Who are the most talented members of Fleetwood Mac?

[tuigirl]

Last thing I wanted to do was to start a humungous arguement...guess it's my kiwi attitude coming through...seems like there's more to FM than whether Stevie can play an instrument or not, which was what I was trying to point out before......stay cool..xxx

[Rumours]

My answer:
They are ALL the most talented, because they are talented in their own ways.

Stevie cannot play instruments that well.....She knows it.....We know it......She has said "I have no idea what I'm doing". She bangs away at the piano and has no idea what she's playing......BUT, it's enough to get by and write her songs. Same thing with the guitar, it's enough to get by and write her songs. She can and does contribute on some songs with these instruments (not so much of Fleetwood Mac's songs, but her solo songs) and it does not sound bad. But she is not in Fleetwood Mac for her playing abilities (they don't need her to be able to play) and she has a band for her solo stuff as well. She fiddles, and it's amazing to me that she is able to write these great songs, when she really can't play these instruments that well. Her TALENT lies in her songwriting abilities and the connection that it makes with people, and her TALENT lies in her stage presence and the production and drama she puts on, and yes, in my opinion, her TALENT is also in her voice......while she does not sing like she used to (not many performers DO sound like they did THIRTY freaking years ago), she can still captivate MANY with her singing and over-all performance, myself included.

Lindsey's TALENT is in his unbelievable guitar playing, and his producing abilities. This is how HE captivates audiences. Lindsey is never going to give us a big production and drama on stage. Yes, his playing is jaw-dropping as far as I'm concerned, that's how he spellbinds people. Stevie does it in a different way. Lindsey's voice isn't like it used to be either. Will I say it's bad? No. But it is different. His major role in this band is not to be the greatest, most in-tune, most powerful, most beautiful singer--they don't have him for that.

Christine, INCREDIBLY TALENTED, probably because she is a trained musician, on the piano and keyboards. Vocally, you can liken her to the way heaven would sound!!! She sends chills through you with her voice. She's a wonderful writer of beautiful love songs. This is how SHE connects with people's live. Her TALENT. And she's the more down to earth one, everybody feels they could have as their good friend, to sit and shoot the breeze with. But Christine never has and never will have a jaw-dropping ability on the guitar or any other instrument, ability to produce, or EVER have a stage presence like Stevie had & still has. The band doesn't have Christine for these purposes. I totally agree with the statement about Chris being a cold fish on stage. She looks even bored and so totally not in the moment at times. Like "ok, are we done yet?".

Mick is one of the finest drummers I've ever heard. And someone was talking about the WAY that he drums. He is always like behind everyone else I guess you would say, he drums on the off-beat, that is his technique. This is his TALENT. He's unique. He's crazy!! It is also, I believe, actually some type of a learning disability, the fact that Mick plays something a certain way and then is susequently unable to exactly duplicate it again. He has said that he always had disabilities, even when he was a child and in school.
Mick is also the glue that has held (or at least tried to hold) everyone together, the permanent fixture, of the band.

John......Mick is right when he says "You're a monster, John". That's HIS TALENT in this band......monster pumping driving bass. But he can't write, never has. Doesn't produce, never has. Haven't seen him play an other instrument besides bass. And you forget about him, because he almost just disappears into the background. If ever there was a member of this band that had the LEAST amount of stage presence......it's John. But they don't have to have him putting on a big show, or writing anything profound, and singing--well, I still swear I never did hear him on Say You Love Me on The Dance tour, and I'm not sure I want to hear him sing, and I'm not real sure he can. But, they've had plenty of singers throughout the years. These things are not his talent.

Obviously, this is MY (in no way anyone else's) favorite incarnation. But Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwin, Bob Welch, Rick Vito (tears it up in concert, by the way), Billy Burnette......all great musicians and/or songwriters in their own right. Just not that big of a connection with as many people.....and not with me.

But nobody is talented at everything! To attack any of the members of this band, or to say that they have no talent or basically suck and have nothing, just because they're stronger in some aspects over other aspects is just nuts.

There are so many other things I could touch on here. No I don't think Letterman was anti-Stevie. Yeah, he poked fun here & there, but nothing was ever anti-Stevie, I hate Stevie, whatever. His beef was with the management. And they most certainly do not reflect anything about the artists themselves! Are you kidding me!??!!! Obviously, if that company represented what Stevie really was, wouldn't she still have them?? And does she? NO! She got rid of them. And why would Letterman joke about her being his "ex-wife" and have her on his show so much. He loves her! Anti-Stevie?? I just don't get that one.....

