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  #1  
Old 04-12-2020, 03:38 PM
sue sue is offline
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Default Say You Will

I know Iím in a minority, but I like Say you will..
It grew on me and it was definitely a slow burner.

I often wonder why Stevie disliked the Album...
Was it the actual recording of it, (there is the infamous Bob Dylan argument)?
Was it the fact that it is a very long album?....it is about 3 songs too long.
Or what? Something more obscure?
Anyone got any real ideas....I know some of you more educated Ledgies will have some decent theories.

If this has been discussed before, please accept apologies.
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  #2  
Old 04-12-2020, 04:01 PM
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I am with you that Say You Will is brilliant and Lindsey did an outstanding job. Stevie seems to jump on the bandwagon if something is not commercially successful. She stated that when she wrote Say You Will she thought instantly it would be a huge hit if she ever did write a hit. They spent so much time on the album and no doubt were disappointed in the sales and airplay. But there are many fans that think the same way if something is not commercially successful. Some of band's best music is the stuff that is not commercially popular.
I agree with Stevie the album could have been a bit shorter but hey.. the more material the better.
Here is why I love Say You Will:

Finally get the great Stevie songs Smile at you, Running through the Garden, and Thrown Down. Wow, she should have coughed them up earlier because these are some of her best written songs. Lindsey does them justice!!!

Illume is an outrageous poem about 9/11. How in the world do you put it to music. Buckingham shines with an angry growing musical orchestra that is so unpredictable that its confusing the first time you hear it. I think he captured the spirt and the unpredictability of 9/11 perfectly. Those that want pop songs can listen to Talk To Me instead.

Come. We get to hear Lindsey at extended play on an album. Nuff said

Everybody Finds Out - is a musical masterpiece and probably top 5 musical pieces from the Mac. The bass lines are out of this world. The percussion is a full orchestra. The music just builds and builds and then explodes. THIS should have been the first single off the album.

I don't think there are duds or any padding on this album. I love the opener, whats the world coming to.
Yes of course Christine would have been the icing on the cake but we cant change that.
This album gets flamed along with TOSOTM and Street Angel yet people will flock to songs on those albums as one of their favorites which is odd to me.

When this CD came out, I wore it out. I used to run down Ocean Drive every night with this CD playing. Gosh remember CD holders? Yeah, I was a bit old fashioned even for 2003 when digital music was coming out.

Its frustrating because Christine would have made the album so much better but she was not there.

As far as the album being too long...….I think Lindsey was very proud of all the songs and did not want to cut any. They all fit so WTH. IMHO Lindsey was just as creative as Tusk. I am not casting judgment but this is an album that I cant understand if you are a Mac fan how you cant appreciate this album. The music is so good even if you stripped all the vocals and singing.
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Last edited by Macfan4life; 04-12-2020 at 04:05 PM..
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  #3  
Old 04-12-2020, 06:31 PM
sue sue is offline
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The only song I donít like that much is...Come..
It kind of just grates, not a fan.

So you think the main reason Stevie didnít like it, is purely sales and finance.
The record didnít sell too good, so didnít make that much money...
Wow, I never thought that....
Iím not disagreeing itís a very good point, but isnít this supposed to be art..
Obviously not, and by 2003 itís just money, money, money.

Well someone should tell her, that itís a bloody good record and she should be proud...
I like it.
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  #4  
Old 04-12-2020, 07:04 PM
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I think the whole record is dark and depressing. There's no bounce to it.

Hmm, what(who) was missing?

I like Time better than SYW.
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  #5  
Old 04-12-2020, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sue View Post
I know I’m in a minority, but I like Say you will..
It grew on me and it was definitely a slow burner.

I often wonder why Stevie disliked the Album...
Was it the actual recording of it, (there is the infamous Bob Dylan argument)?
Was it the fact that it is a very long album?....it is about 3 songs too long.
Or what? Something more obscure?
Anyone got any real ideas....I know some of you more educated Ledgies will have some decent theories.

If this has been discussed before, please accept apologies.
not sure whether you are in the minority. in general seems that people who rank Tusk high / #1 Mac album rank SYW extremely high too. there is some fantastic stuff on this album. Lindsey was on the top of his game as all around still-innovative songwriter.
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Old 04-12-2020, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sue View Post
The only song I donít like that much is...Come..
It kind of just grates, not a fan.
.
haha see Come to me is the ultimate example of how fantastic Mac can be as a band going in different directions instead of resting on their past laurels. i love it, and live has been always amazing.
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Old 04-12-2020, 11:41 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Yes I think you’ve covered it. Everyone could predict going in that the album was not going to sell, at that stage in their lives. But then when you put 18 songs on it you ruined whatever small chance it had of catching fire. Plus you open it with two Lindsey songs, neither of which would necessarily appeal to her, and you have a recipe for disaster in her mind. And the recording process was no fun. Besides, I think she missed having Christine’s tunes in there, to balance out the Red Rovers. They tried to substitute for Christine, of course, but it is no surprise that Stevie was unhappy from dream catcher to album sequencing.

