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  #1  
Old 11-18-2023, 08:16 AM
Mr Scarrott Mr Scarrott is offline
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Default Peter Green era memorabilia auction

Some interesting lots up for sale, courtesy of Clifford Davis/Adams

https://hansonslive.hansonsauctionee...+mac&xclosed=1


I'm not sure they're going to "stun the world" as this hyperbolic blurb on the auctioneers' website puts it, but there you go.

https://hansonsauctioneers.co.uk/uni...ld-at-auction/
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  #2  
Old 11-18-2023, 11:26 AM
Penguin Emeritus Penguin Emeritus is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott View Post
Some interesting lots up for sale, courtesy of Clifford Davis/Adams

https://hansonslive.hansonsauctionee...+mac&xclosed=1


I'm not sure they're going to "stun the world" as this hyperbolic blurb on the auctioneers' website puts it, but there you go.

https://hansonsauctioneers.co.uk/uni...ld-at-auction/
I don't think it will stun the world either lol but that stuff is interesting for Mac fans. love peter's letter...'Jews are such worriers you know'

And I'd read somewhere about that postcard from John from Hawaii where he said, 'good luck w the new band', guess he did have an idea what was going on w the 'new/fake' fleetwood mac? I wonder if at that time he just thought he was done... marriage was in bad shape, seemed to be enjoying Hawaii. 'Going swimming a lot. Desperately trying to get fit!' wonder if that was a reference to the alcohol problem as well, or just trying to shed a few pounds. not that he was overweight back then. Anyway...interesting stuff.

--Lis
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Old 11-18-2023, 12:30 PM
Mr Scarrott Mr Scarrott is offline
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I don't think it will stun the world either lol but that stuff is interesting for Mac fans. love peter's letter...'Jews are such worriers you know'

And I'd read somewhere about that postcard from John from Hawaii where he said, 'good luck w the new band', guess he did have an idea what was going on w the 'new/fake' fleetwood mac? I wonder if at that time he just thought he was done... marriage was in bad shape, seemed to be enjoying Hawaii. 'Going swimming a lot. Desperately trying to get fit!' wonder if that was a reference to the alcohol problem as well, or just trying to shed a few pounds. not that he was overweight back then. Anyway...interesting stuff.

--Lis
Oh, good spot Lis!

The postcard is postmarked 16 November, but it must be 1973- the last date on the Mystery to Me tour was 4 November 1973 if this is to be believed

https://www.setlist.fm/stats/concert...html?year=1973

I've snipped and saved that postcard image.

A bit of evidence in Clifford's favour, isn't it?

"Hope everything goes OK with new band."

So Weston was fired on or shortly after 4 November 1973 and now this...
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Old 11-18-2023, 10:54 PM
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Oh, good spot Lis!

The postcard is postmarked 16 November, but it must be 1973- the last date on the Mystery to Me tour was 4 November 1973 if this is to be believed

https://www.setlist.fm/stats/concert...html?year=1973

I've snipped and saved that postcard image.

A bit of evidence in Clifford's favour, isn't it?

"Hope everything goes OK with new band."

So Weston was fired on or shortly after 4 November 1973 and now this...
I was thinking it was 73 also. the end of that year was really a disaster. And yes, I believe Clifford Davis has always maintained that FM knew (or maybe at least Mick and John?) about the fake band... maybe Bob welch was in the dark about it? I think somebody asked him about that in his Q&A but i can't remember what he said...

--Lis
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Old 11-21-2023, 05:56 PM
zoork_1 zoork_1 is offline
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Thanks for sharing...
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Old 11-22-2023, 03:13 AM
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I’m now convinced the whole Fake Mac thing was a publicity stunt.

What better way to get the band much needed attention than their manager putting a fake band together?

Cliff had other business interests, so maybe he wanted to unload Fleetwood Mac because it took up too much time while the band knew being based in the United States was key to their long term viability.
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Old 11-22-2023, 08:05 AM
WalkAThinLine. WalkAThinLine. is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott View Post
Some interesting lots up for sale, courtesy of Clifford Davis/Adams

https://hansonslive.hansonsauctionee...+mac&xclosed=1


I'm not sure they're going to "stun the world" as this hyperbolic blurb on the auctioneers' website puts it, but there you go.

https://hansonsauctioneers.co.uk/uni...ld-at-auction/
The first link lists a gold sales award for "Oh Well Pts 1 & 2", although this certification hasn't been documented anywhere to my understanding.
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Old 11-22-2023, 11:22 AM
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I was thinking it was 73 also. the end of that year was really a disaster. And yes, I believe Clifford Davis has always maintained that FM knew (or maybe at least Mick and John?) about the fake band... maybe Bob welch was in the dark about it? I think somebody asked him about that in his Q&A but i can't remember what he said...

