Stevie and Lindsey's Big Fight

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by lagringader&r

Thanks for posting the links to those. I wonder what her being on Klonopin at the time had anything to do with the fight or what she said, though. I don't think Stevie was so out of it that she made any of it up or embellished or whatever. jbrownsjr said there were alleged concerns about Lindsey respecting women and I'm really curious to know what those are, other than what I've already heard about the Tusk kick? No disrespect meant, but for those that think Stevie should be with Lindsey, ugh. I don't think so.

I take it you have formulated your opinion on what type of man Lindsey is based on a few quotes from Stevie? Oh and the New Zealand incident. It appears he had a temper but there are two sides to every story.

BTW..of course this thread will be fifty pages long by tomorrow, with all kinds of fighting. That was the point, no?

[lagringader&r]

Originally Posted by Lux

If you're looking to blow it out of proportion and demonise Lindsey as a dangerous, violent, wife (or girlfriend) beating arsehole then you will. A man should not hit a woman and a woman should not hit a man. But beyond that incident, I don't believe he's an angle, rather a man with flaws that have come to life on a few occasions. The fact that he addresses his flaws, combined with the lack of frequency and rampant ferocity of incidents leaves him far from the demon some seem intent on portraying him as. But again, if you want to believe he is this arsehole, you will.

I really don't have time to post this, but I will anyway. Not enough good Ledge time lately. Demonise Lindsey is kind of extreme, don't you think? But you call them flaws? Flaws are things like forgetting to put the cap back on the toothpaste or drinking milk out of the carton or picking your nose. Do you actually call abusing women a flaw? I just posted all this and so have others, but (according to Mick) Lindsey "had control over Stevie" and abused her or hit her, he hit another one of his girlfriends and another one can't legally talk about their relationship I'm really curious what that's about). Nobody's demonising Lindsey and like I said before, maybe this is something everybody here has talked about, but it's news to me. For this and other reasons, I don't know what to make of him. That's hardly demonising because I'm sure he doesn't care what *I* think about him.

[lagringader&r]

Originally Posted by Kelly

I take it you have formulated your opinion on what type of man Lindsey is based on a few quotes from Stevie? Oh and the New Zealand incident. It appears he had a temper but there are two sides to every story.

BTW..of course this thread will be fifty pages long by tomorrow, with all kinds of fighting. That was the point, no?

Why would you have an attitude toward me? I've asked you questions in posts before, all of which you have ignored. I really don't know why because I don't even know who you are.

If you read my posts, I've said over and over that this is new news to me and I'm curious about it. It may be old news to you. Why would I want 50 pages of fighting? Who are you and why did you say that? I really want to know your bone with me.

[Kelly]

Another point....when is the last angry incident we have? 1987? Do we have any more recent ones? People do grow and change and Lindsey has expressed that. Stevie has described Lindsey in the last few years as "gentler, softer, sweeter". If these are qualities Stevie is observing in Lindsey, perhaps she knows something more about him than we do?
"maybe now he could prove to her, that he could be good for her".

No, I do not think that line from FFG is about his temper. I think the entire FFG song is about one incident, she described writing about in Nashville.

In GDW..."your sunrise loves to go down..you dont want to see it"........your happiness loves to go away...you dont want that to happen...sunrise, light equals love. You don't want to see your love, light, happiness or sunrise go away. That is what I get from it.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by lagringader&r

I found some quotes from Stevie about a fight between her and Lindsey. I think this was 87. If anyone has the audio to this, can you link it or post it because I can't seem to? This is pretty scary. Woah. I think if anyone thought she never regretted smiling at him..well. I know he kicked her on stage during one of the Tusk shows but is he a violent person? Is she? This blew me away. (Oh and if he had killed her, her family and the band would have to get in line behind me!)

Because of that guilt I have always had about not leaving Fleetwood Mac, flew off of the couch and across the room to seriously attack him. And I did. I mean, and I’m not real scary but I can be fairly ferocious. And I grabbed him, you know, which almost got me killed.

He ended up chasing me all the way out of Christine’s maze like house and down the street and then back up the street and then he threw me against the car and I screamed horrible obscenities at him and uh I thought he was going to kill me and I think he probably thought he was going to kill me, too. And um, I said to him “you know if the rest of the..if the rest of the people in the band don’t get you, my family will. My dad and my brother will kill you.”

I have a feeling that it was just as much Stevie as it was Lindsey. You're talking 10 yrs of feelings that had probably been bottled up so that the band could continue. Hence, the reason Lindsey left the band. He always says it was a survival move for him. He probably physically could not be in her presence at all without the need to strangle her. I can understand that, and I think all of us can. And like Stevie has said many times you know when people break up they typically dont see each other anymore, they had to see each other all the time. I can only imagine how draining emotionally that was from Rumours to Tango. Stevie yelling and screaming at Lindsey probably just made him flip. Especially if she told Lindsey he was being selfish, and it felt it was something he needed to do to keep his sanity.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

Could anyone show me in this quote from Stevie where she says Lindsey hurt her? You all want to discuss what a violent person he is but where are the posts about Stevie's apparent violent streak?. She not only started this altercation, she seems to be the only one who committed any real violence according to her own words. This is what she said, again, incase you didn't read it the first time.




