This absolutely disgusts me.

[Merf]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...us_film_gibson

I know that this is Mel Gibson's father's beliefs, but Gibson really owes the public an explaination about this-- especially considering all the talks of anti-semitism in the media lately. He said to Diane Sawyer that being an Anti-Semite was un-Christian, and against his beliefs. Well obviously his father thinks differently.

I know this is a very controversial topic but I had to vent here. I just don't see how some people can be so disgusting.

[strandinthewind]

That is pretty bad. It also raises the age old argument of "Did the Jews exxgerate the concentration camp deaths to make themselves more pitiable in the eyes of the world." I do not buy that argument because while I am sure that some people could not be accounted for and were presumed to have been killed in the camps (it was after all a war and records were not really kept), these numbers are irrelevant because so many did actually die. I mean how can these people think a million people are organized enough, esp. in the state of mind they were in once released from the death camps, to be in on a conspiracy and never fould it up once.

[CarneVaca]

I almost want to laugh at these statements, but unfortunately there are still enough people out there who believe this nonsense.

But let's keep something in perspective here. Mel Gibson is coming across as a real fanatic these days, what with the anti-Vatican II talk and the wide-eyed glazy gaze, but can we hold him responsible for what his 83-year-old father says? I think not.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I almost want to laugh at these statements, but unfortunately there are still enough people out there who believe this nonsense.

But let's keep something in perspective here. Mel Gibson is coming across as a real fanatic these days, what with the anti-Vatican II talk and the wide-eyed glazy gaze, but can we hold him responsible for what his 83-year-old father says? I think not.

I agree his father is his own man. But, did you see that interview with, I think, Diane Sawyer. I was like WTF - he looks crazy as a loon He has always been a little fanatical, but to say his wife is going to hell or at least cannot get into heaven because she is not a Catholic Do people really still think this way, esp. since Protestantism was created to rememdy the corruption of the old Catholic Church?

I would like to see the movie, but apparently it is full of gore (not AL ) and is very, very violent. I do not handle those two things very well, esp. when it is a "real story" like this as opposed to something like Lord of the Rings, which is fantasy, etc. I may rent it when it comes out on DVD so I can take it in small doses

Finally, most people who have seen it and commented on it have said it is not anti-sementic. I think the fear is the film is so violent that it will again raise the spectre of Jews being persecuted as "Christ killers" - which is a sad thing.

[dissention]

While Mel Gibson cannot be held accountable for his fathers words and actions, it does raise some questions. Gibson has said that his father is very close to him and that his fathers beliefs were preached to the family often. With the release of The Passion (which I personally believe to be anti-semitic), it makes people wonder if his fathers beliefs rubbed off on Gibson.

A friend of mine got a preview DVD that was sent to churches (it isn't the entire film, just some select scenes and a Mel Gibson interview thing; nothing special, really) and I was a bit shocked when I watched it. I'm not religious at all, but I was curious about the movie. My impression from what I saw was that the Jews were completely responsible for the death of Jesus and that they will forever be damned for it. I found it to be absolutely ludicrous and it's going to fuel the hatred towards Jews that some religious zealots already feel. The second shocking thing was the violence. It's *extremely* violent and I mean graphically violent.

I think mel Gibson needs to take a couple of years retirment and stop shoving this horse **** down our throats. Jews view this as offensive and I can't blame them. The fact that Gibson won't take responsibility for its anti-Jews message is shocking in itself.

Ask your church if they have the preview DVD, I was told it was sent out to churches everywhere.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I agree his father is his own man. But, did you see that interview with, I think, Diane Sawyer. I was like WTF - he looks crazy as a loon He has always been a little fanatical, but to say his wife is going to hell or at least cannot get into heaven because she is not a Catholic Do people really still think this way, esp. since Protestantism was created to rememdy the corruption of the old Catholic Church?

