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  #46  
Old 04-18-2005, 02:10 AM
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SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
I don't think Amber and Hillary were so much "defending Stevie's honor," as wondering why the two women need to be compared.
But why was it necessary on a Christine board? If it were on a Fleetwood Mac board, it would be a different story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
Yes, Erica mentioned wondering if perhaps her professor meant "Stevie" when he said "Christine," but it really didn't have to lead into a comparison of the two.
The fact that there was the "oh, you really DON'T mean Stevie" element of surprise on Erica's part in some way set the stage. It's the logical next step in the discussion. It's the "here's why I have a crush on Christine, but not Stevie" explanation that was really bound to follow. Let's be honest, when talking about crushes and Fleetwood Mac, the top two mentioned are Lindsey and Stevie. Chris is often called "the other woman in Fleetwood Mac," and I think that's how a lot of people view her. So it may seem odd to some why they would have the crush on the "plain" woman over the sex symbol. This thread was trying to explain why, and to do that we have to look at the plain vs. the sex symbol.
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Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
From what I read in their posts, all Hillary and Amber were trying to say... which is something I'd think all Christine fans would be on board with... is that Christine does not need to be compared to Stevie in order to be praised or complimented. Nor does Stevie's appeal need to be dissmissed in order for Christine to look good.
And what we're saying is that Stevie doesn't always have to be defended, especially on a Christine McVie board. It was inappropriate to come to Stevie's defense in this particular instance. I appreciate that she's their favorite, but we don't go on the Stevie board and throw a fit every time Stevie's called "the Queen of Rock" or a "rock godess." If this discussion were on the Stevie board or the Fleetwood Mac board, that would be a different story. Furthermore, the twisting of what was said and then making a federal case out of it was pretty unwarranted. I agree that people are entitled to their opinions, but they're also entitled to NOT have their words twisted around so that it appears they said or implied something they did not so that somebody else can win an argument.
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Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
Christine can, and should, stand on her own merits.
And if we want to state all the reasons we love her, we should without somebody coming to Stevie's defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
And if Homer's tired of hearing about Stevie so often on Christine's Forum, he shouldn't take so many opportunities to mention her.
Well, maybe. But in this instance, I don't think he was wrong.
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Last edited by SteveMacD; 04-18-2005 at 02:25 AM..
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  #47  
Old 04-18-2005, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
And if Homer's tired of hearing about Stevie so often on Christine's Forum, he shouldn't take so many opportunities to mention her.
I'm soooo sleepy, and just checked back in, before hitting the hay. If you didn't take Stevie, Stevie, Stevie,....... for Marcia, Marcia, Marcia, well, you need to go study some pop culture, Brian. Where's my football?
And, for the record, I WAS comparing my favorite Mac woman to the one that nearly everyone else raves about. That's my right. And this IS Chris' forum. I NEVER bother anyone on the What's Her Name forum(never even opened it). I literally couldn't care less.
You guys are dorks.
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  #48  
Old 04-18-2005, 11:50 AM
GateandGarden GateandGarden is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD
Amber and Gateandgarden, get real. This whole thread started when somebody's college professor said he had a crush on Christine. The poster even clarified that the professor did in fact mean Christine, not Stevie, which was a surprise to said poster. So, essentially, this is a thread about why some guys have a crush on Christine and not Stevie. And, Homer, being a GUY, is simply expressing why he has a crush on Christine and not Stevie.

Sorry to burst your chiffon bubble, but Stevie is NOT normal. Normal women don't go around in public always wearing chiffon and platforms (or Reeboks with rhinestones glued to them ). Normal women don't have a huge entourage. Normal women wear jeans and sneakers, or slacks and blazers, or dresses. In other words, most women are like Christine, not Stevie. But who cares? Do you think Stevie WANTS to be normal? No, she wants to be a star. She wants to be a recognizable celebrity, and the only way to be THAT is to be different. I mean, Mick is different and is easily recognized while John is normal and could easily get lost in a crowd.

