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  #46  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wetcamelfood View Post
I'm sure Chris will like me saying this but seriously I often wondered if this had to do with Walker joining since he was the lead singer for Savoy Brown at the peak of their popularity and SB fans heard he jumped ship and so they were curious to see what direction FM were going to go in (i.e. more like SB, and may have continued to follow them had Penguin sounded more like SB)? Just a thought.

John
With Walker on board I'm surprised the album didn't reach No. 1! Although perhaps he needed more vocals on the album to help it along????
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  #47  
Old 03-30-2013, 02:09 PM
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I thought this thread was dead.

I have enjoyed reading the interaction of us fans and even the off-topic responses (Dave Walker, Dave Mason, Traffic, etc)

Although I have nothing to contribute to the afformentioned...I found the MF's Blues Band revival w/ CM and Steven Tyler to be refreshing and the very least (or most) Entertaining!

This (IMO) would be an excellent combo to make an album and tour! I'd love to see this line-up live.
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  #48  
Old 05-11-2013, 06:57 AM
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Can I revive this thread? I'm listening to Time just now, and I really think this album (and forum, actually) need a bit more love. This isn't my favourite Mac album, but it's one of the few without a track that I dislike. I've really enjoyed reading some of your takes on it, as it's not an album that is often discussed.

I'm sorry to say, though, that I can't get into Bekka much as a lead singer. I think she's a gifted songwriter and I really enjoy her work in that regard, but her voice just doesn't pull me in, somehow. I keep imagining her songs being covered by some great country singer, and how mind-blowingly awesome that'd be. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to be imagining what an awesome cover Singer X would do when you're listening to the original version of a song, though. Sorry Bekka!

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Originally Posted by chiliD View Post

I think whoever tracked the songs did a horrid job, basically magnifying the disjointed feel of the album. Thanks to the capability of reprogramming the running order of a CD (and now with iTunes playlists), a more flowing tracking CAN be obtained. Once again, here's what I came up with:

I DO
TALKIN' TO MY HEART
I WONDER WHY
WINDS OF CHANGE
SOONER OR LATER
DREAMING THE DREAM
NIGHTS IN ESTORIL
NOTHING WITHOUT YOU
I GOT IT IN FOR YOU
HOLLYWOOD (SOME OTHER KIND OF TOWN)
BLOW BY BLOW
THESE STRANGE TIMES
ALL OVER AGAIN
Thanks for this tracklist! I'm excited to try it out. I agree that the tracklisting is particularly jarring on this album. Talkin' To My Heart is probably one of my favourite Mac tunes of all, and a really strong album opener, and then it doesn't really feel like it has an album to follow it at all. The whole album really feels like someone hit "shuffle" in a playlist with (at least) two different albums in it.

ETA: Also, can I gush over the cover? It might just be me, but I find something beautifully simple and clever about it. Could've become iconic if the music within had been better received.

Last edited by Dex; 05-11-2013 at 07:00 AM..
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  #49  
Old 05-11-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Dex View Post

ETA: Also, can I gush over the cover? It might just be me, but I find something beautifully simple and clever about it. Could've become iconic if the music within had been better received.
I always liked the cover, too.

The album does have one of my fave songs by Christine: 'Sooner Or Later'.
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  #50  
Old 05-11-2013, 07:45 PM
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"Talkin' To My Heart" is one of the Mac's best ever. (So was "Inuition" ...)

They could've been great, but they chose the chicken sh*t (don't ban me, bro -at least this time) way out.
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  #51  
Old 05-12-2013, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
"Talkin' To My Heart" is one of the Mac's best ever. (So was "Inuition" ...)
I'm glad it's not just me who loves that song. It's really something wonderful, isn't it?

I actually quite like the SYW-lineup of the band, but it is always interesting to imagine what might/could have been, if the band had just been more comfortable completely rebooting itself at that point.
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  #52  
Old 05-12-2013, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wetcamelfood View Post
I'm sure Chris will like me saying this but seriously I often wondered if this had to do with Walker joining since he was the lead singer for Savoy Brown at the peak of their popularity and SB fans heard he jumped ship and so they were curious to see what direction FM were going to go in (i.e. more like SB, and may have continued to follow them had Penguin sounded more like SB)? Just a thought.

John
One the main reasons Penguin charted higher than Mystery was that the Mystery tour was aborted after a few weeks. The band didn't have the opportunity to promote the record. But before that, all the Mac albums from Future Games onward showed a steady climbing in the charts. If they had properly toured Mystery that would most likely have been the first Pre-BN record to crack the top 40.
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  #53  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by chriskisn View Post
Funny thing about Dave Mason is that I actually like his songs on Time way better than I like his solo stuff up until that point.

