couldn't get past the lower key they sang "IKINW" in. Unfortunately, i really don't like any of the songs that are dropped in a lower key..."the chain" has never been the same since they dropped it down. I think this is because of Lindsey. That part "i can STILL HEAR YOU SAYIN" is a bit hard to reach.

Originally Posted by David

It's too bad they dropped "DLMDA" because that is such a showcase for Lindsey's wicked guitar work. But dropping it (like Stevie refusing to put "Long Distance Winner" in her 1998 set list) seems yet another nail in the coffin of the CD release of "Buckingham Nicks."

Yeah, i know...i honestly didn't think it sounded bad...even in the lower key. I heard the extra guitarists filling in the guitar harmonies and it was good. They need to move it more toward the middle of the set and introduce it or something.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

So wait for verdict until you heard better recordings.

true...

Originally Posted by shackin'up

And, please give SOME respect for the people who heard it live and were thrilled.

i haven't heard any personal bashing going on here...i mean noone is saying "how dare you like that live performance you idiot..." we're just offering opinions. you gotta be able to sift through all the positive and negatives and still be able to hold your own without being influenced by one or the other. don't let the "negative" opinions bring you down. "i'm not right, i'm not wrong...my god! what have i done!?"

Originally Posted by EveryHour

I, for one, am happy to see her drug-free and will take her any way I can get her because she ~and we~ are lucky she's alive!) or (even more likely, IMO) desire to preserve her voice. We all know she used to blow her vocal chords singing the way she used to, and maybe she had to make a decision...continue to sing that way and risk losing her voice forever, or tone it down a little and be able to go on. [/B]

i completely agree...look at some of the other performers that are out there and look and sound horrible...i'm glad she's alive and even on stage. i've gotten over expecting this and that from them. i'm grateful the setlist changed and the most important thing for me is that she/they look happy. Stevie can sound as monotone as she wants but if she's laughing and interacting with the audience and truly enjoying herself then i feel like my money went to some good use.

Originally Posted by Mike B

it was 1 less than Mick led us to believe

guys, don't crucify the guy cause they're one song short. I know everyone loves to get on the mick bashwagon here but he's not to blame for everything. is everything written in stone in this world? we can't hang on to every spoken word....especially over one omitted song.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Right you are. We can see Lindsey's paying now for that very thing.

I am unsure what you mean? They are playing DLMDA in the same key as it was on the BN record. While I am not a guitar person, I base this on what a member of the band told me Moreover, there are parts of that recording of Sara where Stevie sounds exactly the same as on the Tusk video Finally, they are all in their 50's. So, of course they are going to calm it down vocally So, again, I do not get your statement?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I am unsure what you mean? They are playing DLMDA in the same key as it was on the BN record. While I am not a guitar person, I base this on what a member of the band told me Moreover, there are parts of that recording of Sara where Stevie sounds exactly the same as on the Tusk video Finally, they are all in their 50's. So, of course they are going to calm it down vocally So, again, I do not get your statement?

I think she's referring to Lindsey's singing/screaming and how his vocal chords are going to suffer from it, Jason.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

I think she's referring to Lindsey's singing/screaming and how his vocal chords are going to suffer from it, Jason.

Ah - my bad Glitter!!!!

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by joe

i haven't heard any personal bashing going on here...i mean noone is saying "how dare you like that live performance you idiot..." we're just offering opinions. you gotta be able to sift through all the positive and negatives and still be able to hold your own without being influenced by one or the other. don't let the "negative" opinions bring you down. "i'm not right, i'm not wrong...my god! what have i done!?"

Oh, this is due to my lack of vocabulary, joe. I meant it completely different: There's nothing disrespectful about the post I quoted, I meant: Take some notice of the very enthusiastic response from the people who were there, and include that in the verdict of the performance, especially when the soundquality is not that good.
I am not that quick out of balance.
Actually, I love opinions.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by joe

Lindsey needs to watch it too. His voice isn't exactly what it was...

