Lindsey is sooooo serious (SN q&a clip)

[CADreaming]

^Well, no worries. They don't want Stevie recording with Lindsey anyway...

[vivfox]

This thread has been much fun to read. Everyone's opinions have been very entertaining. I'm so glad Stevie just did 2 different Q&A sessions because it made The Ledge come alive again and frankly my friends, that's a good thing.
I love you all,
Viv

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

And why do people who really do not know Stevie as a musician automatically discredit any possibility that she could have composed her classic songs all by herself? Not only is this thinking irrational, it strikes me as being thinly-veiled sexism.

Call it what you will, but I hardly think it is sexism since the same thing would NOT be said of Christine.

Michele

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Call it what you will, but I hardly think it is sexism since the same thing would NOT be said of Christine.

Michele

Well, that would be an interesting discussion, wouldn't it? I am inclined to think that people would generally assume that Lindsey was responsible for co-writing Christine's songs as well. But then again, I also personally believe that Christine is somehow given a pass because she unintentionally projected an air of stereotypical "masculinity;" her image was never sexualized like Stevie was in the 70s and 80s. Plus she participated in FM in a stereotypically masculine role- the main songwriter and instrumentalist- a role that was extremely rare for women in a mainstream rock and roll band at that time. In other words, perhaps she is subconsciously given more credibility as a musician because of her masculine energy and the fact that she did not project a more stereotypically female image (like Stevie). Would Christine be taken as seriously if she wore ballet leotards, chiffon, scarves and capes on stage? I think it would be impossible to answer this question, but I do think gender roles in rock music is a real issue.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Well, that would be an interesting discussion, wouldn't it? I am inclined to think that people would generally assume that Lindsey was responsible for co-writing Christine's songs as well. But then again, I also personally believe that Christine is somehow given a pass because she unintentionally projected an air of stereotypical "masculinity;" her image was never sexualized like Stevie was in the 70s and 80s. Plus she participated in FM in a stereotypically masculine role- the main songwriter and instrumentalist- a role that was extremely rare for women in a mainstream rock and roll band at that time. In other words, perhaps she is subconsciously given more credibility as a musician because of her masculine energy and the fact that she did not project a more stereotypically female image (like Stevie). Would Christine be taken as seriously if she wore ballet leotards, chiffon, scarves and capes on stage? I think it would be impossible to answer this question, but I do think gender roles in rock music is a real issue.

You know, I've kidded you about man-hands Christine comments before, but the truth is, I honestly don't understand this perception that Christine is not feminine. She seems completely feminine to me. I would see your point if she was KT Oslin or Ellen Degeneres, but she isn't. Did she wear ballet leotards? No, but I don't see that as a mark of femininity anyway. If we're talking attire, I think more women dress like Christine than Stevie.

My mother is visiting from Michigan and I woke up and she had her coffee sitting on a Christine coaster I bought from Etsy, a set of coasters made from Christine's solo album. The idea of a coffee ring on one of them kind of freaked me out. She didn't know it was just for decoration. But anyway, that image from the coaster of Christine, before her piano, red dress flowing in the breeze . . . it said nothing but woman to me. I think she is accepted as being as talented a musician as any of the men were because she WAS as talented, not because she butched it up. And certainly the lyrical content of many of her songs is very pliant and passive on the surface, but no one says that about her musicianship.

Michele

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by michelej1

You know, I've kidded you about man-hands Christine comments before, but the truth is, I honestly don't understand this perception that Christine is not feminine. She seems completely feminine to me. I would see your point if she was KT Oslin or Ellen Degeneres, but she isn't. Did she wear ballet leotards? No, but I don't see that as a mark of femininity anyway. If we're talking attire, I think more women dress like Christine than Stevie.

My mother is visiting from Michigan and I woke up and she had her coffee sitting on a Christine coaster I bought from Etsy, a set of coasters made from Christine's solo album. The idea of a coffee ring on one of them kind of freaked me out. She didn't know it was just for decoration. But anyway, that image from the coaster of Christine, before her piano, red dress flowing in the breeze . . . it said nothing but woman to me. I think she is accepted as being as talented a musician as any of the men were because she WAS as talented, not because she butched it up. And certainly the lyrical content of many of her songs is very pliant and passive on the surface, but no one says that about her musicianship.

Michele

Oh, I agree with you that Christine has her own brand of (subtle) femininity. But the key distinctions between she and Stevie are that Stevie did not play a stereotypically masculine role in the band and Christine was not sexualized/objectified the way Stevie was. For all intents and purposes, Christine was just "one of the guys." It had nothing to do with her physical appearance (okay, well maybe just a smidge ) and everything to do with her perception. If she twirled and danced in a graceful, feminine way, would that have detracted from her image as a serious musician?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Oh, I agree with you that Christine has her own brand of (subtle) femininity. But the key distinctions between she and Stevie are that Stevie did not play a stereotypically masculine role in the band and Christine was not sexualized/objectified the way Stevie was. For all intents and purposes, Christine was just "one of the guys." It had nothing to do with her physical appearance (okay, well maybe just a smidge ) and everything to do with her perception. If she twirled and danced in a graceful, feminine way, would that have detracted from her image as a serious musician?

Well, you're right, we can't know. But I just think of the Dixie Chicks, Martie and Emily seem to be stronger musicians than Natalie to me. Martie and Emily don't twirl, but they do stand up there center stage in a graceful and feminine way and I think they are considered strong musicians and, actually, I think they're more what people perceive of as traditionally feminine than Natalie is.

