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  #61  
Old 05-04-2004, 08:44 PM
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[QUOTE=Les]
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
Wrong QUOTE]

Sorry, Strand, I will never see Stevie's behavior during the Tango sessions in the way that you do. I know she had a tour for part of the time. I know she has some personal problems for part of the time. With those things I sympathize and it's not something I hold against her. But I do not see her spending 10 days on an album as being a grand gesture of loyalty. I never will. She wanted to continue with the band. Lindsey did not. They made different choices.

As for who made the album. Who was there daily to put it together, to toss ideas around -- Lindsey & Christine.
I agree. But, the fact that Stevie went back at all and was willing to continue with all of the drama that LB could not deal with is a sacrifice by her you refuse to acknowledge. I think that is wrong and shows your clear bias against Stevie no matter what the facts state. But, if you do not see it now, you will never see it
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  #62  
Old 05-04-2004, 08:49 PM
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and FM must have wanted her back pretty bad to be willing to put up with her solo tour and her hospitalization for addiction. So, FM must have thought her input was of some merit? Otherwise, why wait?. Just do it without her? But, I think we all know they waited because without Stevie's input, TITN would not have sold as well. Then, when she gets there and makes the commitment despite what I am sure was pure hell for her after the addiction, LB says, I can't take it and he leaves. That is pretty horrible behavior on his part no matter what his excuse was and IMO shows a huge gesture on her part - she could have said see ya too and gone on to sell a million more solo records - yet she did not - she stuck it out. Yet, the LB supporters will NEVER EVER admit that Then, the tour sells out or at least very, very well without LB at the helm, which IMO is a HUGE insult to him if not irony esp. since the same cannot be said if Stevie had backed out instead of LB. So, the debate rages on . . .

Again, there are days I cannot stand to go to work and am not the most social when I get there. But, I am a professional and do it with a smile anyway no matter what I might think of my co-workers, etc.
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  #63  
Old 05-04-2004, 09:02 PM
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Finally, do not take anything I said as an insult to LB's musical genius. I like him and think he did a stelalr job on TITN mostly on his own. I think his songs are amngst the best he has ever done and I think he did a brilliant job with CM's already great stuff. I am just saying I think it was crappy for him to back out of a booked tour for personal reasons when the other four were willing to stick it out. I forgave him as a fan for this years ago. But, I still call a spade a spade.
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  #64  
Old 05-04-2004, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by strandinthewind
I think that is wrong and shows your clear bias against Stevie no matter what the facts state. But, if you do not see it now, you will never see it
Yes, my "clear bias against Stevie" is that I don't think she put much effort into the Tango album. Yep, I'm guilty. And of course the band wanted her around. She was an integral member of the band. I think it's just a shame that she wasn't much. I think they felt that way too.

Quote:
Then, when she gets there and makes the commitment despite what I am sure was pure hell for her after the addiction, LB says, I can't take it and he leaves. That is pretty horrible behavior on his part and IMO shows a huge gesture on her part -
She actually says she was sailing right after her rehab. Felt better than ever. (Sadly, then shortly thereafter she was talked into Klonopin where it seems she felt very little at all.)

That aside, I've always thought it odd that she, having spent next to no time on the album, felt justified in lecturing Lindsey on his commitment to the band when he finally confessed that he didn't want to tour. I don't think either one of them shine brightly on the grounds of immense loyalty there, or had much room to be slamming each other on the topic given the circumstances.