But i just couldn't get past the lower key they sang "IKINW" in. Unfortunately, i really don't like any of the songs that are dropped in a lower key..."the chain" has never been the same since they dropped it down. I think this is because of Lindsey. That part "i can STILL HEAR YOU SAYIN" is a bit hard to reach.

Nonsense. If anything, Lindsey has grown as a vocalist throught the years. Listen to the Buckingham Nicks tracks and the white album songs. He sang too high, often sounding a bit shrill. With Tusk his voice seemed to get better. In the song Tusk, he uses that whispering, lower register that is quite fetching. Then with Mirage, he brought that lower-register singing to a new level. For instance, his Elvis impersonation in Oh Diane is one of the reasons the song appeals to me. He does the lower-register stuff again in Big Love, You and I, Part I, Twister and other numbers.

If Lindsey sometimes doesn't sound that good live, it has nothing to do with whether his voice has gotten worse or better. He's just not a great live singer. Period. He has great moments, but often he pushes his voice too high, probably as a result of also having to play the guitar. It may not even be subconscious, but his playing and singing are in competition the whole time he is playing up there. It is tough to strike the right balance of playing, especially when you're doing leads as opposed to rhythm, and singing at the correct register. For instance, as much as I love the Tusk version from the Dance, his voice grates on me a little bit. I wish he'd sing it like the original, but I bet it's very hard to do.

Be that as it may, I seriously doubt the key in The Chain was changed to accommodate Lindsey. Considering Dreams and Landslide were changed for Stevie, the most likely reason for The Chain change is also Stevie's voice. I would bet that is also why Peacekeeper was changed from the original to the SYW version.

They're certainly not changing keys to accommodate Lindsey's guitars. Though to be sure certain keys are easier to play on the guitar than other, key changes for performances are usually because of the vocals. For instance, Peackeeper in Em is a hell of a lot easier to play than in Gm, but that's Gm is what the song was changed to. Of course the use of a capo makes playing in Gm relatively easy.

To be sure, Lindsey's voice overall may have coarsened a bit. It would be very unusual if it hadn't. But he can still blow some serious highs. I don't think he's lost nearly as much range as Stevie did.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Nonsense. If anything, Lindsey has grown as a vocalist throught the years. Listen to the Buckingham Nicks tracks and the white album songs. He sang too high, often sounding a bit shrill. With Tusk his voice seemed to get better. In the song Tusk, he uses that whispering, lower register that is quite fetching. Then with Mirage, he brought that lower-register singing to a new level. For instance, his Elvis impersonation in Oh Diane is one of the reasons the song appeals to me. He does the lower-register stuff again in Big Love, You and I, Part I, Twister and other numbers.

If Lindsey sometimes doesn't sound that good live, it has nothing to do with whether his voice has gotten worse or better. He's just not a great live singer. Period. He has great moments, but often he pushes his voice too high, probably as a result of also having to play the guitar. It may not even be subconscious, but his playing and singing are in competition the whole time he is playing up there. It is tough to strike the right balance of playing, especially when you're doing leads as opposed to rhythm, and singing at the correct register. For instance, as much as I love the Tusk version from the Dance, his voice grates on me a little bit. I wish he'd sing it like the original, but I bet it's very hard to do.

Be that as it may, I seriously doubt the key in The Chain was changed to accommodate Lindsey. Considering Dreams and Landslide were changed for Stevie, the most likely reason for The Chain change is also Stevie's voice. I would bet that is also why Peacekeeper was changed from the original to the SYW version.

They're certainly not changing keys to accommodate Lindsey's guitars. Though to be sure certain keys are easier to play on the guitar than other, key changes for performances are usually because of the vocals. For instance, Peackeeper in Em is a hell of a lot easier to play than in Gm, but that's Gm is what the song was changed to. Of course the use of a capo makes playing in Gm relatively easy.

To be sure, Lindsey's voice overall may have coarsened a bit. It would be very unusual if it hadn't. But he can still blow some serious highs. I don't think he's lost nearly as much range as Stevie did.

I agree with everything you said, Carne. Just listen to ISA from the White Album, then listen to Oh Diane, THEN listen to Steal Your Heart Away; it's amazing how mature his singing has become.