As for the perception of Stevie, maybe it has to do with HER and not her sex. She admits she's neither a good guitar player or piano player. Maybe that's why people discount her as a musician and not because of her gender.

She has said, "I write my songs, but Lindsey puts the magic in, and there's no way... well, I could pay him ten percent. I could walk up to him and thank him. If I were to play you a song the way I wrote it and gave it to them, and then play you the way it is on the album, you would see what Lindsey did."

Or like she told Courtney Love:

I would sit down and play him Gold Dust Woman on the guitar, my simple little version, and two days later it would be recorded, and it would be recorded really well. He could take my songs and do what I would do if I had his musical talent. When he wasn’t angry with me, that is. That’s why there’s seven or eight great songs, and there’s 50 more where he wasn’t happy with me and didn’t help me.

Stevie's comments like that over the years have got to have as much to do with her being discounted as a musician as the fact that she's a female do. I mean when Ken said that none of the Macsters could read music, we all jumped in and said Christine could, because we knew her history. We know that she was classically trained and we bring that kind of background to the table when we come to conclusions about these people. The background we have for Stevie is much different than Christine's and I don't think it's because Christine wasn't swirling.

Michele

[elle]

Originally Posted by vivfox

This thread has been much fun to read. Everyone's opinions have been very entertaining. I'm so glad Stevie just did 2 different Q&A sessions because it made The Ledge come alive again and frankly my friends, that's a good thing.
I love you all,
Viv

i was just saying that to somebody - lots of activity

nice to see mostly civilized discussions too, and people just having fun!

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by elle

i was just saying that to somebody - lots of activity

nice to see mostly civilized discussions too, and people just having fun!

I agree! It's nice to actually have something to disagree about!

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

^Well, no worries. They don't want Stevie recording with Lindsey anyway...

Haha!! I felt like that one was just for me.

[jbrownsjr]

I think Stevie looks fantastic. Better than she has in recent years. I thought she was pretty complimentary to LB. She has a ton of respect for his talent.

Here's what I see, I see someone with a long long history feeling comfortable chatting about the things she loves and hates about an amazing partnership that still exists.

If the lyric thing still sticks in her craw.. well then go ahead and keep venting. I love the hint of her saying, "Hey, I'm legendary and dammit I'll write the way I want!" Ok maybe more than a hint. I do think if you sell millions of records and have many hits, you can in fact write in whatever tense you want. At the end of the day, you want people to listen and buy and perform for.

I'm enjoying Stevie a lot lately and don't think she was trying to be intentionally rude.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by elle

i was just saying that to somebody - lots of activity

nice to see mostly civilized discussions too, and people just having fun!

You just like all the attention... lol

[elle]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

You just like all the attention... lol

but of course!

i did try to start some discussion in CM forum too, btw.


i freely admit that i'm biased and perhaps overly defensive when it comes to LB. (and i'm not alone!) similarly, i know there are many SN diehards who realize they are the same re their queen of chiffon, whether they want to admit it or not.

re knowing LB - i don't remember anybody in this thread stating they know LB. personally, i definitely can't say that i know him - all together i talked to him maybe about an hour.

although, it can be debatable whether your ex, with whom you had on/off, love/hate relationship for 45 years, would be the most objective person to talk about you either.

what people were stating were some facts, such as:

• i saw / got to meet LB numerous times
• he smiles a lot and had some huge laughs during those times
• SN said in her q&a that LB used to smile and laugh before joining FM, but not much since, and that he is always very serious
• she stated as her / DS's big achievement that they managed to make LB smile and laugh.

on the basis of such facts, people who met him, saw him smile often and didn't have much difficulty in making him laugh out loud, were puzzled as to why is making LB smile such big achievement, and why is he being portrayed as an always overly serious person.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by elle

but of course!

i did try to start some discussion in CM forum too, btw.


i freely admit that i'm biased and perhaps overly defensive when it comes to LB. (and i'm not alone!) similarly, i know there are many SN diehards who realize they are the same re their queen of chiffon, whether they want to admit it or not.

re knowing LB - i don't remember anybody in this thread stating they know LB. personally, i definitely can't say that i know him - all together i talked to him maybe about an hour.

although, it can be debatable whether your ex, with whom you had on/off, love/hate relationship for 45 years, would be the most objective person to talk about you either.

what people were stating were some facts, such as:

• i saw / got to meet LB numerous times
• he smiles a lot and had some huge laughs during those times
• SN said in her q&a that LB used to smile and laugh before joining FM, but not much since, and that he is always very serious
• she stated as her / DS's big achievement that they managed to make LB smile and laugh.

on the basis of such facts, people who met him, saw him smile often and didn't have much difficulty in making him laugh out loud, were puzzled as to why is making LB smile such big achievement, and why is he being portrayed as an always overly serious person.

Maybe it's hard for her to make him smile. Or to make him smile in a work situation.

Besides, the interviewer fed her that line. She never said anything about him smiling until he goes, "He seems so serious. It's just like, Lindsey, smile!" (or something of that nature) and she just responded "And we got him to smile!" (or something like that.)

[elle]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

Maybe it's hard for her to make him smile. Or to make him smile in a work situation.

maybe.

Originally Posted by WildHearted

Besides, the interviewer fed her that line.

well, she doesn't have to agree with the interviewer if she has a different opinion, does she?


you know, another thing that surprised me about Lindsey -
from everything i've heard i expected a diva-like guy who doesn't want to hear anything but high praise and adoration.
but the man can actually take criticism, suggestions, and teasing without any problems, and give you some honest answers.