No excusing a guy throwing a girl onto a car, but she never says she got hurt. She says she thought he would kill her. She attacked him and it almost got her killed? How? He chased her around? If she was all over him as ferociously as she says, where was everyone else and why wasn't anyone putting a stop to what she was doing before this got out of hand? If somebody flew off a couch and attacked my son, I would expect him to use the least amount of force necessary to get himself out of that situation. Maybe Lindsey should never have gone there that day to talk about the final agreement on the tour? He had not yet signed anything agreeing to anything, becasue if he had he would have been sued for sure. He did the album because Mick was bankrupt and needed the money. Mick thanked him by not only trying to force him into a tour he said from the beginning he didn't want to do, he also slanted the story of this altercation after the fact. I believe Stevie's account more than I do Mick's. The true facts are that Mick and Chris knew from the beginning of the album that Lindsey wasn't going on the tour. Did anyone bother telling Stevie before she got out of rehab and joined the band in the studio?

There is so much more to this story than anyone will ever know, but to keep reading fans hash over the same slanted crap is getting nauseating. Does anyone really believe this altercation was because Lindsey wanted to ruin the tour and waited until the last minute to say, "hey, I quit, and can I kill Stevie for fun on my way out?" The more likely scenerio according to what was happening at the time is that Mick went against Lindsey's original wishes not to tour and put the screws to him to do it at the 11th hour. He likely never told Stevie Lindsey was leaving the band. After working so hard at going to rehab his leaving was probably a shock to her and she reacted badly. I think she knows this because as soon as it was over and he left, she called him and asked him if he wanted her to quit too. She asked if he wanted to do Buckingham Nicks again. Why would she do that if he was so violent to her? Wasn't she afraid he would kill her if he ever got her alone without the others in the band? She was taking a big chance asking him those questions.

I remember reading in early '87 Lindsey was not planning to tour. He agreed to make the album. Why did he change his mind and then change it back? Stevie probably knows why. That's probably what is at the heart of the altercation that took place. She obviously didn't want him to quit and her reaction to the news was out of line, no matter how long she felt she was loyal to the band after she went solo. She had no right to do what she did, as well as for him to do what he did. If they have forgiven each other for what happened, why are fans always rehashing this? Just curious.

I could not agree more. The rehashing of this incident is nauseating.
Stevie strikes me as a very strong willed woman who takes no ****. Why would she call Lindsey up and apologize to him and then ask him if he wants her to quit to if she was so scared of him? If he was such a bad guy? Does she strike you as a battered woman? Get serious. Obviously she knows her part in that fight and has spoken out publically about her involvement. People overlook that and focus on Lindsey.
Emotional battery can be just as harmful, if not worse than chasing someone around a car. Playing head games, sending mixed messages, being hot and cold...takes its toll on people. Lindsey called her a "schizophrenic bith"...implying she had done some crazy things to him, too. I will say it again, Jess adores Lindsey. Most fathers would not love a man who abused their little girl. He knows them much better than all of us combined..if he trusts and respects Lindsey, if Stevie trusts and respects Lindsey, perhaps we should assume that Lindsey is not the volatile monster some of these posts portray him as? They both are drama queens, they are passionate, intense individuals. Do they still argue? Sure. Does Lindsey kick, taunt, throw her on cars, hurl guitars at her? No, in fact my bet is he goes to the other extreme and treats her with kid gloves.
From what I have heard from people, Lindsey treats her quite well.

[Tango]

They are both passionate people, which is why a number of fans seem so devoted to that relationship. Is he a violent person? Is she a violent person? No, probably no more than anyone else struggling with losing a relationship. They have both said how abnormal it was to be having to face each other every day, having to work on songs together for the good of "the band." Lindsey seemed torn about joining that band from the get go, not wanting to lose his own identity. Later, as members of the band seemed to totally disintegrate, due to drugs, alcohol, relationships, it's no wonder Lindsey wanted out. Losing Lindsey could effect the financial stability of all of them, but why would he want to stay on, backing a group that could barely function anymore. The impact: He might cause the break up of the band, their cash flow, their excesses, and how would they explain his leaving for the tour. They all lashed out at him. He said something about it being a life saving thing for himself. Who knows- maybe his leaving saved all their lives. They had to change. He was no longer an enabler.