He looked more coked up than Whitney during that interview; I was amazed.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
While Mel Gibson cannot be held accountable for his fathers words and actions, it does raise some questions. Gibson has said that his father is very close to him and that his fathers beliefs were preached to the family often. With the release of The Passion (which I personally believe to be anti-semitic), it makes people wonder if his fathers beliefs rubbed off on Gibson.

A friend of mine got a preview DVD that was sent to churches (it isn't the entire film, just some select scenes and a Mel Gibson interview thing; nothing special, really) and I was a bit shocked when I watched it. I'm not religious at all, but I was curious about the movie. My impression from what I saw was that the Jews were completely responsible for the death of Jesus and that they will forever be damned for it. I found it to be absolutely ludicrous and it's going to fuel the hatred towards Jews that some religious zealots already feel. The second shocking thing was the violence. It's *extremely* violent and I mean graphically violent.

I think mel Gibson needs to take a couple of years retirment and stop shoving this horse **** down our throats. Jews view this as offensive and I can't blame them. The fact that Gibson won't take responsibility for its anti-Jews message is shocking in itself.

Ask your church if they have the preview DVD, I was told it was sent out to churches everywhere.

But, I am at a loss to understand why showing the agony of Christ is per se anti-semitic. I mean if you believe The Bible, particularly the Gospels, which is what this film apparently pretty much exactly follows, then the Jews are responsible for Jesus' death. The Romans certainly had a hand in it (or at least a washed PP hand ) , but the Jews organized it, etc. So, while I think maybe the tone may be anti-semitic (I have not seen it), to say it is per se anti-semitic (which I am not sure you are saying but clearly some are) would mean the story of Christ could never be told as portrayed in The Bible out of fear that the Jews would be cast in a poor light. I think that is wrong.

Interestingly, I do believe the Biblical version of events in the Gospels are probably mostly accurate because the Herrod was a Jew, but I also think the Catholic Church hyped up the Jews' role to make people hate Jews and want to be Catholic. Certainly the CC tried other ways, albeit later, to convert Jews a la the Inquisition.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
But, I am at a loss to understand why showing the agony of Christ is per se anti-semitic. I mean if you believe The Bible, particularly the Gospels, which is what this film apparently pretty much exactly follows, then the Jews are responsible for Jesus' death. The Romans certainly had a hand in it (or at least a washed PP hand ) , but the Jews organized it, etc. So, while I think maybe the tone may be anti-semitic (I have not seen it), to say it is per se anti-semitic (which I am not sure you are saying but clearly some are) would mean the story of Christ could never be told as portrayed in The Bible out of fear that the Jews would be cast in a poor light. I think that is wrong.

Interestingly, I do believe the Biblical version of events in the Gospels are probably mostly accurate because the Herrod was a Jew, but I also think the Catholic Church hyped up the Jews' role to make people hate Jews and want to be Catholic. Certainly the CC tried other ways, albeit later, to convert Jews a la the Inquisition.

I'm not religious and I've never even picked up a Bible (I guess that's a red herring that I'm a liberal ), so I won't presume to know what it says.

BUT, being a non-religious person and seeing parts of that vile film, I was left with an awful taste in my mouth. It made *everyone* but the Jews seem like good guys. They even made the Roman emperor (I don't know his name) as a person who sympathized with Jesus and wouldn't take part in his crucifixtion! Sorry, I was appalled.

And regardless what the Bible says, I could care less. it's a known fact that people believe what they want to believe when it comes to the "Book."

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
I'm not religious and I've never even picked up a Bible (I guess that's a red herring that I'm a liberal ), so I won't presume to know what it says.

BUT, being a non-religious person and seeing parts of that vile film, I was left with an awful taste in my mouth. It made *everyone* but the Jews seem like good guys. They even made the Roman emperor (I don't know his name) as a person who sympathized with Jesus and wouldn't take part in his crucifixtion! Sorry, I was appalled.

And regardless what the Bible says, I could care less. it's a known fact that people believe what they want to believe when it comes to the "Book."

