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  #16  
Old 05-21-2003, 07:33 PM
Rainman Rainman is offline
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From the first time I heard this song, I figured it was something about a model with a drug addiction, which is certainly a real-life issue--and in the bigger picture, a commentary on the whole glamour scene.

To me, Miranda represents women victimized on several levels: the abuse (emotional and/or physical) of a father, the pressure to live up to idealized images, the perpetuated fraud that the world of glamour is actually glamorous and, ultimately, Miranda's plunge into drugs to escape all of it.

Then again, maybe I'm giving this song way too much credit. Mabye it IS just another slam at Ms. Heche . . .
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  #17  
Old 05-24-2003, 05:26 AM
Tim Robinson Tim Robinson is offline
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Thumbs up Form vs Content

Lori says:
Quote:

The music/beat and subject matter are so contradictory to each other.
Yes indeed.
In most songs, the tune has the same mood as the lyrics.
When they don't match, the result is usually comical, eg "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" by the Beatles, a charming little ditty - almost a nursery rhyme - about a serial killer.

The contrast in "Miranda" is not so stark, so it is ironic rather than funny. The effect is one of detatchment, as if Lindsey doesn't care that Miranda is going to die.

(Confession of prejudice: Lindsey is a great musician, but I do not like him as a person. )
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  #18  
Old 05-24-2003, 05:28 AM
Tim Robinson Tim Robinson is offline
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Thumbs up Rainman

I shan't quote Rainman, but I agree with his entire post.
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  #19  
Old 05-24-2003, 08:46 AM
Rainman Rainman is offline
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Default Got me interested

Quote:
(Confession of prejudice: Lindsey is a great musician, but I do not like him as a person.
You have me interested. Why don't you like him? I've always found him (my only exposure being interviews and performances) to be a fairly warm and intelligent guy. I didn't know how much to believe of Mick's book, but even then I figured Lindsey to merely be a frustrated creative person with some hangups--as we all have.

Anyway, I'd like to hear your take on him, if you don't mind.
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  #20  
Old 05-24-2003, 10:55 AM
Lori Lori is offline
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Default Re: Form vs Content

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Robinson
When they don't match, the result is usually comical, eg "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" by the Beatles, a charming little ditty - almost a nursery rhyme - about a serial killer.
Interesting that you should mention nursery rhymes, as they are a very good comparison to draw to this type of song. A vast majority of nursery rhymes' origins are subjects hardly of a child's interest. They were inspired by things such as adults grumbling over the burden of paying taxes (Baa Baa Black Sheep; Jack Sprat), infidelity/womanizing (Oh Dear, What Can the Matter Be - "Johnny's so long at the fair'), and death/murder (London Bridge, Jack and Jill, and MANY others *yuck*). Over time, their origins have been forgotten. And now we would consider our children deprived if they didn't know these little ditties! So the "happy tune/crappy subject matter" theme apparently has been used for years and years!

As an aside...the origins of things like this have always fascinated me. To anyone who is familiar with the saying "the rule of thumb is..." - would you believe that originated in olden days (not sure how long ago), when a man was legally permitted to beat his wife with a stick, provided that the stick was no bigger around than his thumb? Hence, the "rule of thumb." I bet all the ladies back then were on the lookout for men with skinny thumbs!

Okay, now back to the topic at hand...

Lori
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  #21  
Old 05-24-2003, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: Form vs Content

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Robinson
The contrast in "Miranda" is not so stark, so it is ironic rather than funny. The effect is one of detatchment, as if Lindsey doesn't care that Miranda is going to die.
Irony is Lindsey's middle name.

Could I suggest to you that the detachment is a deliberate device he's used to indicate the narrator's helplessness and the inevitability of Miranda's fate? He's narrating her plight from an emotional distance because all he can do is watch, since Miranda "can't stand to be loved" and is "dying with all of her might".

It's a technique I've seen/heard used to good effect in many songs. The detachment and/or resignation of the narrator adds to the senselessness of the tragedy of Miranda's self-destruction.

To my way of thinking, if he didn't care about Miranda, he wouldn't be telling her story. It is, in some ways, forewarning others about the traps of this pattern and this lifestyle.
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Last edited by Les; 05-24-2003 at 01:35 PM..
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2003, 11:15 PM
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I think this another song about Stevie.

The camera, definantly drug reffrence.

The lion - it could be a reffrence to memories (bad)

"The Lion Still Rules Miranda" - someone said that "Miranda is Always alone " could be she never let's anyone close to her, so maybe the reason for not letting someon Too Close, could be bad memories


Just some thoughts
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2003, 12:24 AM
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Johnny Stew Johnny Stew is offline
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I have to admit I don't usually take part in lyrical interpretations, but The Chain posted about "Miranda" on the Rumours Forum, and I added a few thoughts in regards to my interpreation of the song... and I decided, "why not go one better, and add them to the interpretation thread!"

This is also my first time reading this particular thread, so I was kind of surprised to see that so many others also seem to think that "Miranda" was at least partly inspired by Anne Heche.

Here are my thoughts from my post on the Rumours Forum:
Quote:
Of the three most likely candidates from the 'Gift Of Screws' tracks ("Come," Miranda," and "Down On Rodeo"), "Miranda" is the one I thought most likely to have been written about Anne Heche.

