"The affairs dented my self respect"

[Macfan4life]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...ycsrp_catchall

One of the great misconceptions about Fleetwood Mac is how Rumours came about. The band’s 11th album was designed, you often hear, to chronicle the breakdowns between three couples: Mick Fleetwood and his wife Jenny Boyd, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, and John and Christine McVie. As such, it’s often referred to as a “journey album”, even a “concept album”. There was no pre-planned structure. Drugs, booze, illicit sex and affairs simply took their toll, and as their relationships fell apart, Christine, Stevie and Lindsey all separately brought to the table cathartic pieces that laid bare their own pain, anger, despair – and a little hope.

As they began recording Rumours at the Record Plant Studios in Sausalito, California in February 1976, the band’s producer Ken Caillat soon got the measure of those five distinct personalities. Mick, for instance, was the leader, and a control freak: he would go all night if he could, and sod the home life. Stevie was “the new girl”, she and boyfriend Lindsey having joined the band only in January 1975, who was infuriatingly precious about “her words”. Woe betide anyone who suggested an alteration.

But of all the dynamics within the band, the McVies’ was the most fascinating. Singer and keyboard player Christine was the reluctant member, having quit her own fledgling music career to marry their bassist John, intending to become a housewife and, hopefully, a mother. Drifting into the line-up because she happened to be around when they needed backing vocals here, a bit of piano there, she quickly became an essential component, contributing not only cohesive keyboard-playing and blues-inspired songwriting but her aching and irresistible voice.

It was obvious to anyone who was paying attention that John, Mick’s trusty collaborator, “loved” her – but he also had the most dangerous mistress: the bottle. Christine knew that John was a drinker when she married him. ‘He drank to cope,’ she said, ‘with who he was and who he wasn’t.’ Divorce in the late sixties was a dirty word, but they lasted only eight years. Having called time on their impossible marriage, Christine appeared resigned. She was, nonetheless, able to rise above her feelings: she was still willing to work with John, provided he controlled himself and behaved like a mature adult. He could do this when he was sober, but he lamented their distance when in his cups. He must have known as well as Christine did that they were beyond reconciliation.

He may also have been wracked by jealousy. For Christine was now, in 1976, having an affair with a Fleetwood Mac hand: their suave lighting director, Curry Grant. Their relationship provided light, no-strings relief from the shame and heartache of her ruined marriage. Although the couple lived together for about a year at her West Hollywood home, she regarded their set-up as a convenience and reflected its status in her song You Make Loving Fun.


Christine’s affair with Curry was not her first. She had, three years previously “got tangled up… as my mother would say” with Martin Birch, the band’s married sound engineer. At 25, he was five years her junior. John was aware, and played tit for tat, with a string of groupies. He drank even more. The atmosphere during recording sessions for their 1973 album Mystery to Me became unbearable.

Although Birch, a loyal servant, had engineered five albums for the band, Mick and John fired him. (Grant was also fired, but only for a few months, to teach him a lesson – he was indispensable.).

Christine could have walked away – she was only 30 years old, talented and in her prime. She might have divorced John, cut her losses and resumed her solo career. Chicken Shack, the second-division pre-Fleetwood Mac blues outfit with whom she famously scored a hit with the Etta James cover “I’d Rather Go Blind”, would have had her back in a beat. But Christine knew the magical harmonies that she, Stevie and Lindsey conjured together were too precious to throw away.

Christine’s hesitation to walk away from such a destructive situation, she explained to me in the 90s, had been to do with a fear of “losing everything”: “I wasn’t brave enough, frankly. There was still the stigma of being divorced in those days. My pop [her father] would have been very, very disappointed in me. I didn’t dare do that to him. In some ways, thank God my mother wasn’t still alive to know about it.

Christine McVie in 1969: 'Fleetwood Mac had become the mistress of us all'
Christine McVie in 1969: ‘Fleetwood Mac had become the mistress of us all’ - P. Floyd/Daily Express/Hulton Archive/Getty Images
“Martin was never going to leave his wife. I loved him, but I didn’t want to be a mistress – horrible word – forever. It wasn’t as if I could leave John and go straight into a new set-up with Mart. That was never an option – he made that clear. Neither of us had money, it was still only wages. And I was, you know, John’s missus, not a person in my own right. There was no future in it.