"Say Goodbye" gives us a look behind the curtain of his feelings, as he writes to Stevie:

Say Goodbye

So you face yesterday
Thinking on the days of old
And the price that we paid
For a love we couldn't hold


I let you slip away
There was nothing I could do
That was so long ago, yeah
Still I often think of you


I fall down, I get up
And I've always had to fight
Everything that was wrong
For the things that were right


Now I finally found my way
Now I know just what to do
Once you said goodbye to me, yeah
Now I say goodbye to you


It's so hard to find your way
When the lies come around
Still it happens everyday
So don't let it get you down


Just a time within a time
Just a scheme within a scheme
A little world within a world
Yes, a dream, just a dream


Now I finally found my way
Now I know just what to do
Once you said goodbye to me, yeah
Now I say goodbye to you


Now I best be on my way
Before the night turns blue
Once you said goodbye to me, yeah
And now I say goodbye to you
Once you said goodbye to me, yeah
Now I say goodbye to you.

[xxxmx]

Originally Posted by henryscutter

He has said before that he had a "short fuse" and I tend to think that is why Stevie left him.

i think the short fuse is what stevie left him with.

haven't you ever known a person who you just love to be around, and then a little while later it seems like they are just out to make your life suck? and then every single thing they do just smacks of i-hate-you but they won't just go away? and you try to tell this person that you'd rather they not hang around, it's not the same, i'm not into this? and they just don't get it? and then it seems like they start parading around right in front of you, doing these things that they know you just hate? and it's so in your face, but you can't hate them for it because you used to love them so much? and then you become not-nice and suddenly they don't want you around them, but it's gone too far already and you're both stuck there together in this ugly, lonely place?

i'm not excusing violence. from what i've read, it took two to tango and neither he nor she is blameless. i think they feed off of one another: anger, joy, jealousy, contentment, passion, frustration... all of it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by lagringader&r

. . .
I still am curious to know why the other girlfriend can't legally talk about their relationship???

That is fairly common in a Hollywood breakup. She most likely got a cash settlement and in return obligated herself not to speak of their relationship.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Another point....when is the last angry incident we have? 1987? Do we have any more recent ones? People do grow and change and Lindsey has expressed that. Stevie has described Lindsey in the last few years as "gentler, softer, sweeter". If these are qualities Stevie is observing in Lindsey, perhaps she knows something more about him than we do?
"maybe now he could prove to her, that he could be good for her".

No, I do not think that line from FFG is about his temper. I think the entire FFG song is about one incident, she described writing about in Nashville.

In GDW..."your sunrise loves to go down..you dont want to see it"........your happiness loves to go away...you dont want that to happen...sunrise, light equals love. You don't want to see your love, light, happiness or sunrise go away. That is what I get from it.

I agree 100%. She has done nothing but sing of his praises for the past few years -- in fact, since 1997 when they reunited for The Dance. It was at that point that it seems they put the bitterness of the past and the competition with each other aside and instead, focused on learning to trust one another again. I'm sure they were a work in progress and even now, continue to be. However, she has never once mentioned anything negative about him to my knowledge in the last past 8 or 9 years.

"Falling down in a crystal ball, into crystal stairs -- i'm doing the same things over and over -- going in for repairs..." (demo version of FFG) I certainly don't think FFG is about his temper -- at all -- so again, I agree with you there.

As far as GDW is concerned, I hadn't really thought about it in those terms but that's certainly a good explaination for it

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by henryscutter

Yes, obviously there was a lot sh** going on then and emotions were running high. If this were an isolated incident I would just blame it all on the intensity of the moment. In his book Mick says that Lindsey had control over Stevie and that Lindsey had hit her in the past. Some people might not believe Mick, but it is also possible that he was holding back on that subject. Really, if what Mick was saying was such a lie why would Lindsey ever befriend him again? Then there is Carol Ann's story and his other girlfriend who legally can't talk about their relationship. He has said before that he had a "short fuse" and I tend to think that is why Stevie left him. That being said I think he changed a lot in the mid 90's and I still like and respect him.

I think he also admitted to doing a lot of work in therapy.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by lagringader&r

I still am curious to know why the other girlfriend can't legally talk about their relationship???

Purely conjecture on my part but there may have been a settlement.

[David]

Originally Posted by paperflowers

I’m so conflicted about this whole scene, especially given the NZ incident and other accounts of his temper.

The "NZ incident" wasn't an account of his temper; it was an account of his drinking.

This also raises questions regarding Stevie’s reaction. Was she surprised that he would actually quit the tour?

I seriously doubt it.

Was there some kind of agreement that they would never leave the band without the other, why was she that pissed?

Of course not. The two of them had barely spoken to each other for about four years. This whole "leave the band without the other" has been blown waaaay out of proportion if not downright concocted.

He had to give some indication to her that he wasn’t comfortable with this tour.

The whole band knew that Lindsey produced "Tango" under duress & did not want to tour at all. That's why they put the screws to him. He even went to see a psychiatrist at that point.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Another point....when is the last angry incident we have? 1987?

The fight in the Destiny Rules doc.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Kelly

No, I do not think that line from FFG is about his temper. I think the entire FFG song is about one incident, she described writing about in Nashville.

So there was an incident in Nashville? I'm totally now.