Yes, dream catchers are part of certain people's religions, but not Stevie's. She's gone on record as being a born-again Christian. But, that's not why most people think of her as a fragil, fairy princess type. Stevie has her schtick. She's become this caricature that she created YEARS ago, and a lot of people don't buy it. A lot of people also have issues with her twirling and her song topics, which feed into the caricature (and, please note, I'm not saying I don't like the songs listed, because I like most of them):
Rhiannon
Dreams
Gold Dust Woman
Sisters Of The Moon
Gypsy
Seven Wonders
Paper Doll
Sweet Girl
Illume (9/11)
Running Through The Garden
Bella Donna
Wild Heart
Gate And Garden
Enchanted
Nightbird
Sable On Blond
Beauty And The Beast
Ghosts
Alice
Juliet
Trouble In Shangri-La
Candlebright
Sorcerer
Planets Of The Universe
Bombay Sapphires

While Christine's songs are usually the safest on record, and can be dull, she sings normal, pop love songs. Nothing out of the ordinary. Pretty straight-forward. That's why people can relate to her more on a human level. You'll never see a Christine fan call her "the queen of rock" or refer to her as a "rock godess." Christine is just a normal woman who was asked to join her buddy's blues band, then fell into Fleetwood Mac, and then fell into rock stardom. Christine didn't ask for any of it. She's the antithesis of a rock star. She's one of us, and happened to get lucky. Stevie is almost like a diva. I think she's too nice a person and cares too much about her fans to be called a diva, but she does have that superstar quality about her. She is/was the superstar and the sex symbol of Fleetwood Mac. Christine was just the cute girl next door.

In any event, if you don't want to know why some guys prefer Christine over Stevie, then ignore a thread called "Crush" on the Christine board. You chiffon heads can be so insecure if somebody says they prefer ANYBODY over Stevie.
I'm not going to argue with everything here because I agree with some of what you've said. BUT, I don't see how you can call me or Amber "chiffonheads," considering we both criticize Stevie openly. Or maybe I don't understand exactly what a chiffonhead is. Maybe I don't have to be crazy to be a chiffonhead. Nevertheless, I don't really appreciate it being used in a derogatory way (sp?) to categorize me. About Stevie being normal, I agree that in comparison to the average person she is not normal, but she is normal for a superstar, in my opinion. She is also normal for a rich person. She owns some things that some of us consider unnecessary or even tacky, but don't most people with lots of money? You said that she's different, and she has to be in order to be famous. But does being different making someone abnormal? I don't think so.

I think you misread me when you say that I'm upset because someone prefers Christine over Stevie. I feel like you're not reading my posts very thoroughly. But, I will give you this--it is unfair of me to fault Homie for bringing Stevie into when Stevie was in it from the first post. I let that slip my mind--you're right.

About the song list...lots of people have creative bones in their bodies. Lots of people are even more "out there" (sorry that this is overused by me at this point) than Stevie is. What do those songs prove? That she's capable of using metaphors? Imagery? That makes her a writer. That doesn't really make her abnormal, IMO.

Oh yeah, and my name's Hillary. It's in my sig.
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  #49  
Old 04-18-2005, 11:52 AM
GateandGarden GateandGarden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerMcvie
But Steven, these opinions aren't allowed in the Chiffonese world. They simply will not TOLERATE any opinion other than pure Stevie worship. Even a mild comparison, with Stevie not being the more enamored, ruffles their feathers into a Chiffonese tizzy. Why they frequent Chris' forum, with their obvious biases, is beyond me.
I don't agree with any of this stuff about 'not tolerating any opinion other than Stevie worship.' I've admitted that I was wrong about some of the things I said, but, like Steven, I don't think you're really reading my posts, either.

