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  #16  
Old 08-02-2018, 11:36 PM
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Iamwilliame Iamwilliame is offline
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I've said before, both Lindsey and Stevie have had more than a few instances of being insufferable. I have wondered over the past several months if Stevie was pushing to bring Mike into the touring band as a second guitarist way before Lindsey was fired and that is what really set this whole fiasco into motion. That seems like the kind of totally impulsive thing Stevie Nicks would do following the death of Tom Petty, and I can see Lindsey laughing and telling her and everyone else that it's a crazy idea that will never happen, just like the Sheryl Crow thing. I can hear her now saying to everyone else, "Mike is a fantastic guitarist and songwriter and he is too good not to be in a great band." Mark my word, she will say those exact words in an interview within the next year. I love so much of the music Lindsey and Stevie managed to make together, but they both annoy me to no end.
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  #17  
Old 08-03-2018, 02:25 AM
Angel75 Angel75 is offline
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Originally Posted by Iamwilliame View Post
"Mike is a fantastic guitarist and songwriter and he is too good not to be in a great band." Mark my word, she will say those exact words in an interview within the next year. I love so much of the music Lindsey and Stevie managed to make together, but they both annoy me to no end.
It's funny and I agree with you, you can totally imagine her saying this.
She wanted Mike in the band no matter what....so if she wanted him there, then she had to ensure LB was kicked out
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  #18  
Old 08-03-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Angel75 View Post
She wanted Mike in the band no matter what.
I don't know whether it was "no matter what," but she's always been so close to Mike that her wanting him to join seems totally understandable. I can't believe that she intended to oust Lindsey. It seems more reasonable to assume that she wanted to add Mike in part to provide personal support, to balance out the serious-minded, sometimes abrasive Lindsey. When you have to spend time with someone you annoys you or overwhelms you, you tend to want an advocate by your side. It's like going to see a doctoróbring a family member or a friend so that you won't get swamped by a demanding personality telling you what to do.

What doesn't seem quite so understandable
  • Why didn't she just bring Mike into her solo fold? Stevie Nicks works as often as (if not more than) Fleetwood Mac. Alternatively, Stevie could have asked Mike to join her full time in Stevie Nicks, and then quit Fleetwood Mac.
  • Why didn't she also push to bring in Benmont? She's as close to Benmont as she is to Mike (which is to say very close musically and personally)?
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  #19  
Old 08-03-2018, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Angel75 View Post
It's funny and I agree with you, you can totally imagine her saying this.
She wanted Mike in the band no matter what....so if she wanted him there, then she had to ensure LB was kicked out
I don't know if that was always her plan. I think once Tom died and after seeing how bands like Eagles and HB could go on without their main members she decided it was time to bring her people in and kick Lindsey out.
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"I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. What that did was to harm the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build, and that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."
- Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #20  
Old 08-03-2018, 07:34 PM
Angel75 Angel75 is offline
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Originally Posted by David View Post
I don't know whether it was "no matter what," but she's always been so close to Mike that her wanting him to join seems totally understandable. I can't believe that she intended to oust Lindsey. It seems more reasonable to assume that she wanted to add Mike in part to provide personal support, to balance out the serious-minded, sometimes abrasive Lindsey. When you have to spend time with someone you annoys you or overwhelms you, you tend to want an advocate by your side. It's like going to see a doctoróbring a family member or a friend so that you won't get swamped by a demanding personality telling you what to do.

