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  #61  
Old 06-24-2002, 01:36 PM
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Heart David, David, David

Quote:
Originally posted by David

Stevie, for example, says that she took several years to warm up to it, that she didn't get it at first. She talked to Molly Meldrum about "Tusk" in 1986 & about how she loved it at that point, but about how it took her several years to hear the fun & the energy in it. Of course, by that time, she didn't talk to Lindsey much -- otherwise, she might have told him then how amazing she thought "Tusk" was. Imagine if she had been able (or courageous enough) to tell him that in 1986. Maybe those "Tango" sessions might have had an entirely different context. And maybe his decision not to tour might have taken a radically different path the next year (if the others had all told him how much they had come to love "Tusk" musically).

Imagine how history could have been rewritten!

As for Lindsey's estimation of his talents & importance, he has shown perspicacity. He said his main contribution to the band has always been as an arranger & producer rather than as a singer or songwriter or even guitarist. He's always admitted that he has "the chops" as a guitarist, but that it's more important to him how he thinks about the guitar instead of how he plays it. As a songwriter & guitarist, he is fringe & minimalist & exuberant. As an arranger, he is practically peerless in his field.
Perspicacity: The capacity to assess situations or circumstances shrewdly and to draw sound conclusions. (I had to look it up).

David, I love it when you go into deep think mode. You should expound like this more often. Thanks!

Barbara
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  #62  
Old 06-25-2002, 12:58 PM
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I am enjoying this thread immensely. Being musically illiterate, I can't comment but this thread is the kind of discussion I just love b/c it teaches me.

As for Mark Knopfler and Lindsey-I love em both. Their music is quite different and I don't know that it can be compared.

This probably is an ignorant comment but I have always thought Tusk's being a double album might have been part of the reason it didn't sell as well as Rumours. People are not as likely to take a chance on an album when it's more expensive. Tusk as I remember was pretty pricy for its day. In terms of the music on it, it has always been my favorite and always will be. Rumours line-up Fleetwood Mac reached heights on that album it never did again.
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  #63  
Old 06-25-2002, 02:04 PM
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One reason it didn't sell as well...the Westwood One radio program to promote it's release played the album in it's entirety the night before it was released, and they announced that they would in advance, so countless numbers of people just taped it off the radio instead of going out & buying it. (The album in 1979 cost more than the CD does NOW!)

Another thing, for as "raw" as it was supposed to be and such an "anti-corporate" album as it was philosophically supposed to be, the entire marketing strategy and subsequent tour proved that Fleetwood Mac was just as pompous as the new-wavers perceived them to be, rather than the "cutting edge" band that was supposed to be shown with "Tusk".

Lindsey may have been trying to get the band to be "The Clash" or the "Talking Heads" with "Tusk", but got just the opposite instead. Possibly, had they done a small club tour instead of some big "monsters of rock" type tour that they DID, the perception of them being "dinosaurs" may have been dispelled. But, alas, that's not what happened.

A quick follow-up studio album (instead of a live album and a flurry of solo albums) might've saved the life of the band. The "soul" & "spirit" of Fleetwood Mac shriveled & died somewhere between "Tusk" & "Mirage"; and, "Mirage" & "Tango In The Night were basically just done on "life support". The "transfusion" of Billy & Rick for "Behind The Mask" & Bekka Bramlett and Dave Mason for "Time" (which I thought were good ideas at the time) couldn't save them. Even "The Dance" didn't bring the dead back to life; it was a personal thing for them to reunite, but for the most part, they were going through the motions. Their "soul" & "spirit" is gone for good.
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  #64  
Old 06-25-2002, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by chiliD
.......Lindsey may have been trying to get the band to be "The Clash" or the "Talking Heads" with "Tusk", but got just the opposite instead......
Funny you said that! It's what I've thought since the first time I heard that album! Totally agree with you!

(I do think the album is a billion times better than what The Clash or Talking Heads ever put out though!)