Why should Stevie need to reinvent herself? It's not her. The way she is now is how she's always been and it's her. You want her to not be her anymore? Wow, my post has gotten incredibly too long! Sorry folks!! I'll just end it here saying posters like TheTower, jwd, Johnny Stew.....are right on with all of their comments!!

Stephanie

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by tuigirl
Last thing I wanted to do was to start a humungous arguement...guess it's my kiwi attitude coming through...seems like there's more to FM than whether Stevie can play an instrument or not, which was what I was trying to point out before......stay cool..xxx

We've also extensively discussed Mick's abilities.

[baugh]

my list of most talented:
1. lindsay buckingham
2. peter green
3. john mcvie
4. christine mcvie]
5. mick fleetwood
6. bob welch
7. stevie nicks

lindsay carried the band in the mid 70's early 80's.
as far as Stevie goes, sitting in your room high and righting lyrics, well, anyone could come up w/ something interesting.... GOD lets finally give McVie some credit.... solid bass....

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

as far as Stevie goes, sitting in your room high and righting lyrics, well, anyone could come up w/ something interesting

Go on then mastermind....astound us with something if anyone could come up with something interesting!!! That is one heck of a sweeping statement with absolutely no substance....

Pip

[FiercestCalmSea]

That comment about being high and writing songs was a little bit much...obviously you haven't listened to all the songs she has written since she has been sober...still an amazing songwriter if you ask me...Seems to me she wasn't doing all that much coke way back when she wrote Landslide..which is one of her most prolific and enduring songs...anyone who thinks being high makes you some sort of poetic genius is sadly mistaken...drugs merely provide you with a false and temporary sense of emotion...Stevie has written a good lot of the Fleetwood Mac gems,and it was fueled by the way she sees things..always dramatic,etc...that is something you possess,it has nothing to do with what you are ingesting into your body

[bjk3047]

Last thing I wanted to do was to start a humungous arguement...guess it's my kiwi attitude coming through
You didn't start an argument of any proportion. You just misunderstood the proceedings.
...seems like there's more to FM than whether Stevie can play an instrument or not, which was what I was trying to point out before......
What's the title of this thread? Who are the most *talented members* of Fleetwood Mac. The title was not "How significant are members' contributions to Fleetwood Mac". I know I'm gonna get bashed for this next statement...Someone who can write and sing is inherently not as talented as someone who can write, sing, and play an instrument.
stay cool..xxx
I was never anything less than cool as a cumcumber
-Brian

[baugh]

may of been a bit harsh about my statements about Stevie... but if it wasn't for Lindsay (from a Fleetwood Mac stance) she would have a sheet of lyrics and thats it. Being that the thread is titled MOST TALENTED how can one NOT place her under her bandmates. She writes(great lyrics) bangs a tamborine and plays piano for demo purposes.... I'm talking w/ the Mac. I know all you Stevie fans don't agree but lets be logical. Maybe see does write/arrange music scores like Lindsey and CHristine, but I have never heard of it w/ the Mac. Just my thoughts, thats all they are. So don't get in tizzy over it.......PROGRESS......

[Jo and Jensen]

Originally posted by CarneVaca

Stevie? She wrote about six great songs in the 70s. But she hasn't done anything brilliant since Bella Donna. The idea that she could play keys with the band on stage is just comical. I'm not even sure she can play the piano with both hands. She herself has admitted that she "tic tacs" on the piano. I've followed this band for a long time, and it gets a little tiring to keep seeing the perpetuation of the Myth of Stevie Nicks. She was great early on, but now she is anything but.

We haven't been here in a while, but as far as Stevie's musical abilities...all you have to do is listen to her demos to hear her greatness. She CAN play piano and guitar. Sure, she isn't playing on stage or whatever, but she writes her songs and the basic melody and rhytm. Listen to the demo for "Sisters of the Moon", for example, and you hear Stevie playing the parts on piano that Lindsey later recreates with his guitar. She's got it all there, down to his solo! :-)
So, she doesn't like playing in front of people on a stage. That doesn't mean she isn't good at piano or guitar.

As for the question: musically- Lindsey and John; lyrically- Stevie.

Love,
Jo and Jensen

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

but if it wasn't for Lindsay (from a Fleetwood Mac stance) she would have a sheet of lyrics and thats it.

Well she seemed to manage without Lindsey for her solo stuff.

Pip

[blinker12]

This reminds me of a situation where there are 4 white guys and one black guy in an office. The black guy slacks off and doesn't do his job so he's fired. Then he turns around and sues for discrimination. Hey buddy, this has nothing to do with discrimination, you weren't doing your job!!

