When were these taken?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Isn't it ironic that Chris and John found a way to still love each other, and Lindsey and Old Goatsy have hated each other's guts for 50 years?

McVies: Humble middle class backgrounds. Had been in serious long-term relationships before becoming a couple. Music was a trade and both were initially background players. Their respective careers and their personal relationship existed independently of one another before becoming intertwined when Christine joined. John was an adult who took ownership of the collapse of the marriage. Not the first time his alcoholism got the better of him.

Buckingham Nicks: Rich kids who wanted to be stars. Personal relationship and music careers were enmeshed from the moment Keith scouted them. The only thing that stood out with Fritz was the harmonies. Lindsey was the bass player. Every subsequent career development they made was together, until “Belladonna.” They needed each other, though neither wants to admit it, and have spent the last 45 years trying to prove that they were the reason for their success. In other words, jealousy and resentment.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

McVies: Humble middle class backgrounds. Had been in serious long-term relationships before becoming a couple. Music was a trade and both were initially background players. Their respective careers and their personal relationship existed independently of one another before becoming intertwined when Christine joined. John was an adult who took ownership of the collapse of the marriage. Not the first time his alcoholism got the better of him.

Buckingham Nicks: Rich kids who wanted to be stars. Personal relationship and music careers were enmeshed from the moment Keith scouted them. The only thing that stood out with Fritz was the harmonies. Lindsey was the bass player. Every subsequent career development they made was together, until “Belladonna.” They needed each other, though neither wants to admit it, and have spent the last 45 years trying to prove that they were the reason for their success. In other words, jealousy and resentment.

That's a really good analysis. I was recently listening to an old Stevie interview how she was explaining how her and Lindsey were lured away from Fritz. I believe she said she was not that happy about it because she thought the band was quite good.
I think Lindsey is more a peace about it today than Stevie. However during the earlier days when she went solo I think it really bothered him.
Lindsey's Behind The Music segment was filmed shortly have the Out Of The Cradle mini tour. Most of those segments end on positive notes. His was sad because he came forth with the frustration how he was not making it as a solo artist. The tour was not successful and the narrator was even asking the question why he could make Mac music hits but could not make it as a solo artist. It really hurt and bothered him.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

J and C definitely found ways to love each other. but to me the main difference in the relationships of those 2 couples lies in the fact that it seemed Stevie and LB always seemed to find something in the other that just worked their nerves, something that irritated them. Imo the true, deep, close friendship and compatibility that J/C had was nonexistent w S/L. J/C were far more able to forgive each other for past hurts and just move on to the better place of 'the present'... 'we adore each other NOW, we appreciate the relationship we have NOW.' S/L seemed to keep rehashing the issues of the past to the point that their NOW was never a great place to be...

-Lis

It's childish on both their parts, I think. Because I truly think they love pushing each other's buttons, seeing the other one get mad.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

It's lovely that in that pic, from Lindsey through to John there's a physical contact from one member to the other.. it's not forced but it's erm, a chain...

The Chain came to mind for me as well.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

It's childish on both their parts, I think. Because I truly think they love pushing each other's buttons, seeing the other one get mad.

I think perhaps ego played into the equation differently between Stevie and Lindsey in multiple ways. Sure, J+C had healthy egos, but in a different kind of way. J+C were both talented musicians and were secure in their ability. I think both of them played music because they loved it first, it was less about the spotlight and fame. John didn't write songs, so they didn't have to compete or feel like they had to compete with each other in that arena.

There always was and always will be a valley of separation between Lindsey and Stevie in the respect that Stevie was all about making the splash and achieving fame, while Lindsey always made decisions from the artists point of view first. Lindsey was a guitar maniac on stage, while it was Stevie's vocals and appearance on stage that drew attention. They were both amazing songwriters and perhaps that's the one area that provides the least amount of resentment (beyond some of the sharp lyrics they've directed at each other over the decades)

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

I think perhaps ego played into the equation differently between Stevie and Lindsey in multiple ways. Sure, J+C had healthy egos, but in a different kind of way. J+C were both talented musicians and were secure in their ability. I think both of them played music because they loved it first, it was less about the spotlight and fame. John didn't write songs, so they didn't have to compete or feel like they had to compete with each other in that arena.

There always was and always will be a valley of separation between Lindsey and Stevie in the respect that Stevie was all about making the splash and achieving fame, while Lindsey always made decisions from the artists point of view first. Lindsey was a guitar maniac on stage, while it was Stevie's vocals and appearance on stage that drew attention. They were both amazing songwriters and perhaps that's the one area that provides the least amount of resentment (beyond some of the sharp lyrics they've directed at each other over the decades)

I wouldn't call Old Goatsy an amazing songwriter. I mean, she doesn't really write the music, other than plonking out her F and G chords. SOMEBODY ELSE turns it into magic.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I wouldn't call Old Goatsy an amazing songwriter. I mean, she doesn't really write the music, other than plonking out her F and G chords. SOMEBODY ELSE turns it into magic.