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  #65  
Old 06-25-2002, 11:57 PM
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wondergirl9847 wondergirl9847 is offline
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Thumbs down Sick of the word sellout

You know what I'm so sick of, people talking about how if you are successful or HUGE, you are a talentless nobody and you are a "SELL-OUT". I hear it alot when people talk about "boy bands" and the Britney's, Christina's, etc. People like what they like, and that is THAT. I don't understand why Peter Green says he'll NEVER play with Fleetwood Mac again (No offense, but they aren't likely to ASK him to either) because they have "SOLD-OUT". Gimme a break. I know that there are MANY talented people out there who don't get a chance to be HUGE (which will turn them into a-holes anyways, if they aren't already) because the majority of human beings want to hear the same old, mediocre stuff, but griping about it isn't gonna do any good. Be proactive, search out new bands or write to the radio station and beg em to play Stevie or whoever you love. BTW, it's not really gonna do any good, because the BIG GIANT CORPORATIONS rule this frickin planet, not us peons. Hee That's it, I'm done griping. LMAO!
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  #66  
Old 06-26-2002, 11:35 AM
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Angry ChiliD!

"Even "The Dance" didn't bring the dead back to life; it was a personal thing for them to reunite, but for the most part, they were going through the motions. Their "soul" & "spirit" is gone for good."

Just because you've followed this band from infancy doesn't mean everybody has. The Dance was a beautiful performance and brought thousands of new young fans to Fleetwood Mac. I don't think they noticed what you refer to as "going through the motions" - after all, it had been 10 years since some of those songs had been performed in public by this lineup and to me they sounded pretty damned good and looked like they were having a great time!

And while I'm ranting, how do YOU KNOW so much about their "soul" and "spirit"? Really ChiliD, if you're so down on this band I don't understand why you're wasting your time griping on and on about them? IMO, you've made your point many times and we get it.

Barbara
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  #67  
Old 06-26-2002, 11:37 AM
Carole Ann Carole Ann is offline
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Wink My goodness!

Why in the world would Peter want to/F-M ask Peter to...play with them again, when Peter is a blues musician and F-M in it's most recent incarnation couldn't play the blues if their man/woman left them, their dog done died, they lost their day jobs, the train done left the station, they got kicked out of bed/got caught with "someone else"/caught their man/woman cheating on them and they just ran out of Jack Daniels AND cigarettes?

Apples and oranges, apples and oranges.

Quote:
I don't understand why Peter Green says he'll NEVER play with Fleetwood Mac again (No offense, but they aren't likely to ASK him to either)
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  #68  
Old 06-26-2002, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Sick of the word sellout

Quote:
Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I know that there are MANY talented people out there who don't get a chance to be HUGE (which will turn them into a-holes anyways, if they aren't already) because the majority of human beings want to hear the same old, mediocre stuff, but griping about it isn't gonna do any good. Be proactive, search out new bands or write to the radio station and beg em to play Stevie or whoever you love. BTW, it's not really gonna do any good, because the BIG GIANT CORPORATIONS rule this frickin planet, not us peons. Hee That's it, I'm done griping. LMAO!
Well, I feel that way. I've been waiting for something new to play on the radio for almost a decade. Oh sure, there are some songs along the way that I liked and thought were catchy, but nothing innovative that made me think "wow, now that was nothing like I've ever heard before". It's unfortunate, and I wish it would change. It hasn't though, which is why I no longer listen to the radio.

love to all,

Amy Yeo
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  #69  
Old 06-26-2002, 12:03 PM
Carole Ann Carole Ann is offline
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Talking Hostility reigns supreme!

Quote:
IMO, you've made your point many times and we get it.
Barbara, are you suggesting that chili should either shut up or begin agreeing with the "F-M can do no wrong and how DARE you imply otherwise" faction? Seems that the majority of his posts are "opinions" rather than "facts," but I could be wrong.

It seems that, again, people start getting in trouble when opinions are mis-read as facts. PLUS, despite the nay-saying, opinions that as little as HINT at frustration with the band cause lots and lots of trouble (i.e., "This is a Fleetwood Mac forum and, if you hate the band so much, what're you doing here?"- type stuff).