--Lis
Yes it must be around 1973. By Jan. 1974 they already knew about the fake band, according to Mick's book.
I remember John McVie saying to them, "This is crazy. It's our names Fleetwood and Mc." The whole affair was extremely frustrating and would lead to years of the usual farce connected with litigation. Clifford thought he had us. He had other acts and could raise money for lawyers. That was his technique. The label immediately put our money in an interest-bearing account and said they'd be happy to pay whoever the judge told them to. He knew that English litigation was an endless process and thought he could starve us into submission. He didn't figure on our ever having the resources to take him on.

So I don't think John sent Cliff "best wishes" in 1974.

And the end of that episode was far from nice and happy, and it was in 1978.

All that was resolved on a cold English morning that spring. John McVie, Mickey Shapiro, and I sat in our solicitor's of lice, and there appeared our former manager. It was time to settle up. Clifford and McVie looked at each other darkly. If looks could kill, our ex-manager would have been brown bread. It was so vitriolic there was so much hatred in the room one could cut it with a switchblade.
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Old 11-22-2023, 12:18 PM
Mr Scarrott Mr Scarrott is offline
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I’m now convinced the whole Fake Mac thing was a publicity stunt.

What better way to get the band much needed attention than their manager putting a fake band together?

Cliff had other business interests, so maybe he wanted to unload Fleetwood Mac because it took up too much time while the band knew being based in the United States was key to their long term viability.
I don't think it was a publicity stunt at all. It was all very murky and doubtless there were contractual liabilities to be sorted out.


This thread has some more takes on the supposedly "fake" Mac including interviews with Elmer Gantry and Kirby.

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/ledge/sh...ad.php?t=59881



This article quotes Elmer Gantry's recollections of the set-up of the supposedly "fake" Mac

https://pleasekillme.com/fakewood-mac/

In a 2017 BBC Radio interview, Gantry and Gregory confirmed that they were indeed told by Davis that they were forming the new Fleetwood Mac. But they alleged that Fleetwood’s involvement in the project went much further than what Fleetwood described in his autobiography. Gantry said, “Mick Fleetwood came to our house and we talked through the new band, and it all seemed fine. Mick said, well, I can’t actually come and rehearse with you, it was fairly imminent going to America to tour, but if you get [a temporary] drummer, I’ll join you for the tour.” He added that he had recently seen “court papers from the 1970s” in which Fleetwood testified that this meeting had taken place. Gregory said that he and Gantry had played Little Feat’s ‘Dixie Chicken’ to Fleetwood as an example of the type of music they liked, and that Fleetwood gave his approval to the set list of Fleetwood Mac numbers they had chosen.

[That interview can be acccessed here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p04z7cg6}

If Elmer Gantry had indeed seen “court papers from the 1970s” in which Mick, presumably under oath, had confirmed this, this would presumably give him licence to talk about the whole shenanigans openly.
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Old 11-26-2023, 06:42 PM
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I was thinking it was 73 also. the end of that year was really a disaster. And yes, I believe Clifford Davis has always maintained that FM knew (or maybe at least Mick and John?) about the fake band... maybe Bob welch was in the dark about it? I think somebody asked him about that in his Q&A but i can't remember what he said...

--Lis
The only way the story makes sense is for Mick to have known. Clifford hated Welch (musically and personally) so I wouldn’t be shocked if he’d floated a “new” Mac by Mick after the busted Mystery tour. In his book, Mick says Bob in LA started calling Mick at Benifolds and then, when the core trio landed in LA to meet him, they found Bob pissed off. I imagine that “pissed off” was more than just acting as the band’s de facto manager.

Meanwhile, from what Weston said in his Q&A, it sounds like John and Chris were threatening to quit all the time. So, the lawsuit—which was settled out of court—couldn’t solely have been the result of a delusional manager. What Clifford did was awful, yes: but was it all of his design?
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Old 11-26-2023, 06:48 PM
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But then again, Davis refers to himself as the band’s “co-writer” from 1969-74. So, that just goes to show how far he’s willing to stretch copyright law to his advantage. Other less-than-savory managers and producers have done this to songwriters.

I’m thinking of Bobby Bland’s manager who not only exploited Bland’s inability to read, but forced songwriters to sign over songwriting credits in order to get paid.
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