Seven Souls

[chriskisn]

Ok, I'm spamming this thread, but I have managed to track down a picture of the sleeve of the French single (Princess - 645008)



As opposed to the Spanish single (Sonoplay SN 20.152)



I did translate the Spanish on the second image for Wetcamelfood the other day but the translation is on my work laptop. It only mentioned something along the lines of this being the crazy Seven Souls and the music of Hell or some such! No mention of The Crazy World of Arthur Brown.

[wetcamelfood]

Thanks Chris, yes, those 4 tracks from that single may be on the album, they are all live, don't know if it was a live album or not but the version of Hold On I'm Comin' from the B side of the Fire single is a studio version, unlike the 4 track single (just to confuse matters) and yeah, the My Testimony single was a diff 7S, Bob confirmed that for me.

John

[chriskisn]

I thought we might have discussed that other Seven Souls before but couldn't remember...

As for the Hold On I'm Coming tracks, I have one at 3.04 and one at 3.31...neither of which sound particularly live so not sure which one is which (I think the 3.04 one is from the 4 track EP?)

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

I thought we might have discussed that other Seven Souls before but couldn't remember...

As for the Hold On I'm Comin tracks, I have one at 3.04 and one at 3.31...neither of which sound particularly live so not sure which one is which (I think the 3.04 one is from the 4 track EP?)

Oh well maybe not live versions then but I just meant it wasn't a dupe.

John

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

Oh well maybe not live versions then but I just meant it wasn't a dupe.

John

Well they might very well be live, I'm just not sure which one is which?

As for the 7S album...where did you originally find out about it?

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Well they might very well be live, I'm just not sure which one is which?

As for the 7S album...where did you originally find out about it?

To be honest I can't remember, I'll see if I can do some digging to remind myself.

John

[wetcamelfood]

Well, I found the e mail Bob forwarded me from Tony Lytle in England (who was a 7S member) when he asked him about it in 2003 and this is what he had to say:

"As I recall, the Barclay album was just called THE SEVEN SOULS. It was, of course, produced at studio Barclay, Avenue Hoche by Roland Hilda. Sadly, I do not have a copy - we were already back in the states when the LP was released. In later years, Doug Fowlkes promised to get me a copy, but it just never happened, and I think we had other things on our mind at that time. I remember seeing it once, and in my mind it had a bright red cover. The only other person who tells me he has a copy is the Byblos bar man Cesare -- who now owns a restaurant in Cannes where I often go for dinner when attending the film and TV markets. In fact, Cesare's daughter Florence works for us at all the Cannes markets. Cesare has thousands of LPs, most of which are boxed and in storage, which is why he has been unable to dig out the copy he says he has"

I know this doesn't help us but it's all I've got. I notice that I asked this at Bob's 2nd Q&A here but I didn't say in my question where I heard it. At least this confirms it's existence, though when he speaks of the red cover, maybe he saw the 4 track single we spoke of since the picture sleeve on that is red but it sure seems like there are not many copies of the album left and though the single is surely not easily accessible, it isn't that hard to find the 4 track single (albeit very expensively) online whereas I've never even heard of a copy of the album being up for auction. So I read this as them referring to the album and not the 4 track single. Who knows at this point though.

OK I loaded the 7S & TCWOAB Fire's in 2 mp3 players I have on my PC and played them at the same time. Naturally it takes a second to click play on the 2nd mp3 player after clicking play on the first one but I find this is a good way for determining version questions so you can get an echo feel if it is the same version and if it skews then this points to it being 2 different recordings. Of course there are the variables of if one mp3 was mastered at the same speed of the other etc. but naturally you adjust the speed of the one pulling away as needed and even if that doesn't work you can tell by closely listening to the "licks". As we know, especially back then, artists would often try to emulate the original when doing a cover as closely as they can but as humans, you can't get your voice to croak at the same time, the same way, etc. (maybe after 100 takes a freak of nature happens but not something you can bank on happening to the point where you'd blow thousands on studio time being optimistic that this will happen when recording) and it's often been said that even if you get the same guitar as your hero, same gear, right down to the same strings etc. you most likely will not be able to sound like your hero when you play it because the way your hero's fingers clutch the fretboard and so on is something you may come close to replicating but won't (not to the point where you could record an identical cover that would cause debates as to if it is the original recording or not). With these factors in mind, I'd say they do a good job at replicating here but I think they are different versions. The I AM THE GOD OF FIRE at the beginning alone is enough for me but even after giving it the benefit of the doubt, some things later still sounded different. I even checked the mono and stereo mp3s of TCWOAB's version as the mono doesn't include the horns).

I'd like to get feedback from others on this thread though since you posted both versions earlier. We might get this cleared up as much as we can by getting a consensus. Anyone?

John

[chriskisn]

All those Bob Welch fans are just queuing up to help with this question. Maybe we should change the thread title to something more sensationalist or make suggestions that mick is the reason you can't find the album.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

All those Bob Welch fans are just queuing up to help with this question. Maybe we should change the thread title to something more sensationalist or make suggestions that mick is the reason you can't find the album.

Classic!