What doesn't seem quite so understandable
  • Why didn't she just bring Mike into her solo fold? Stevie Nicks works as often as (if not more than) Fleetwood Mac. Alternatively, Stevie could have asked Mike to join her full time in Stevie Nicks, and then quit Fleetwood Mac.
  • Why didn't she also push to bring in Benmont? She's as close to Benmont as she is to Mike (which is to say very close musically and personally)?
Perhaps that was a little bit too severe, saying she wanted Mike in no matter what but to me it did seem so very premeditated on her part. But I agree with you exactly why not bring Mike and Benmont into her solo band....?
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  #21  
Old 08-03-2018, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by button-lip View Post
I don't know if that was always her plan. I think once Tom died and after seeing how bands like Eagles and HB could go on without their main members she decided it was time to bring her people in and kick Lindsey out.
Yes I agree, that once Tom died she was calculating various scenarios of how to bring her people in at Lindsey's expense.
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  #22  
Old 08-31-2018, 06:58 AM
Ench Ench is offline
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Originally Posted by dreamsunwind View Post
I know this is all speculation but I think she really did always want her own 'people' in the FM world. It started way back too, with all the stories about how she'd give all her different girlfriends these random 'jobs' just as a way to bring them on tour with her and they pretty quickly became like an entourage surrounding her constantly And then she successfully got Lori and Sharon to officially be part of their touring band as backup singers. Then there was the whole Sheryl Crow fiasco from when Stevie was pretty tight friends with her. I doubt that prior to Tom's death, she ever thought about bringing Mike into FM but after Tom passed I'm sure she would've jumped at any opportunity to have someone like Mike (who was her friend/collaborator for years as well as a strong connection to Tom) close to her.
I can't see anything wrong with wanting to work with friends, and take them on the road with you.
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  #23  
Old 08-31-2018, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Ench View Post
I can't see anything wrong with wanting to work with friends, and take them on the road with you.
But firing the REASON FM has stayed relevant for 43 years isn't the way to go about that.

IT'S FLEETWOOD F*CKING MAC. Let her hire her friend$ for her $olo tour$.
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  #24  
Old 08-31-2018, 08:52 AM
Ench Ench is offline
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
But firing the REASON FM has stayed relevant for 43 years isn't the way to go about that.

IT'S FLEETWOOD F*CKING MAC. Let her hire her friend$ for her $olo tour$.
Using swear words and replacing 's' with '$' does not an argument make.

FM reached, in their words, an impasse. Given that they needed replacements for Lindsey if they wanted to continue activity (which we should be thankful for - FM2018 is much better than no FM at all), then hiring talented friends who they know they can with for is a reasonable thing to do.

It is Fleetwood Mac indeed. A band which has reinvented itself with new lineups throughout its 50 year history. With greater and lesser artistic and commercial success. This is just one more step in this process.

Fleetwood Mac was never about any one person. You may say that Fleetwood Mac is just about Lindsey, but clearly the band disagree with you. I'm sorry, but the band's opinion clearly and massively overrides yours.
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  #25  
Old 08-31-2018, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ench View Post
Using swear words and replacing 's' with '$' does not an argument make.

FM reached, in their words, an impasse. Given that they needed replacements for Lindsey if they wanted to continue activity (which we should be thankful for - FM2018 is much better than no FM at all), then hiring talented friends who they know they can with for is a reasonable thing to do.

It is Fleetwood Mac indeed. A band which has reinvented itself with new lineups throughout its 50 year history. With greater and lesser artistic and commercial success. This is just one more step in this process.

Fleetwood Mac was never about any one person. You may say that Fleetwood Mac is just about Lindsey, but clearly the band disagree with you. I'm sorry, but the band's opinion clearly and massively overrides yours.
Gee, thank$ for the Engli$h lesson, and the conde$cending, $elf righteou$ attitude.
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and Stevie Nicks was starting to lumber along like a sod-packed wheelbarrow.
And I'm David, not Homer!(we all should be able to change our name, at least once)
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  #26  
Old 08-31-2018, 09:02 AM
Ench Ench is offline
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
Gee, thank$ for the Engli$h lesson, and the conde$cending, $elf righteou$ attitude.
Perhaps if you'd actually discussed the point in a reasonable constructive manner you would have a reply more to your liking.
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  #27  
Old 08-31-2018, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ench View Post
Perhaps if you'd actually discussed the point in a reasonable constructive manner you would have a reply more to your liking.
Perhap$ you think I'm concerned.
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and Stevie Nicks was starting to lumber along like a sod-packed wheelbarrow.
And I'm David, not Homer!(we all should be able to change our name, at least once)
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  #28  
Old 08-31-2018, 09:13 AM
Ench Ench is offline
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
Perhap$ you think I'm concerned.
You were certainly concerned enough to reply. It appears to me that you are attempting to get the last word when you haven't actually yet contributed anything of substance in this exchange. Perhaps you should concentrate on the content of what you write rather than whether it was the last thing written.

Let's see if you can address a point. You claim that Lindsey is the reason why Fleetwood Mac has stayed relevant for 43 years. But, as I pointed out, the rest of the band don't necessarily think so. As an example, Lindsey's contributed arrangement and production work is often quoted as his biggest contribution to the band as the other songwriters contributed most of the hits. Now, I think that his arrangement and production work is great and that Stevie never sounds better than as when she's produced by Lindsey. E.g. I really like SYW. However, we know that Stevie doesn't like Lindsey's production. Clearly her personal evaluation of the importance of Lindsey in the band does not match yours. It's the band's choice what they do, particularly at their time of life. No-one else's.