I don't think it's horrible behavior on his part because I don't measure his choices merely by how they affect Stevie. He made a choice that was best for his own life. Just as Stevie did when she left, and Christine has done now.
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:09 PM
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But, I still call a spade a spade.
Me too!
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  #66  
Old 05-04-2004, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
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I do not think and did not say that nobody else made sacrifices for this band, or that nobody else made an effort on Tango.
I think that is what you said here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les
Belittling the man's solo sales doesn't negate the fact that he stopped his personal project and gave two years of his life to the whole band instead. A band that he was thinking of leaving. It was a commitment that few in the band - perhaps only Christine - were willing or able to match. He could have left without doing the album. He could have insisted that they wait for him to do the solo album first. He could have insisted upon being allowed to do both, and just doing his personal little bits for Tango and then taking off again with little care about what else happend with the album. He didn't, thankfully.
Also, there were interviews at the time that said the band would send Stevie tracks on the road and she would work on those and other tracks and send them to the band. So, that adds time to Stevie's input and is further proof of her dedication to FM In the end, who really cares anymore but we hardheads
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:13 PM
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I think that is what you said here: <snip in the service of saving space>
I was talking about in relation to the Tango album. And again, I don't think anyone else in the band can say they were committed to the album in the way that Lindsey and Christine were.
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les
I don't think it's horrible behavior on his part because I don't measure his choices merely by how they affect Stevie. He made a choice that was best for his own life. Just as Stevie did when she left, and Christine has done now.
Actually, I was thinking, as i have mentioned before, of the probably hundreds of people that would have been out of a job if MF had not been able to replace LB's seemingly capricious decision to leave once the tour was booked. So, I was not thinking of Stevie. I was saying Stevie recognized her obligation and stuck it out. LB chose not to. Those are the facts.
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:15 PM
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Actually, I was thinking, as i have mentioned before, of the probably hundreds of people that would have been out of a job if MF had not been able to replace LB's seemingly capricious decision to leave once the tour was booked. So, I was not thinking of Stevie. I was saying Stevie recognized her obligation and stuck it out. LB chose not to. Those are the facts.
Sure, and without a great album to tour behind, there wasn't a tour to be booked.
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les
I was talking about in relation to the Tango album. And again, I don't think anyone else in the band can say they were committed to the album in the way that Lindsey and Christine were.
I know and agree with you that they made TITN what it was and, thankfully, they waited for SN, because her contributions on harmony and with Seven Wonders were significant. The other two songs are not as significant to me.
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  #71  
Old 05-04-2004, 09:16 PM
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Sure, and without a great album to tour behind, there wasn't a tour to be booked.
I agree, but that does not negate his leaving placing these jobs in jeapordy and the tour selling out or close to it without him
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:18 PM
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I agree, but that does not negate his leaving placing these jobs in jeapordy and the tour selling out or close to it without him
Nope it doesn't. I however do not place his personal mental health, or the mental health of any of the rest of them, beneath a job for somebody else.
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  #73  
Old 05-04-2004, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les
Sorry, Strand, I will never see Stevie's behavior during the Tango sessions in the way that you do. I know she had a tour for part of the time. I know she has some personal problems for part of the time. With those things I sympathize and it's not something I hold against her. But those situations didn't span two years, and I do not see spending 10 days on an album as being a grand gesture of loyalty or commitment to the band. I never will. After having spent virtually no time with the band during the recording, she was in for the tour. Having spent all of his time recording, Lindsey made another choice.
Well, in fairness, "some personal problems" were a decade+ cocaine addiction, a painful hole in her sinuses, and a stint in rehab. Which is quite a bit to be dealing with, while also trying to maintain one's professionalism and business commitments.

Stevie (and the rest of the band) has said that she was there "in the beginning," when the album was in the planning stages, but by the time recording commenced, she had embarked on the solo tour she was already committed to.
During the tour, she sent demos to Fleetwood Mac (including "Seven Wonders"), and stayed in touch with the band.
And when her solo tour was finished, she was rushed off to Betty Ford.

Once she was clean and sober, of course, she went into the studio with Fleetwood Mac... it just happened that by that time, the band was nearly finished with the album.

By the way, estimations place the start of recording on 'Tango' in Late-Spring/Early-Summer of 1986. The album was released in April of 1987... so the band didn't work without Stevie for two years. Sounds more like it was just under a year.

I'm not trying to paint Stevie as a martyr, but she could have just as easily cited "personal reasons" for not appearing on the album and/or not touring.
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:57 PM
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Note: I, too, get tired of Stevie saying she gave everything up for her music, but that does not negate the fact that she did
She did ... what? What do you "give up" for your "music"? A day job? Scrubbing toilets? Screaming kids? Waiting for your two weeks of vacation per year? Taking your car in twice a year for a lube & oil? Vacuuming the carpet? Cleaning the soap scum out of the shower? Balancing your checkbook & watching the money run down every month?

Suggested poll for all ledgies: Would you be willing to give up all of this for your music -- & make millions in the bargain? Tough choice, I know . . .

I mean, c'mon on!
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  #75  
Old 05-04-2004, 10:01 PM
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By the way, it's a pity that Christine's own forum has only been public for less than a week now, and we've already brought the Lindsey vs. Stevie debates here.
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