John

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

OK I loaded the 7S & TCWOAB Fire's in 2 mp3 players I have on my PC and played them at the same time. Naturally it takes a second to click play on the 2nd mp3 player after clicking play on the first one but I find this is a good way for determining version questions so you can get an echo feel if it is the same version and if it skews then this points to it being 2 different recordings. Of course there are the variables of if one mp3 was mastered at the same speed of the other etc. but naturally you adjust the speed of the one pulling away as needed and even if that doesn't work you can tell by closely listening to the "licks". As we know, especially back then, artists would often try to emulate the original when doing a cover as closely as they can but as humans, you can't get your voice to croak at the same time, the same way, etc. (maybe after 100 takes a freak of nature happens but not something you can bank on happening to the point where you'd blow thousands on studio time being optimistic that this will happen when recording) and it's often been said that even if you get the same guitar as your hero, same gear, right down to the same strings etc. you most likely will not be able to sound like your hero when you play it because the way your hero's fingers clutch the fretboard and so on is something you may come close to replicating but won't (not to the point where you could record an identical cover that would cause debates as to if it is the original recording or not). With these factors in mind, I'd say they do a good job at replicating here but I think they are different versions. The I AM THE GOD OF FIRE at the beginning alone is enough for me but even after giving it the benefit of the doubt, some things later still sounded different. I even checked the mono and stereo mp3s of TCWOAB's version as the mono doesn't include the horns).

I'd like to get feedback from others on this thread though since you posted both versions earlier. We might get this cleared up as much as we can by getting a consensus. Anyone?

John

It just doesn't sound like the Seven Souls though to my way of thinking. I'm not doubting they are different versions but does it sound like the Seven Souls? Unless, and here is a spanner for the works, the single is meant to say "The Crazy World of Arthur Brown WITH the Seven Souls".

I mean the information available to us says it is the Seven Souls, and I wouldn't even doubt this if it wasn't that little bit on the back saying "TCWOAB BY the Seven Souls". It really makes no sense, especially as the other track was Sam & Dave. I'd understand the "BY" if both tracks were TCWOAB but they aren't.

Now I know that it was common for lesser known bands to cover the big hits, and of course Fire made #1 on the charts, so perhaps that's why 7S covered it, and tried to sound as much like the original as they could. Perhaps the mention of TCWOAB was purely to sell the extra album for those unsuspecting Spanish and French buyers who wouldn't read the description too closely but had heard the single across the Channel?

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

It just doesn't sound like the Seven Souls though to my way of thinking. I'm not doubting they are different versions but does it sound like the Seven Souls? Unless, and here is a spanner for the works, the single is meant to say "The Crazy World of Arthur Brown WITH the Seven Souls".

I mean the information available to us says it is the Seven Souls, and I wouldn't even doubt this if it wasn't that little bit on the back saying "TCWOAB BY the Seven Souls". It really makes no sense, especially as the other track was Sam & Dave. I'd understand the "BY" if both tracks were TCWOAB but they aren't.

Now I know that it was common for lesser known bands to cover the big hits, and of course Fire made #1 on the charts, so perhaps that's why 7S covered it, and tried to sound as much like the original as they could. Perhaps the mention of TCWOAB was purely to sell the extra album for those unsuspecting Spanish and French buyers who wouldn't read the description too closely but had heard the single across the Channel?

Yeah I'm wondering now if the "by" is the thing that got lost in the language translation and may not mean what we think it means. Who knows, maybe it's a different version of Fire by TCWOAB?! Good point on why would they make a big deal about TCWOAB by the 7S then side B isn't even a CWOAB song. This would make more sense if both sides were CWOAB songs. I guess we've reached a dead end in the maze.

John

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

Yeah I'm wondering now if the "by" is the thing that got lost in the language translation and may not mean what we think it means. Who knows, maybe it's a different version of Fire by TCWOAB?! Good point on why would they make a big deal about TCWOAB by the 7S then side B isn't even a CWOAB song. This would make more sense if both sides were CWOAB songs. I guess we've reached a dead end in the maze.

John

Well I guess I'm just going to have to track down a member of the Seven Souls and see if they remember! Wish we'd had this discussion a couple of years back because we could have asked Bob Welch, but that isn't to be. I'd love to track down Bobby Hunt (assuming he's still alive) as we could ask him regarding this and the question that was raised in that other thread about his time on tour with FM (and whether it had been suggested that he would join the band).

With regards to the 7S album, I wonder if there are still Barclay records regarding that sort of thing? Aren't they Universal now?

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Well I guess I'm just going to have to track down a member of the Seven Souls and see if they remember! Wish we'd had this discussion a couple of years back because we could have asked Bob Welch, but that isn't to be. I'd love to track down Bobby Hunt (assuming he's still alive) as we could ask him regarding this and the question that was raised in that other thread about his time on tour with FM (and whether it had been suggested that he would join the band).

With regards to the 7S album, I wonder if there are still Barclay records regarding that sort of thing? Aren't they Universal now?

Well, it was Bob who said to me he didn't remember so that's why he asked Tony and pasted me his e mail reply which I posted above. I think you're right that Universal may have dibs on Barclay but don't know if we'd get the sentence finished before they slam the door in our face.

In this thread:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showth...t=53156&page=2

There is this:

http://archive.today/90Tu

Don't know if he's affiliated to that site or not though.

John

[forever]

Henry Moore and Ivory Hudson are on Facebook if someone wants to reach out to them.

[chriskisn]

Might try if I get a chance at work. No luck getting a response from Bobby Hunt, and although I've managed to track down Billy Diez's daughter on facebook, I haven't been able to track down Tony Lytle yet as there are several on facebook and who knows if any of them are him.

I'm also thinking that there must be French copyright records somewhere, but they don't appear to be online.