[chiliD]

He recorded "I'm So Afraid" in Gm (which was, by his own admission, not the right key for him to sing)...even that first tour they did together in 1975, he dropped the key to Fm. I'm assuming that's still the key they play it in today...unless he's playing a guitar that has been tuned a full step lower and they're playing it in Ebm

[stefan]

Originally Posted by dissention

I agree with everything you said, Carne. Just listen to ISA from the White Album, then listen to Oh Diane, THEN listen to Steal Your Heart Away; it's amazing how mature his singing has become.

Interesting points guys. Oh Diane and Big love are among my favourites concerning the singing part. But don't forget about the studio opportunities to make things sound better. He may use these recently or did it all the time. Btw I don`t regard this necessarily as something bad. Let's also keep in mind- he is using the voice machines on a lot of tracks for years and years for alteration- so maybe we are simply not used to the pure sound of his voice anymore, maybe he lost some range or is getting coarse- I'm not sure.
I wondered about Lindseys voice too last year after hearing the Today show clips. It seemed he lost it completely. Or listen to the real bad Harrison cover. The same thing is going on in the Madison clips. I think it doesn`t sound good. All these clips were not too good in terms of audio quality- so I`m not sure it is a viable source. As I finally saw him live last year in Oberhausen his voice sounded fine and there was nothing to complain about. The same thing the people said that attended the Today show live.
Anyway I don`t like what I heard from DLMDA- due to the sound file or not. Red rover seems to be the best addition. And IKINW- the dadadadada part is a great idea- like that.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by stefan

And IKINW- the dadadadada part is a great idea- like that.

Agreed. It's an old idea. Already done in the early sketches of the song on the remasters' bonus disk.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by David

It's too bad they dropped "DLMDA" because that is such a showcase for Lindsey's wicked guitar work. But dropping it (like Stevie refusing to put "Long Distance Winner" in her 1998 set list) seems yet another nail in the coffin of the CD release of "Buckingham Nicks."

I think you're on to it there.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Keith

Things are becoming less exciting and more real."

One of my favorite passages from Mick's book. How did Stevie know?

But in this crazy world there still is a little bit of sunshine, and today it appeared in a bootleg version of "Sara." Thanks to Mike B. for capturing the music, and bluewhitefire for sharing it.. I've had it on repeat.. "Rhiannon is afoot..." and she still breaks my heart. :-)

Thanks Keith. I'd forgotten that quote. You just gave me my new sig line.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Whaaat!!!? That is the most absurd comment I've read here in a loooooong time. Utter bull****.

Remember Carne, you haven't seen any of the shows. At a few points on Saturday, Mr. Buckingham appeared to be gasping for breath and definitely wasn't able to sing all his high notes. I was about 10 feet from him.

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by Keith

Things are becoming less exciting and more real."

One of my favorite passages from Mick's book. How did Stevie know?

But in this crazy world there still is a little bit of sunshine, and today it appeared in a bootleg version of "Sara." Thanks to Mike B. for capturing the music, and bluewhitefire for sharing it.. I've had it on repeat.. "Rhiannon is afoot..." and she still breaks my heart. :-)

This post made my day. Thank-you.

[EveryHour]

Though I think he's always been a great singer, I agree that Lindsey has matured A LOT vocally. No, he's not able to be technically great onstage, but he sacrifices that for passion, which is certainly fine by me. That way we get to experience both aspects of one Mr. LB vocally. It's true, a lot of artists who have chosen to continue to perform as they age have had to change keys...big deal. They've had to do it because they are human beings. We can except these as the "now" versions, as opposed to automatically deeming them "worse" or "inadequate" versions. We can enjoy them for what they are now, because the only alternative is no FM at all...they can't, afterall, reverse the aging process. I do, however, think it would work EXTREMELY WELL in the band's favor to do a complete overhaul of some of the songs instead of doing versions that can seem pale in comparison to the old ones to those of us who dissect the details. Just as Gypsy worked so much better at AHI '00 done completely acoustically. Ever since the pnemonenon that was MTV's Unplugged, the public at large digs that stuff anyway.