“There was something seedy about [the affairs],” she went on, despondently, “that dented my self-respect. Maybe that was how the others made me feel. If they did, that would have been subliminal – nobody actually said anything, which in some ways made it worse. I didn’t like myself during that whole period. I sank very low.”


Maybe another part of her, I ventured, had thought it might work out with John eventually? “I don’t know,” Christine said. “I disliked my husband intensely for what he’d become, for what he was doing to me and to our marriage. We should have had kids by then. At least one, maybe. But in a way, thank God we didn’t. I could understand completely how things had gotten so bad. We hated the sight of each other. The booze numbed the pain, as did the drugs.

“Fleetwood Mac had become the mistress of us all. There was a sense by then that we could be on the verge of something, a breakthrough – dare I say it, the big time. The band had us by the short and curlies. She wasn’t going to let us go.”


Though the McVies’ union was over (and would be finalised in 1978), both remained married to the band. As for the Fleetwoods, Mick and Jenny had divorced in 1976, remarried four months later, but fell apart again almost immediately. Stevie and Lindsey had disintegrated. Stevie and Mick had a damaging affair. Now international superstars thanks to Rumours, 1977 became “their year”. They toured the world triumphantly, a travelling soap opera, knowing that nothing would ever be the same again. In 1979, they released their punk-infused album Tusk. That same year, Christine met and fell hopelessly for “The One”, Beach Boys drummer Dennis Wilson. The notorious, four-times-married, hell-raising womaniser was so wrong for her that she couldn’t let him go. She believed that she could fix him. He proposed.

Though when, given their punishing schedules, were they going to have time to get married? What about children? She’d had her fallopian tubes tied around the time of her divorce from John but she told me later that she’d looked into the possibility of reversing that.

Five years before her death, Christine would discuss her childlessness with Kirsty Young on BBC Radio 4’s Desert Island Discs. She now insisted that she had never wanted to be a mother.

Turning 40 proved devastating – her motherless status haunted her. Although she remarried in 1986, to Portuguese keyboard player Eddy Quintela, the marriage was a dud before it got off the ground.

The self-confessed ‘Daddy’s girl” was floored by her father Cyril’s death in July 1990. She found herself reliving the loss of her mother 22 years earlier, when she had swept her grief under the carpet. Her father’s passing rekindled that long-buried, unprocessed agony. “Losing Pop made me begin to look at my life differently,” she told me. “I could suddenly see that so much of it was pointless. Devoid of worth.

Christine McVie: 'No amount of money, I knew, could buy me love or peace of mind'
Christine McVie: ‘No amount of money, I knew, could buy me love or peace of mind’ - Fin Costello/Redferns
“A lot of [life],” she went on, “was going through the motions, and I was deferring actual living. For what? To satisfy the insatiable, ever-increasing demands of a record company? To keep the band going? To help keep the rest of them, the profligates, afloat? To make sure the fans carried on buying our records and seeing our shows, which in turn fed the record company? And there was that moment when I saw myself as a hamster in a wheel. I was rich beyond anything 15-year-old me could ever have imagined, ‘just’ from making music. But no amount of money, I knew, could buy me love or peace of mind. I woke up. I just didn’t want to live that lifestyle any more.”

Christine withdrew in 1990, and bought a manor house back in England. The band played on. Stevie Nicks was now immersed in a massive solo career. They regrouped for Bill Clinton’s presidential inauguration in January 1993, and four years later toured a live album, The Dance. After the New York performance at the Grammys, Christine left the band for good, blaming aviophobia, and moved into her renovated Kentish manor.

Rattling around in her huge home, lonely and depressed, she took up drinking and pills again. A fall down the stairs snapped her out of it. She could only go back. After therapy for fear of flying, she rejoined the Mac in 2014, 17 years after she had left. But her second coming would be short-lived. The health problems that blighted her final forays with the band ended her life in November 2022. She was 79.

Extracted from Songbird: An Intimate Biography of Christine McVie by Lesley-Ann Jones, published by Bonnier Books on Nov 14

[Macfan4life]

Chris's dad death totally changed Chris. After regrouping in late 1990 after his passing she announced she would no longer tour with the band. She even reluctantly agreed to record with them for Time. She was not thrilled about The Dance and refused to tour in Europe. In some ways, the death of her father was also the death of the post-Rumours line up.
In some weird way, Fleetwood Mac saved her life, getting clean and conquering her fear of flying and going full circle.