Everyone has made fine, fine points and articulated their opinions and labeled them appropriately. That's now (again?) a problem?
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  #70  
Old 06-26-2002, 12:35 PM
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Carole Ann,

Great post about Peter Green..I couldn't have said it better!

And, thank you.


Barbara,

Maybe because I HAVE followed the band from it's inception I might have a clearer view of it's workings (from a fans' perspective)? Possibly. Yes, Fleetwood Mac DID attract many new fans, some even second generation fans who weren't even BORN when Tango In The Night was recorded, much less Rumours. BUT, what has Fleetwood Mac done to nurture THEIR fandom? Nothing. What has Fleetwood Mac done to KEEP the older fans? Nothing. Had they followed-up with something in a REASONABLY timely fashion after "The Dance", I might not be "as down on them" (your words). Yet, I'm still anxiously awaiting ANYTHING from them as anyone else here. But, this damned waiting seemingly DECADES for new material is aggravating.

As you can tell by other posts in this thread (and those two similarly themed ones on the Rumours board ), I'm not the only one who is irked at their publicly viewed lengthy inactivity. So, I assume by your comment that either I not post my opinions, or, that I should "fall in line with the 'Fleetwood Mac can do no wrong' consensus"?? Neither of which I will do, by the way.

Last edited by chiliD; 06-26-2002 at 01:11 PM..
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  #71  
Old 06-26-2002, 12:41 PM
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You think the wait for a new album is lengthy....spare a thought for us Brits! They haven't toured our shores since Behind The Mask and even though it has been promised this time I won't hold my breath!! I do think they should remember their roots sometimes!

Having said that I know I will buy whatever they release and even though I am pissed at having to wait even longer I am also a little relieved that I have longer to save up to travel to the States to see them tour!!!

Pip
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  #72  
Old 06-26-2002, 02:43 PM
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Question Hmmmm...

Knopfler & Buckingham are both great finger-picking guitarists, But I have a new favorite of the finger-picking style to add to the pot, Keith Urban. He may play country (He's more new "New-Country" than traditional...) but I saw his style from 10 feet away in the front row,(Saw him last year at the Okla. State Fair), And I was floored...

Kinda ironic when he was asked who are his guitar influences, His reply was only 2 people, "Mark Knopfler & Lindsey Buckingham"...Brian
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  #73  
Old 06-26-2002, 03:38 PM
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Default Soul and spirit

Chili, I get what you mean about Mirage and TITN-something did get lost there but wasn't it because the stupid label wanted money-not creative inventiveness- that Lindsey turned back and they made Mirage, which was more in the Rumours style, and then Tango? It's like he kinda lost his nerve, FM-wise. Go Insane is pretty inventive though.

I'd heard that story about Westwood. Somebody really messed up there!
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"We listen to their voices, ignoring our own voice" Stevie - SOTM
"I keep the dream in my pocket, never let it fade away" Lindsey - TITN
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  #74  
Old 06-26-2002, 04:50 PM
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That's always been sort of a no win situation for Lindsey. Either he could continue to spearhead the group in the Tusk vein and be called selfish for it, which he often was and is, by the band and fans alike, or he could temper his direction a bit and do something the band collectively was more comfortable with, but then he's sort of fingered for losing his nerve, by the band and fans alike. That's not a position I would envy anyone.

I like Tango personally. The band may have been on life support for the album in terms of personal interactions, but I still like the vast majority of that album.

Last edited by Les; 06-26-2002 at 04:53 PM..
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  #75  
Old 06-26-2002, 05:29 PM
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Cool Team Player!!!

I always thot' Lindsey was TOLD to be a good team-player
and revert back to sellable Commercial Music again on
"Mirage"! MUSIC that would fatten the FM bank accounts!!!
Like Ken C. said... "We were not taking any more chances
with Lindsey!" He HAD to do IT Their Way this Time! Sky
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