Pontius Pilate is a fascinating story. Here is a cite that tells it

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/pilate.htm

Note the line "Let His Blood be on us and on our children!" is why many persecute the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ.

Also, the movie is meant to horrifying because it was a horrifying event and the Jews were the bad guys Interstingly, Chist forgave them in his final dying exclamation "Forgive them Father for they know noe what they do." That is good enough for me

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Pontius Pilate is a fascinating story. Here is a cite that tells it

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/pilate.htm

Note the line "Let His Blood be on us and on our children!" is why many persecute the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ.

Also, the movie is meant to horrifying because it was a horrifying event and the Jews were the bad guys Interstingly, Chist forgave them in his final dying exclamation "Forgive them Father for they know noe what they do." That is good enough for me

Thanks.

In the preview DVD, they kept the line you just quoted above, but in the Primetime interview, Gibson said that it will be cut from the theater prints.

I just don't like what I've seen and judging from the reaction the film has had on audiences, I don't know if it will do a service or a dis-service.

[strandinthewind]

Altough I think the line should be in there, I am not upset he is cutting it. People like Hitler used this line to persecute the Jews. So, it is a good thing it is being cut even if inaccurate.

[wondergirl9847]

I'm a Christian...not Catholic tho. I don't like to put myself in any category. Anyways, I don't believe the Jews killed Jesus....the entire human race from the beginning of time to now to the future "killed" him. Sure, there were probably Jews (as well as others) at his crucifixtion, but to "blame" a certain type of people is absurd.

Jesus came to earth to die. That was his "secret ambition", to die for our sins so that we may go to be with Him in Heaven for eternity. God sent his only Son to die that whosoever believed in Him, will live forever. That was his purpose....and it was our sins that "killed" Christ.

Your Bible lesson for the day, kids.

I wanted to add that not every single fact that happened in history is stated in the Bible, so we have come to ASSUME many things as in....Jews were the ONLY ones who persecuted and were at Christ's death. How do we know this for 100%? We don't, we weren't there.

God will answer questions for us when the time comes...IMO. I have TONS to ask.

[darklinensuit]

As a Jew, a history teacher, and a person with quite an interest in and respect for Christianity, Mel Gibson's recent choices offend me on many levels. I won't even get into the subject of his dad. And I'm going to leave it at that.

- Jake

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I'm a Christian...not Catholic tho. I don't like to put myself in any category. Anyways, I don't believe the Jews killed Jesus....the entire human race from the beginning of time to now to the future "killed" him. Sure, there were probably Jews (as well as others) at his crucifixtion, but to "blame" a certain type of people is absurd.

Jesus came to earth to die. That was his "secret ambition", to die for our sins so that we may go to be with Him in Heaven for eternity. God sent his only Son to die that whosoever believed in Him, will live forever. That was his purpose....and it was our sins that "killed" Christ.

Your Bible lesson for the day, kids.

True and that is consistent with Christianity and its teachings. In other words, God is omnipotent - therefore he knew man would fail and kill his Son, who was part of Him in the Holy Trinity. But, it begs the question of why did God chose the Jews as his instrument when the Romans were pagans and antagonistic toward the Hebrew God of Abraham?

I find it all fascinating, esp. the point of view that the story of the agony of Christ can be told while still painting the jewish faith at that time in a good light

Note: The Jewish like the Catholic faith is no longer ruling bodies. Therefore, they are not like they were prior to about 200 years ago. So, comparing the faiths today to the faiths then is like comparing apples and oranges for the most part. Now the fundamentalist christians have taken over and are trying to assert their doctrines as the law.

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
But, it begs the question of why did God chose the Jews as his instrument when the Romans were pagans and antagonistic toward the Hebrew God of Abraham?

I find it all fascinating

Me too!!

I would say, perhaps, God was trying to show that even though the Jews were the chosen people....they have faults, just like every human on earth?



I'm not God, I dunno. LOL