[bombaysaffires]

Wonder if the book covers the unhealthy relationship she had in Kent that ultimately led to the songs that became In the Meantime. It seems to skip right over it in this excerpt. It was part of her needing to straighten up, along with the alcohol/pills stuff during those years. Though that being said, she did put her time and energy into writing and creating an entire album.

[Macfan4life]

Reading how the recording sessions for Mystery To Me as "unbearable" sort of explains what Bob Welch said. He could not take it anymore. If Mystery To Me was that bad, we can only guess Heroes was the same or worse especially with Weston's recent firing for of all things.......having an affair.
In some sick and weird way, the dysfunction of Buckingham/Nicks sort of saved the band because Chris and John would probably think.......at least we are not that bad and we are not alone. Forward!

Its interesting to read about how fragile Chris was. She was always seen as the strong one. The one that no one messed with. But her words here about the early years and not wanting to divorce John because of what her father would think and she was too scared to walk away shows a side of Chris we don't normally see. Its unique to read about her fragility in the early years.

[Mr Scarrott]

It doesn't seem terribly well-written, I'm afraid.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Its interesting to read about how fragile Chris was. She was always seen as the strong one. The one that no one messed with. But her words here about the early years and not wanting to divorce John because of what her father would think and she was too scared to walk away shows a side of Chris we don't normally see. Its unique to read about her fragility in the early years.

yesss that was pretty fascinating. so interesting to see her viewpoint as to that time, because that's a period we've never heard much about from her. also very interesting to see that she also had kids on her mind in the beginning because she's not ever said much about that either, but she's right that it was probably good that they *didn't*. and if she'd divorced him then, we'd never have had the Rumours five...so i'm glad they hung in. after all that upheaval, it's interesting that john was sooo absolutely devastated/suicidal by the curry thing, when she left for good. i guess he didn't really see that coming, that she'd really end it. i maintain that he adored her but the drinking just really f*cked everything up so badly for so many years.

The only part i question is the part where jones said the marriage to ed was a dud from the start. george hawkins was pretty sure in what he told me that she reeeally loved him for a while, and tried her hardest to keep that marriage together for waaay longer than she should have. and he was very close to her at that time. but on the other hand i wonder if she also knew ed's reputation as well as others did when she married him...? or if she just chose to disregard that, just because she wanted 'to be married' and fulfil that happily ever after part that she could never get right.

i think if john read parts of this, he'd feel sad......but he certainly made it up to her in later years. he was a rock in her life until her dying breath. They did love each other.


--Lis

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

yesss that was pretty fascinating. so interesting to see her viewpoint as to that time, because that's a period we've never heard much about from her. also very interesting to see that she also had kids on her mind in the beginning because she's not ever said much about that either, but she's right that it was probably good that they *didn't*. and if she'd divorced him then, we'd never have had the Rumours five...so i'm glad they hung in. after all that upheaval, it's interesting that john was sooo absolutely devastated/suicidal by the curry thing, when she left for good. i guess he didn't really see that coming, that she'd really end it. i maintain that he adored her but the drinking just really f*cked everything up so badly for so many years.

The only part i question is the part where jones said the marriage to ed was a dud from the start. george hawkins was pretty sure in what he told me that she reeeally loved him for a while, and tried her hardest to keep that marriage together for waaay longer than she should have. and he was very close to her at that time. but on the other hand i wonder if she also knew ed's reputation as well as others did when she married him...? or if she just chose to disregard that, just because she wanted 'to be married' and fulfil that happily ever after part that she could never get right.

i think if john read parts of this, he'd feel sad......but he certainly made it up to her in later years. he was a rock in her life until her dying breath. They did love each other.