Given that Lindsey is no longer in the band, they needed replacements. It's reasonable to work with people who are both talented and friends.
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  #29  
Old 08-31-2018, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Ench View Post
You were certainly concerned enough to reply. It appears to me that you are attempting to get the last word when you haven't actually yet contributed anything of substance in this exchange. Perhaps you should concentrate on the content of what you write rather than whether it was the last thing written.

Let's see if you can address a point. You claim that Lindsey is the reason why Fleetwood Mac has stayed relevant for 43 years. But, as I pointed out, the rest of the band don't necessarily think so. As an example, Lindsey's contributed arrangement and production work is often quoted as his biggest contribution to the band as the other songwriters contributed most of the hits. Now, I think that his arrangement and production work is great and that Stevie never sounds better than as when she's produced by Lindsey. E.g. I really like SYW. However, we know that Stevie doesn't like Lindsey's production. Clearly her personal evaluation of the importance of Lindsey in the band does not match yours. It's the band's choice what they do, particularly at their time of life. No-one else's.

Given that Lindsey is no longer in the band, they needed replacements. It's reasonable to work with people who are both talented and friends.
Well, given that $tevie has no interest in recording now, and that $he can't stand Lindsey, that makes his great producing skills far less valuable, now that they're officially an oldies act(no new music, just teat milking).

I firmly believe $he issued the "it's him or me" ultimatum. Mick chose his ca$h cow. Like he could ever make any other choice, being the cheap whore that he is.

That said, Lindsey's playing is THE SOUND of FM. I mean, they'll still have the bleating going for them, but his guitar style IS their sound.
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and Stevie Nicks was starting to lumber along like a sod-packed wheelbarrow.
And I'm David, not Homer!(we all should be able to change our name, at least once)
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  #30  
Old 08-31-2018, 10:00 AM
Ench Ench is offline
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
Well, given that $tevie has no interest in recording now, and that $he can't stand Lindsey, that makes his great producing skills far less valuable, now that they're officially an oldies act(no new music, just teat milking).
This is reasonable. We know that Stevie doesn't want to work with Lindsey which is possibly one of the reasons why she didn't join in on the album that became Buckingham/McVie.

Fleetwood Mac tours have been 'play the hits' for a long time now. Even with Lindsey. That's the business they're in, as are many other bands of their era.

The new lineup may shake things up a bit, if comments about playing stuff from more eras in their career come to be. So, the result may be more fresh than the retread going-through-the-numbers we may have gotten otherwise. Not the repeated use of the word 'may' in that sentence.

Quote:
I firmly believe $he issued the "it's him or me" ultimatum. Mick chose his ca$h cow. Like he could ever make any other choice, being the cheap whore that he is.
Well, people can choose to believe whatever they like. What's more worth actual discussion is if people can support those beliefs with actual evidence and logical argument.

Quote:
That said, Lindsey's playing is THE SOUND of FM. I mean, they'll still have the bleating going for them, but his guitar style IS their sound.
Lindsey contributed greatly to FM while he was a member. As did the other members. But, it's a band, not just one person.

Lindsey's guitar sound was an important part of FM while he was a member, as was Stevie's and Christine's voices and songwriting, and the rhythm section. Even if we're forgetting the other eras of the band and just concentrating on Rumours, there isn't just one component to their sound. It's a band, with multiple members who contribute distinctive aspects of the sound, and to songwriting and arranging too.

I consider it possible (not 'probable' or 'likely') that part of what has caused the breakdown is Lindsey believing that he 'is' FM in the way that you appear to do. But, I would want to support that with more evidence before attempting to put if forward as a credible factor. Lindsey's comments (apart from the clear comment that this was not his choice) have been frustratingly obscure. E.g. that 'factions' in the band have lost 'perspective' may show this, but to claim his comments mean that would be going ridiculously beyond what the known facts support.

BTW: Name-calling isn't a good way of encouraging people to take you seriously. Mick will clearly have been heavily involved in the decision, but we don't know exactly what role he played nor his reasons for doing so.

Last edited by Ench : 08-31-2018 at 10:06 AM.
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