Whoa. I don't see how the scenario you describe has ANY relation to our debate about Stevie Nicks's talent. No one is claiming Stevie is being discriminated against because she is a woman, or blonde, or based on any other physical characteristic. And in any case, those arguments would not hold water in a band where there is already another blonde woman whose talent is not questioned.
We're debating Stevie's talent on its own merits, not as it relates to her appearance.
Incidentally: In any situation where there is one black man _ surrounded by white men _ who is fired, it's not unreasonable to look into the possibility of discrimination. I'm not saying discrimination is always or even usually going to be at play, but it's not illegitimate to consider the possibility.

[CarneVaca]

Damn, so much to reply to!

From Baugh: "May of been a bit harsh about my statements about Stevie... but if it wasn't for Lindsay (from a Fleetwood Mac stance) she would have a sheet of lyrics and thats it. Being that the thread is titled MOST TALENTED how can one NOT place her under her bandmates."

I don't think you were overly harsh at all. If that's how you feel, then go ahead and say it. If the Stevie apologists don't like it, they can have their say. I absolutely agree with your assessment: Fleetwood Mac would NOT have gained the popularity it did without Lindsey. Though Stevie, because she was beautiful and had an interesting stage persona, grabbed most of the attention, it was Lindsey's sheer arranging and producing genius that made Fleetwood what it was. All you have to do is watch the Making or Rumours and the other video about the making of Tusk to know that the Fleetwood Mac sound was (and is again) the Lindsey sound. Make no mistake about that.

Jo and Jensen: "Listen to the demo for "Sisters of the Moon", for example, and you hear Stevie playing the parts on piano that Lindsey later recreates with his guitar. She's got it all there, down to his solo! :-)
So, she doesn't like playing in front of people on a stage. That doesn't mean she isn't good at piano or guitar."

I haven't listened to the demo in question, though I find it extremely hard to believe that Stevie gave Lindsey a solo to play. Perhaps I am mistaken here. As for her playing, she's been tacking away at the piano and plucking strings at the guitar for 30 years or so. I would expect that she can play a few chords and notes. But to say she "can" play is an exaggeration.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Why does it have to be pointed out that one person is better than another. I think we have to remember here that they all compliment each other. The sound would not and is not complete without the 5 ( In my opinion anyway)

Just one thing though....If Lindsey is the be all and end all of Fleetwood mac and made them the success they are then why did he not mirror that with his solo career. Even the die-hard Lindsey fans have to admit that Stevie is the most popular member with her solo career. Mind you I think Lindsey reclusive behavior has alot to do with that too. This isn't me bashing Lindsey....I think he is a genius...it is just an observation

Pip

[Bella Figura]

CarneVaca, please go and download the Sister of the Moon demo, Lindsey did do a great job in the final production on the song but I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the demo...and while you're at it, get Stevie's TISL demo's as well especially the Love Is demo, and you'll see how she has grown over the years into a full fledged musician...Love Is is a perfect example of how she no longer just "plucks" at the piano...you too, Baugh!!

[CarneVaca]

Gypsy-Rhiannon: "Why does it have to be pointed out that one person is better than another."

Well, the thread is about "most talented." I prefer Lindsey for his talents and skills, and for what he has contributed to the band. In my opinion, his contribution has been to create the Fleetwood Mac sound we all know and love. In his solo work he has opted to be more experimental and therefore come up with a new sound. That his solo work wasn't as popular certainly had to do with name recognition. "Buckingham" is not as easy to put with the face as Stevie Nicks is. His stage persona was not being photographed and discussed constantly. In early concert footage, he seems to be further back in the stage as opposed to his more upfront presence in the Dance.

Bella Figura: "CarneVaca, please go and download the Sister of the Moon demo, Lindsey did do a great job in the final production on the song but I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the demo...and while you're at it, get Stevie's TISL demo's as well especially the Love Is demo..."

I am going to take your word for it. If Stevie banged out the guitar solo notes on the piano first, OK, I accept that. It is surprising, however. As for listening to demos, thanks for the suggestion, but I find them endlessly boring. I really don't like demos. I listened to the Trouble in Shangri-La stuff and I couldn't get into it. So getting a demo for one of the songs is not likely to get my attention either.

I started out liking Fleetwood Mac because of Stevie Nicks. However, through the years my interest in music changed, and I started to understand the genius of Lindsey Buckingham. When I started really listening to Tusk, it was a huge revelation. I got it! I saw what he was going for.

As for Stevie, starting with Rock A Little, I decided she had given all she could. There was nothing left. Yet I still bought the albums that followed, only to be disappointed. Her only solo album I still listen to is Bella Donna. I simply cannot stand her voice now. There has been some disagreement about her voice on this board. To me, it does not sound good. Add to that the fact that her lyrics became rather cliched and unimaginative, and I couldn't keep listening.