EDIT: And another thing, I frequent Chris' forum because I love her, her voice, her style, her beauty, and on and on...not because of what you said.
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  #50  
Old 04-18-2005, 11:57 AM
GateandGarden GateandGarden is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD
I never said that you or anybody else is weird. (You're still sounding insecure, BTW.) Abnormal, for me, is not at all weird. 'Twould be a boring world without the eccentrics.
Okay, well, you and Homie appear to disagree there. You say that Stevie is not weird, just abnormal because she's not like the rest of us plain folk. Earlier, Homie said that Stevie is. 'Tis me being nit-picky, though.

And this is not relevant to what I just said, really, but why are Amber and I being persecuted for defending Stevie here? I would defend Christine in an instant if I saw someone putting her down in the Stevie forum.

I don't know why you're painting me and Amber as people who live in fantasy worlds, because I think we're both "real" people.
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  #51  
Old 04-18-2005, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by amber
And you're saying we shouldn't look at Chris's forum, cause we like Stevie? that's so dumb, we like Chris and Stevie. And, if I'm not mistaken, Hillary really likes Chris. seriously, you're cracking me up right now!
Sorry that I'm being repetitive but I'm just now going through all of these posts. Amber's right about me. (Hence the lovely Stevie & Chris banner that Mikki made me). Stevie was my first love from the Mac but I fell in love with Christine last summer when I got all into her Mirage songs, particularly "Only Over You," which no one but me likes. I don't know why my devotion to her is in question.
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  #52  
Old 04-18-2005, 12:01 PM
GateandGarden GateandGarden is offline
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Originally Posted by amber
Seriously, you're high. Anyone who likes Chris, or anyone at all, can come here. Get a grip, you do not own the Chris forum. And I encourage you to read back. I never said anything bad about Chris. Thank you, that is all.
Agreed.

But I think we should start a thread about Stevie in her forum, and then let it develop into something all about Chris.
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  #53  
Old 04-18-2005, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GateandGarden
Agreed.

But I think we should start a thread about Stevie in her forum, and then let it develop into something all about Chris.

I guess that's fair. But most Stevie threads go off topic anyway, so no skin off my nose.
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  #54  
Old 04-18-2005, 12:12 PM
GateandGarden GateandGarden is offline
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Originally Posted by amber