While he is my least favourite FM member, I do accept that after FM he became a hell of a lot "cooler" than in the years before. Perhaps Mick saw that potential and it just wasn't realised until he left FM? Plus, from the occasional old clip that I've seen he really was a damn fine guitarist even if you don't usually get to see that side of him.
His "Time" with Fleetwood Mac was so bizarre to me. I was more familiar with him through his association with Cass Elliot of the Mamas and Papas. That band wrote the reference road book for the interpersonal relationships, dysfunction and indulgences that Fleetwood Mac would experience a decade later. In 1972 Dave and Cass together released a great album. How could I ever imagine him joining Fleetwood Mac?:
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  #54  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by PenguinHead View Post
His "Time" with Fleetwood Mac was so bizarre to me. I was more familiar with him through his association with Cass Elliot of the Mamas and Papas. That band wrote the reference road book for the interpersonal relationships, dysfunction and indulgences that Fleetwood Mac would experience a decade later. In 1972 Dave and Cass together released a great album. How could I ever imagine him joining Fleetwood Mac?:
Off the top of my head I remember that Dave Mason was in a beat type group The Hellions about when Mick was in The Cheynes, maybe their paths crossed a fair bit starting then. When he was with Traffic they were famous for going out into the country communally living and working to get their sound together, which example FM followed at Kiln House and then Kinfauns. Dave never quite jelled with Traffic and left, and returned, and left again. Not surprising he didn't fit in Fleetwood Mac really either. Not really a group kind of person it would seem, he wrote alone and just needed others to record, that sort of situation.

He had some fairly sizable hit compositions... Feelin' All Right and Hole In My Shoe with Traffic. You Can All Join In was also popular. Solo he charted with his 'Alone Together' album on the Blue Thumb label (home also of Love and Dan Hicks at the time among others) and We Just Disagree got lots of airplay in the late '70s. He also played second guitar on some Jimi Hendrix sessions.

The album with Cass is a gem I think but have seen it totally slagged by some, if nothing else it has it's own unique sound in a sea of early '70s conformity, and some genuinely interesting lyrics that would have been at home on a Television album. I'd never part with it myself!

The Mamas & Papas really set the bar high for self-destructive behaviours it's true, Buckingham and Nicks are fly weights really next to Papa John finding Mama Michelle in bed with Papa Denny shortly after they'd signed a multi album deal with Dunhill. Cass had a thing for Denny who just about killed himself in a drunken motorcycle accident the next day (and you can see his chest bandage in some early promo photos). All this before the first album release. Basically Cass got out of there as soon as possible which was having fulfilled the Dunhill contract (only they added a fifth album on to it and she had to go back). John almost killed her making her do endless takes in the studio, and the pressure to diet on top. The same people helped kill Karen Carpenter is all I can say.
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  #55  
Old 05-22-2013, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by becca View Post
Off the top of my head I remember that Dave Mason was in a beat type group The Hellions about when Mick was in The Cheynes, maybe their paths crossed a fair bit starting then. When he was with Traffic they were famous for going out into the country communally living and working to get their sound together, which example FM followed at Kiln House and then Kinfauns. Dave never quite jelled with Traffic and left, and returned, and left again. Not surprising he didn't fit in Fleetwood Mac really either. Not really a group kind of person it would seem, he wrote alone and just needed others to record, that sort of situation.
.
Don't think it was that he didn't jell with Traffic, I think it was more that there was some serious mutual dislike between he & Steve Winwood, which apparently had its roots back when Dave was a roadie for the Spencer Davis Group. Why Steve wanted to include Dave in Traffic in the first place was kind of a mystery in itself.

Even Eric Clapton, when forming Derek & The Dominos, pretty much tossed him to the curb, telling the press in a very graceful way that Dave was "a great songwriter & needed his own band". Dave had played on the two songs of their first single ("Tell The Truth"/"Roll It Over"*) that got recalled the same day it was released for some reason (both were really good songs, I thought). He was in the studio with the rest of the Dominos during the sessions for George Harrison's All Things Must Pass...also, Dave had been playing along with Clapton in Delaney & Bonnie and Friends...when Eric got the heart of the D&B band to be Dominos, I think Dave kind of assumed he'd be a Domino, too.

That he spent so many months nagging Mick to let him in Fleetwood Mac is kind of odd, considering he's NOT really made to be a sideman or band member. He seems to be made of the cloth that wants to call the shots.