I like the album. There are places where the running order is mindnumbing. Tragically, people have fallen into comas during the back to back horror of Silver Girl and RTTG. Still, I was thrilled to have it. I consider Miranda, Thrown Down and EFO among my favorite FM songs.

Last edited by michelej1; 04-13-2020 at 09:56 AM..
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  #8  
Old 04-13-2020, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
not sure whether you are in the minority. in general seems that people who rank Tusk high / #1 Mac album rank SYW extremely high too. there is some fantastic stuff on this album. Lindsey was on the top of his game as all around still-innovative songwriter.
We think alike but most in this forum rank Tusk the top or #2 of all time favorite and Say You Will gets very little love so I understand being in the "minority" on this one.
I agree. SYW is so Tusk like. Look how people are describing SYW.....cold and without a bounce or over-produced or under produced. Sound familiar?
Allume sounds like Stevie is singing into a tube in a bathroom. Sound familiar? Too many songs. Too long. Tracking is not right. Sound familiar?
This is why both of us agree that SYW is really Tusk 2 without Christine. Of course its more slick than Tusk being 1978/1979 vs 2003.

Having said all this. I have one question to all the comments on this thread.
Would any of you say any of this to Bob Dylan??
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Old 04-13-2020, 07:49 AM
sue sue is offline
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The great thing about these threads, it makes you go back and listen to them again.
So Iíve just watched...Come and then Say Goodbye, live from 2004.
Just fabulous, even though Come is not my favourite song,still fab..
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Old 04-13-2020, 08:45 AM
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To me this is actually Stevie's best solo album.
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Old 04-13-2020, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sue View Post
The great thing about these threads, it makes you go back and listen to them again.
So Iíve just watched...Come and then Say Goodbye, live from 2004.
Just fabulous, even though Come is not my favourite song,still fab..
Come doesn't sound like a FM song.

I've told the story a million times, but I hadn't bought SYW yet when it came out(no Christine, so I wasn't in much of a rush). My cousin's roommate had bought the deluxe SYW and HATED it. She gave it to me. I asked her why she hated it so much. She said, "that Come song. It doesn't sound like FM. I can't stand it".

So at least Come got me a free deluxe SYW. But it's just too "experimental hard rock" for me, too.
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Old 04-13-2020, 10:52 AM
jmn3 jmn3 is offline
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Count me as a fan of the album since the beginning. It is absolutely too long and some of the tracks are filler but I think it is a very solid later-day Fleetwood Mac album and certainly something that shouldn't have just been forgotten about. The running order is certainly a head scratcher in many spots. Pare it down to the list below and I'd like it more, although I'd reorder the songs and pick some different singles:

WTWCT
Thrown Down
Miranda
Say You Will
Peacekeeper
Running Through the Garden
Steal Your Heart Away
Bleed to Love Her
Everybody Finds Out
Destiny Rules
Say Goodbye
Goodbye Baby

Contrary to many, I love Running Through the Garden. I think it could have been a tour de force live if they would have done it more than once. Likewise, Everybody Finds Out should have replaced Stand Back in the set for Stevie's "fast" song.

Smile At You was a total disappointment in the form that it was released. Silver Girl should have been shot into the sun via cannon. Murrow and Red Rover are just not FM enough. Come, to me, is like I'm So Afraid. Amazing live, a real dud on the album. I hated his voice on that track, whereas live I thought it rocked hard. Illume never did anything for me - it just lacks the emotion I'd figure a song with 9-11 in the title would have.
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Old 04-13-2020, 11:39 AM
lbfan lbfan is offline
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Say You Will, to me, is Buckingham Nicks II. I only have Lindseyís songs on my iPhone (and I am sure some only Stevieís songs on their device).
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Old 04-13-2020, 11:58 AM
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I loved this record too. But the song Say you will is not a fav of mine. One of the few Stevie songs I really don't like listening too. I love alot of Lindsey's stuff and Thrown Down and Destiny Rules are some of my fav songs on the album. The documentary looked as though everyone was enjoying doing the album except when it came to the mixing and the argument between Lindsey and Stevie. I think something on the road is what caused her dislike of the Say you will expeirence
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Old 04-13-2020, 12:16 PM
jmn3 jmn3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless child View Post
I loved this record too. But the song Say you will is not a fav of mine. One of the few Stevie songs I really don't like listening too. I love alot of Lindsey's stuff and Thrown Down and Destiny Rules are some of my fav songs on the album. The documentary looked as though everyone was enjoying doing the album except when it came to the mixing and the argument between Lindsey and Stevie. I think something on the road is what caused her dislike of the Say you will expeirence
Say You Will (the song) was as clear an attempt at filling Christine's absence as anything. It's not a bad song per se, but it's middle of the road. Nothing special. It's not what people want or expect from Nicks in the context of Fleetwood Mac. It certainly wasn't a good single choice for Fleetwood Mac in 2003 and the fact that it was pimped at every concert on that tour over some far superior Stevie tracks from the album has always been beyond me.
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