"She sticks the camera right into her arm... anything to forget what the trouble's about," for me seems to refer to a tortured actress, living her life in front of cameras and in the public eye, as if it were a drug her body so desperately needed.

And I see references to Anne's apparent schizophrenia, in the lines, "She sees her face in another magazine, and the walls all close in as the fancy takes flight... can't stand to be loved, but she loves to be seen... she slips down head-long into the night."
To me Lindsey's painting a portrait of a woman definitely lost to the dual (and dueling) sides of her own personality.
She wants this attention... she craves it... she needs it. But, at the same time, she hates it and wants to run away from it.

The lion... the beast that's forever nipping at her heels... will always have dominance over her. She's a slave to it because she can't stop running away from it... and because of this, she'll always be alone.

With the knowledge that Anne has claimed her homosexual father sexually molested her (.) throughout her childhood and teenage years, Lindsey may be questioning the validity of these accusations:
"And there all at once, the sun starts to rise... she sees her father holding her down... but the daylight is poison to her eyes... she slips down the shade, and lets herself drown."

To me, it sounds as if he's stating there that, when held up to the light, Miranda's "truth" becomes distorted... revealed as just another myth she has created around herself, which she uses to justify her behaviour.
But the danger of being revealed causes her desire to remain in the dark... embracing, and relying upon, her fabrications in order to maintain her delicate psychological balance.

Anyway, that's how I see it.
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  #24  
Old 05-27-2003, 04:49 AM
Tim Robinson Tim Robinson is offline
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Default My reservations about Lindsey

I don't really want to go into this, but I did mention it and I guess you have a right to know why.
The easy answer is that he should have treated Stevie better.

I feel that he is the most "driven" member of the band, and more likely to drive over people than around them. When Stevie sings "Rulers make bad lovers, you'd better put your kingdom up for sale", I think we all know who she's talking about!

His songs about women are decidedly mocking, and even if he is being ironic, it leaves a bad taste.
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  #25  
Old 05-27-2003, 04:59 AM
Tim Robinson Tim Robinson is offline
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Cool the daylight is poison to her eyes

There have been some "deep" interpretations of this, but I like to take it at face value.
Drug addicts, the sleep deprived, the hungover - all find bright sunlight unbearable.
And Miranda is at least two out of three!
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  #26  
Old 05-28-2003, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
When Stevie sings "Rulers make bad lovers, you'd better put your kingdom up for sale", I think we all know who she's talking about!
Hmmm, well, I guess some people think that. Stevie has actually talked about that line in relation to herself too however.

Quote:
His songs about women are decidedly mocking, and even if he is being ironic, it leaves a bad taste.
It's too bad you feel that way. I disagree quite a lot. I think there is quite a bit more depth to many of Lindsey's works.
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Last edited by Les; 05-28-2003 at 09:02 PM..
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  #27  
Old 05-30-2003, 06:26 AM
Tim Robinson Tim Robinson is offline
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Default Which drug?

OK: Miranda is either schizophrenic or a drug addict. Or indeed, why not both? In any case the symptoms are similar: withdrawal, depression, fear, loneliness and psychosis (hallucinations).

I favour the drugs angle: she sticks the [needle] right into her arm. There are two drugs that can be taken this way.

Sherlock Holmes took cocaine by needle, but modern users (Al Capone, David Bowie, Stevie Nicks) generally snort it. Also, Miranda's photographs appear in magazines, so she wouldn't fill her skin with puncture marks - unless of course, she was past caring. Which brings us to heroin.

Heroin is the drug of last resort, the last step before suicide. It is perhaps the most powerful, most addictive and most direct of all drugs. It is not the sort of drug happy people take for fun, or artists take for inspiration. No one with any self respect or common sense will touch it. A heroin addict is indeed "dying with all of her might".

So I reckon she's taking heroin.
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  #28  
Old 05-30-2003, 06:48 AM
Tim Robinson Tim Robinson is offline
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Default Anne Heche? Could be.

I've read the interview, and Anne could be Miranda. The abuse angle certianly fits.

But what's the connection between her and Lindsey? She doesn't mention him in the interview.
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  #29  
Old 05-30-2003, 07:07 AM
Tim Robinson Tim Robinson is offline
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Default Some more suspects

I still think Miranda is a stereotype rather than an individual.
Another beautiful, famous, lonely, tortured, crazy, drug taking woman was Marilyn Munroe.

And what about Carrie Fisher, Elizabeth Taylor, or even (at a stretch) Princess Diana?
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  #30  
Old 06-07-2003, 11:25 PM
Lori Lori is offline
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Default Re: Anne Heche? Could be.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Robinson
I've read the interview, and Anne could be Miranda. The abuse angle certianly fits.

But what's the connection between her and Lindsey? She doesn't mention him in the interview.
The connection between them is that they had a relationship for a while, back in the early 90's I think? '93 sticks in my head for some reason... Les would know - LES??? Help?? They met on an airplane, I remember that. And I remember that she had no idea who he was, and didn't really even know much, if anything about Fleetwood Mac. I think he found that refreshing, from what I remember reading.

I know there was a quote on the Lindsey board at one point, with her version of the relationship and how it started. I think the quote was even from her autobiography. Not certain though...

Lori
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