(and considering his history with Steve Winwood, I'm surprised that he was so bent out of shape for not being included in Traffic's 1994 reunion tour; basically since he was already on the road with Fleetwood Mac at the time)



*=(the single versions of those songs can be heard on Eric's first Crossroads box set and the recent 40th Anniversary deluxe edition of Layla & OALS)
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  #56  
Old 05-22-2013, 05:03 PM
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That he spent so many months nagging Mick to let him in Fleetwood Mac is kind of odd, considering he's NOT really made to be a sideman or band member. He seems to be made of the cloth that wants to call the shots.
He probably assumed Christine's role would be limited to a couple of songs, and Bekka was still wet behind the ears, so he probably thought he WOULD be calling the shots. Having Billy come back changed everything.
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  #57  
Old 05-22-2013, 06:14 PM
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Why Steve wanted to include Dave in Traffic in the first place was kind of a mystery in itself.
Jim Capaldi was with Dave in The Hellions, I think probably the Traffic project grew from The Hellions to a certain extent.

I know Winwood was very unfond of the Hole In My Shoe single getting a lot of airplay, feeling it was not representative of the Traffic sound. I know they did contribute to at least one of Mason's songs with Traffic but seems to have been under duress for him to share credit or collaborate.
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  #58  
Old 07-09-2013, 10:56 PM
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Time, as it was released, was pretty much a "compromise" album. WB had rejected the original album that was submitted with the title Another Link In The Chain due to Christine's complete absence from the album. It was all Bekka, Billy & Dave's compositions. Christine's songs were hurredly recorded & assembled in order to comply with WB's demands that (supposedly) she was contractually obligated to appear on Fleetwood Mac albums.
According to Wikipedia, This album was also the first that failed to make the charts in the US. With no Stevie and Lindsey, and a barely presence of Christine, I guess nobody was enough interested in releasing a single, but I thought the record company always try to sell a record, so a single should always exist, or so I believed.

But no single was released, was it? At the Wikipedia page of this album, there is no single mentioned. Don't know how reliable are its sources.

And if any song was intende to be a single, I guess the record company would have selected a Christine song, don't you think?
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  #59  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:43 AM
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According to Wikipedia, This album was also the first that failed to make the charts in the US. With no Stevie and Lindsey, and a barely presence of Christine
Christine sang lead on FIVE songs, more than Billy Burnette and Dave Mason COMBINED! She DOMINATED that record.

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I guess nobody was enough interested in releasing a single, but I thought the record company always try to sell a record, so a single should always exist, or so I believed.
"I Do" was released, and I think "Winds of Change" was, too.

By the time it was released, Christine was out and Mick was working with Lindsey. The record company would likely rather have paid a large advance on a Lindsey-Mick record than on promoting a new Fleetwood Mac album knowing Christine McVie was no longer in the band.

What always kills me is how people talk about how it was such a huge failure (and it was), but fail to mention that Stevie and Lindsey also hit the skids in album sales around that time, and they promoted and toured behind their albums. The "Time" band was basically done by the time the album was released.
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  #60  
Old 07-19-2013, 01:51 AM
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Off the top of my head I remember that Dave Mason was in a beat type group The Hellions about when Mick was in The Cheynes, maybe their paths crossed a fair bit starting then. When he was with Traffic they were famous for going out into the country communally living and working to get their sound together, which example FM followed at Kiln House and then Kinfauns. Dave never quite jelled with Traffic and left, and returned, and left again. Not surprising he didn't fit in Fleetwood Mac really either. Not really a group kind of person it would seem, he wrote alone and just needed others to record, that sort of situation.

He had some fairly sizable hit compositions... Feelin' All Right and Hole In My Shoe with Traffic. You Can All Join In was also popular. Solo he charted with his 'Alone Together' album on the Blue Thumb label (home also of Love and Dan Hicks at the time among others) and We Just Disagree got lots of airplay in the late '70s. He also played second guitar on some Jimi Hendrix sessions.

The album with Cass is a gem I think but have seen it totally slagged by some, if nothing else it has it's own unique sound in a sea of early '70s conformity, and some genuinely interesting lyrics that would have been at home on a Television album. I'd never part with it myself!

The Mamas & Papas really set the bar high for self-destructive behaviours it's true, Buckingham and Nicks are fly weights really next to Papa John finding Mama Michelle in bed with Papa Denny shortly after they'd signed a multi album deal with Dunhill. Cass had a thing for Denny who just about killed himself in a drunken motorcycle accident the next day (and you can see his chest bandage in some early promo photos). All this before the first album release. Basically Cass got out of there as soon as possible which was having fulfilled the Dunhill contract (only they added a fifth album on to it and she had to go back). John almost killed her making her do endless takes in the studio, and the pressure to diet on top. The same people helped kill Karen Carpenter is all I can say.
Wow. You know your stuff, And I learned a lot more about Dave Mason's history. Thanks for the info. Glad to find a Ledgie who has extensive knowledge of the Mamas and Papas. In Matt Greenswald's book about them contains a rare photo I gave to him. My name is credited under it, but it's not PenguinHead! And you're probably right about them being more debouched than Fleetwood Mac ever was.
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Last edited by PenguinHead; 07-19-2013 at 01:55 AM..
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