--Lis

That comment about Eddy through me for a loop too. She seemed really happy in 1984 and 1985 before they married. However it could have been one of those relationships that started to dissolve right after marriage. He seemed to be her biggest cheerleader for awhile. As she said, he would always keep her updated on chart positions of her songs. She even gave him writing credits so they must have written together some. We did get one awesome love song about Eddy "Nights in Estoril."
Fleetwood Mac is an odd band for many reasons. The couples issue is one of them. But they were not just couples. Each couple had major issues but each still would be the love of their entire life which impacted their life and the band. Chris and John were jealous of each other's affairs but eventually came full circle and got along. Stevie and Lindsey never went full circle but still had/have this jealous rage thing while were still writing songs about their relationship decades later.
What this small excerpt reveals is the Rumours saga of sleeping around was not new to the band at all. It just came more into focus with now 2 women in the band.
She had some very dark days in Kent. I am so happy she got well and experienced the joy of performing again for the fans. She really fed off that energy.
Because of her fragility or the "dent in her self respect" from the affairs could shed light on why she fell and stayed with Dennis. Many hurt women fall for guys that will hurt them.
I can only imagine how tense things were in the studio or on the road between Chris and John and then add Bob Weston's affair to the mix. It sheds some light on how miserable Bob Welch was. Being the only American with these Brits and these shenanigans was just too much.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Christine McVie: ‘No amount of money, I knew, could buy me love or peace of mind’ - Fin Costello/Redferns
“A lot of [life],” she went on, “was going through the motions, and I was deferring actual living. For what? To satisfy the insatiable, ever-increasing demands of a record company? To keep the band going? To help keep the rest of them, the profligates, afloat? To make sure the fans carried on buying our records and seeing our shows, which in turn fed the record company? And there was that moment when I saw myself as a hamster in a wheel. I was rich beyond anything 15-year-old me could ever have imagined, ‘just’ from making music. But no amount of money, I knew, could buy me love or peace of mind. I woke up. I just didn’t want to live that lifestyle any more.”

Christine withdrew in 1990, and bought a manor house back in England. The band played on. Stevie Nicks was now immersed in a massive solo career. They regrouped for Bill Clinton’s presidential inauguration in January 1993, and four years later toured a live album, The Dance. After the New York performance at the Grammys, Christine left the band for good, blaming aviophobia, and moved into her renovated Kentish manor.

It can be deduced that since the early 90s she wanted to get away from the hectic life of bands and tours. Or even before.

"It's like a living thing, this Fleetwood Mac. It's a source stronger than its various members. Christine McVie"

That quote is from Mick's book, written just after the "Comeback" chapter title; the one that describes the birth of Tango, its sessions, and Lindsey's departure. It's not specified when she said it. It could be during 1985-87, or any other time, though definitely before Behind the Mask was released, cause Mick ends the book mentioning that the album is in progress.

I'd like to know when she said that, cause it would be easier to understand if she still felt positively involved in an endless Fleetwood Mac, or that the band would continue to live without her, when she said that.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

That comment about Eddy through me for a loop too. She seemed really happy in 1984 and 1985 before they married. However it could have been one of those relationships that started to dissolve right after marriage. He seemed to be her biggest cheerleader for awhile. As she said, he would always keep her updated on chart positions of her songs. She even gave him writing credits so they must have written together some. We did get one awesome love song about Eddy "Nights in Estoril."
Fleetwood Mac is an odd band for many reasons. The couples issue is one of them. But they were not just couples. Each couple had major issues but each still would be the love of their entire life which impacted their life and the band. Chris and John were jealous of each other's affairs but eventually came full circle and got along. Stevie and Lindsey never went full circle but still had/have this jealous rage thing while were still writing songs about their relationship decades later.
What this small excerpt reveals is the Rumours saga of sleeping around was not new to the band at all. It just came more into focus with now 2 women in the band.
She had some very dark days in Kent. I am so happy she got well and experienced the joy of performing again for the fans. She really fed off that energy.
Because of her fragility or the "dent in her self respect" from the affairs could shed light on why she fell and stayed with Dennis. Many hurt women fall for guys that will hurt them.
I can only imagine how tense things were in the studio or on the road between Chris and John and then add Bob Weston's affair to the mix. It sheds some light on how miserable Bob Welch was. Being the only American with these Brits and these shenanigans was just too much.

Yeah it just shows that the drama brought by Stevie and Lindsey was not by any means new to this group of people. Just a different flavor of drama. It's funny how often times writers and even the band themselves like to present things that FM was a bunch of calm and reasonable Brits til the crazy Californians showed up....

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Yeah it just shows that the drama brought by Stevie and Lindsey was not by any means new to this group of people. Just a different flavor of drama. It's funny how often times writers and even the band themselves like to present things that FM was a bunch of calm and reasonable Brits til the crazy Californians showed up....