She's an elaborate arranger that sometimes writes songs on the harp.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

She's an elaborate arranger that sometimes writes songs on the harp.

Elaborate arranger?

$he's lucky if $he can still tie her shoelaces!

Elaborate arranger.....

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I wouldn't call Old Goatsy an amazing songwriter. I mean, she doesn't really write the music, other than plonking out her F and G chords. SOMEBODY ELSE turns it into magic.

I hear what you're saying, the majority of her output has heavily relied on others to mold into something. She definitely doesn't have that sense of melody that folks like McCartney or Brian Wilson are praised for.

[Villavic]

I have read, probably here but not sure, that the Sara 3/10/79 Version 8:48 minutes included in the Tusk Deluxe (and Expanded) was not recorded by Fleetwood Mac, it was a demo she brought to the band. If that is correct, does anybody know who arranged it?

[David]

Originally Posted by Villavic

I have read, probably here but not sure, that the Sara 3/10/79 Version 8:48 minutes included in the Tusk Deluxe (and Expanded) was not recorded by Fleetwood Mac, it was a demo she brought to the band. If that is correct, does anybody know who arranged it?

Tom Moncrieff probably laid it all out in demo form. There’s a Q&A with Tom on the Penguin. He’s the guy who wrote the music to “Gold and Braid.”

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

She's an elaborate arranger that sometimes writes songs on the harp.

Harpy

She has always been a storm...
cawing her lamentations in the eerie trees.

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

McVies: Humble middle class backgrounds. Had been in serious long-term relationships before becoming a couple. Music was a trade and both were initially background players. Their respective careers and their personal relationship existed independently of one another before becoming intertwined when Christine joined. John was an adult who took ownership of the collapse of the marriage. Not the first time his alcoholism got the better of him.

Buckingham Nicks: Rich kids who wanted to be stars. Personal relationship and music careers were enmeshed from the moment Keith scouted them. The only thing that stood out with Fritz was the harmonies. Lindsey was the bass player. Every subsequent career development they made was together, until “Belladonna.” They needed each other, though neither wants to admit it, and have spent the last 45 years trying to prove that they were the reason for their success. In other words, jealousy and resentment.

I don't think John was from a middle-class background. Looking at public-domain records on a genealogy website I use, his father, Reginald, was a 17 year-old grocer's assistant in 1939 in Ealing, living with his widowed mother. His grandfather, also John McVie, seems to have been working in a factory in 1921. I'm not sure what Reginald ended up doing, but it sounds more of a working class background to me, unlike Mick's.

[Villavic]

Egos may be present in anybody. High class, mid class, city people, town people, country people, anywhere. I've seen it. And another factor was what Christine said in 1997 about the time they broke up (C&J): we actually didn’t talk at all. Stevie and Lindsey didn’t get along very well either, but they used to fight… …specially when they were writing songs together… John and I did not write songs together, and we did not talk. Period.

Mick included a good example of what would be the seeds of the endless resentment and fighting between those two:

Suppose Lindsey wasn't playing well on a particular song or something," she (SN) said. "As his girlfriend, I should be a comfort to him, right? You know: 'Who cares about it? You're great anyway!' I mean, that's what old ladies do for their men, right? But I couldn't, because I was also frustrated and saying, 'Look, if you could just get your guitar part tight, we could put the vocal on.' I'd be pissed off at him too. There was no way we could get any comfort from each other about what went on in the band. There was no love, because everybody was too nervous. And while we were traveling all the time, none of us had other friends to talk to...."

And yes the I wanna be a star was another spicy condiment, too.

Stevie has also said that the relationship between her and Lindsey was already a bit rocky when they joined the band. As Stevie started to express herself more, as she became a star, things didn't get any better.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Egos may be present in anybody. High class, mid class, city people, town people, country people, anywhere. I've seen it. And another factor was what Christine said in 1997 about the time they broke up (C&J): we actually didn’t talk at all. Stevie and Lindsey didn’t get along very well either, but they used to fight… …specially when they were writing songs together… John and I did not write songs together, and we did not talk. Period.

Mick included a good example of what would be the seeds of the endless resentment and fighting between those two:

Suppose Lindsey wasn't playing well on a particular song or something," she (SN) said. "As his girlfriend, I should be a comfort to him, right? You know: 'Who cares about it? You're great anyway!' I mean, that's what old ladies do for their men, right? But I couldn't, because I was also frustrated and saying, 'Look, if you could just get your guitar part tight, we could put the vocal on.' I'd be pissed off at him too. There was no way we could get any comfort from each other about what went on in the band. There was no love, because everybody was too nervous. And while we were traveling all the time, none of us had other friends to talk to...."

And yes the I wanna be a star was another spicy condiment, too.

Stevie has also said that the relationship between her and Lindsey was already a bit rocky when they joined the band. As Stevie started to express herself more, as she became a star, things didn't get any better.

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