I guess that's fair. But most Stevie threads go off topic anyway, so no skin off my nose.
True, true. It's just arguing, flirting, and sexual inneudendo (sp?--I can't spell today) instead of Christine McVie.
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  #55  
Old 04-18-2005, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GateandGarden
I'm not going to argue with everything here because I agree with some of what you've said. BUT, I don't see how you can call me or Amber "chiffonheads," considering we both criticize Stevie openly. Or maybe I don't understand exactly what a chiffonhead is. Maybe I don't have to be crazy to be a chiffonhead.
Well, again, it's just a term that is used to describe Stevie die-hards. A chiffonhead is to Stevie what a Deadhead is to the Grateful Dead. You don't have to be crazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GateandGarden
About Stevie being normal, I agree that in comparison to the average person she is not normal, but she is normal for a superstar, in my opinion. She is also normal for a rich person. She owns some things that some of us consider unnecessary or even tacky, but don't most people with lots of money? You said that she's different, and she has to be in order to be famous. But does being different making someone abnormal? I don't think so.
Okay, I think I see where the difference is. You're talking more about Stevie the person, where we're talking about Stevie the persona. I agree that compared to most celeberties, she's normal. However, Christine is normal in comparison to the average person, hence why people refer to Christine as being normal, regular, real, etc. What we're saying is that Christine is one of us. I could totally picture running into Christine at the grocery store. Stevie, not so much. By all accounts, Stevie ALWAYS had that superstar quality. She was even prom queen. To us a "That '70s Show" analogy, Christine is to Donna what Stevie is to Jackie. Incidentally, I still say the tackiest thing I've seen Stevie with in recent times is that plastic singing fish!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GateandGarden
I think you misread me when you say that I'm upset because someone prefers Christine over Stevie. I feel like you're not reading my posts very thoroughly. But, I will give you this--it is unfair of me to fault Homie for bringing Stevie into when Stevie was in it from the first post. I let that slip my mind--you're right.
And, that is what I had the issue with, more than anything. Keep in mind that I have been a part of the Fleetwood Mac on-line community for about ten years and have seen certain patterns over that time. One, the biggest snobs, truth be told, are the Peter Green-only fans. If Pete's not on it, it's got cooties. Second, most people have some type of issue with Mick. Of course, I still say the band was better off when he was the manager. Over 25 million albums sold can't be wrong! And third, whenever somebody says something about Stevie that is not complimentary, there will always be a Stevie fan to come to her defense, no matter how minor what was actually said, and another to give the "you go girl" supportive response. So, after nearly a decade, many of us have taken to assuming certain things here and there. Maybe we're assuming correctly, maybe not. And, let's be honest, what Homer said was pretty minor. Look at the first reply to said post. In any event, I just thought it funny that people would critique a GUY for explaining why some GUYS have a crush on Christine. His answer was honest, and was fairly common. It's not the first time I've heard that comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GateandGarden
About the song list...lots of people have creative bones in their bodies. Lots of people are even more "out there" (sorry that this is overused by me at this point) than Stevie is. What do those songs prove? That she's capable of using metaphors? Imagery? That makes her a writer. That doesn't really make her abnormal, IMO.
But her use of metaphores and imagry is lost on a lot of people. WE get it, but then WE're fans. Yes, there are even more out there writers, but they are often not in a situation where they're getting equal time with two other songwriters. In the context of Fleetwood Mac, where she was working with writers who wrote about issues that were pretty straight-forward, her songs can sound silly to the unanointed. Here's a love song, here's an angry song, here's a song about a witch/gypsy/bird...you get my point. In that context, Christine almost always comes out as the normal one.
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Last edited by SteveMacD; 04-18-2005 at 01:11 PM..
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  #56  
Old 04-18-2005, 01:24 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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We've got to get you off that Arbor Mist. I need to introduce you to Kentucky bourbon.
u guys are pro drinkers! u would drink me under the table with that stuff
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  #57  
Old 04-18-2005, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GateandGarden
I agree on all accounts.

I also think it discredits Christine to a degree to compare her to Stevie. I think you are inadvertently doing to her what has been done to her by countless others since the 70s. It's almost as though Christine needs to be compared to Stevie, like she can't ecape that, even with those who love her. She will always be "the other one," and if you have to use Stevie to prove that there's something special about Christine, well is she really so special, then? Let Christine stand alone.

When Stevie said of her, "You'll go on forever--you're that good," she didn't add, "You're so good that you're way better than me," she just left it at that. That was enough.

haha!! great one
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  #58  
Old 04-18-2005, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by amber

I guess that's fair. But most Stevie threads go off topic anyway, so no skin off my nose.
Actually, just about ALL threads go off topic.
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  #59  
Old 04-18-2005, 01:55 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Here's my opinion for what its worth.

Who cares what board we are in when the conversation morph's into a Stevie/Christine discussion. I like talking about Stevie Nicks in comparison to Christine and vice versa. All these topics go off subject all the time.
I love Christine McVie and I like Stevie Nicks and I don't give a rats ass who thinks what about them. I don't find the need to defend McVie because she's solid. As for Stevie, she gets a lot more credit because she has that American Dollface and her songs had the Janis Joplin "light up the stage" type singing. Both woman are very happy with their lives. Christine never wanted fame, just money. Stevie wanted both money and fame. Both have written fantastic and bad music. Both deserve every penny they got. Both helped each other survive in the music world. B&N would have flopped and FMac would have eventually disbanded after a solid showing of 10 or so albums. (probably)

Everything else is personal preference. I never find the need to attack someone else's opinion, just the need to disagree or agree. Everything else after that is just pushing buttons.

And Johnny Stew, you need to stare at ur Stevie Nicks poster for 2 more hours today for getting involved!
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  #60  
Old 04-18-2005, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by amber

so no skin off my nose.
As the man who'd just been circumcised said!

Gail
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