So true.
Do you think Sugar Daddy was about Birch? Was it about her life with John that he could pick her up in a big fancy car but when it comes to love he better leave her alone because someone was loving her for her? John had a vintage car collection. The Mac rolled up in a big classic old Cadillac when they met Stevie and Lindsey on New Years Eve 1974. Makes you wonder she was talking about John in that song as the Sugar Daddy but Birch was the one giving her love.
It gives these early Chris songs such new perspectives. And what the hell was John thinking when these songs were played in the studio.
Why just seems even sadder now. She was so heartbroken for real.
The miserable recordings of Mystery To Me and Rumours led to the most brilliant albums ever.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Villavic

It can be deduced that since the early 90s she wanted to get away from the hectic life of bands and tours. Or even before.

"It's like a living thing, this Fleetwood Mac. It's a source stronger than its various members. Christine McVie"

That quote is from Mick's book, written just after the "Comeback" chapter title; the one that describes the birth of Tango, its sessions, and Lindsey's departure. It's not specified when she said it. It could be during 1985-87, or any other time, though definitely before Behind the Mask was released, cause Mick ends the book mentioning that the album is in progress.

I'd like to know when she said that, cause it would be easier to understand if she still felt positively involved in an endless Fleetwood Mac, or that the band would continue to live without her, when she said that.

I've reordered a CASE of the special book lube you like so much...

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

So true.
Do you think Sugar Daddy was about Birch? Was it about her life with John that he could pick her up in a big fancy car but when it comes to love he better leave her alone because someone was loving her for her? John had a vintage car collection. The Mac rolled up in a big classic old Cadillac when they met Stevie and Lindsey on New Years Eve 1974. Makes you wonder she was talking about John in that song as the Sugar Daddy but Birch was the one giving her love.
It gives these early Chris songs such new perspectives. And what the hell was John thinking when these songs were played in the studio.
Why just seems even sadder now. She was so heartbroken for real.
The miserable recordings of Mystery To Me and Rumours led to the most brilliant albums ever.

i kind of think birch was sort of in the past by then...? that ended in late 73 i think, or maybe early 74. but she prob wrote sugar daddy in california in that whole new environment. maybe it was just a fun vibe... not about anyone in particular. unless she wrote it earlier!

john wasn't in the studio much in 73. you'd think the sadness of the songs would have hit him, but alcoholics live in denial. i will never forget george hawkins saying to me, 'i've known so few people who were really in control of their addictions.' i don't think john was able to see things clearly or change his behavior to any great degree, despite the love he had for chris.

--Lis

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Yeah it just shows that the drama brought by Stevie and Lindsey was not by any means new to this group of people. Just a different flavor of drama. It's funny how often times writers and even the band themselves like to present things that FM was a bunch of calm and reasonable Brits til the crazy Californians showed up....

i think bob welch would have had a lot to say about that !! lol he was well versed in the drama.

--Lis

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

i kind of think birch was sort of in the past by then...? that ended in late 73 i think, or maybe early 74. but she prob wrote sugar daddy in california in that whole new environment. maybe it was just a fun vibe... not about anyone in particular. unless she wrote it earlier!

john wasn't in the studio much in 73. you'd think the sadness of the songs would have hit him, but alcoholics live in denial. i will never forget george hawkins saying to me, 'i've known so few people who were really in control of their addictions.' i don't think john was able to see things clearly or change his behavior to any great degree, despite the love he had for chris.

--Lis

After he got sober, do you wonder if he really had any regrets?

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

i kind of think birch was sort of in the past by then...? that ended in late 73 i think, or maybe early 74. but she prob wrote sugar daddy in california in that whole new environment. maybe it was just a fun vibe... not about anyone in particular. unless she wrote it earlier!

john wasn't in the studio much in 73. you'd think the sadness of the songs would have hit him, but alcoholics live in denial. i will never forget george hawkins saying to me, 'i've known so few people who were really in control of their addictions.' i don't think john was able to see things clearly or change his behavior to any great degree, despite the love he had for chris.

--Lis

I looked it up and Chris was asked about the song and she said it was fantasy and not about anyone in particular. But who knows. I never bought her explanation that Oh Daddy was about Mick. Its so describing someone's relationship being dependent on a toxic lover or parental figure. Its far too personal to be about Mick. But I think when the 20th anniversary of Rumours came around it made sense to have a literal meaning of the song since Mick was the only father in the band. But I call her bluff