The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > Christine McVie
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 02-06-2015, 08:59 AM
aleuzzi's Avatar
aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,983
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
It was a lot harder to hear the "Chain" connection in the "Butter Cookie" they used in 2005 (the one that sounds like the Bob Welch era) than in this latter one from the most recent reissue. The chord progression of the chorus is right there in it, as is the whole coda.

And then there's the following, which is the "Chain" verses being worked out lyrically and musically. The chords and picking style of the final verses obviously came from Lindsey.

The Chain Writing 02

The Chain Writing 03

Given all the pieces we have from all three writers, I think it's safe to say that we have a very clear picture of how that song was concocted. It used to be a major mystery, but it is no longer.
Exactly. Well said.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-06-2015, 11:10 PM
PenguinHead's Avatar
PenguinHead PenguinHead is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,471
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
No confusion. The story of a The Chain's inception has been well-documented.

I must flatly disagree with you that this unfinished version of Keep Me There is "barely recognizable" as a precursor to The Chain. Much of the background music on the bridge and choruses is identical. The instrumentation for the verses was reworked, but even then the roots to the original are readily apparent.
You are correct. I just misstated my point. Of course the roots are there.

However it wasn't a matter of Lindsey rejecting a Christine song. It's an example of the creative process, where the groundwork or elements of a demo are utilized to greater effect in forming another song.

I'm still amazed that they released this nugget. Makes me wonder if there are others like that. What's really curious is the Gold Dust Woman demo that flows into the end-parts of what was to become her solo song If You Ever Did Believe.
__________________
Life passes before me like an unknown circumstance

Last edited by PenguinHead; 02-06-2015 at 11:21 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-06-2015, 11:50 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Coast
Posts: 6,237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
No confusion. The story of a The Chain's inception has been well-documented.

I must flatly disagree with you that this unfinished version of Keep Me There is "barely recognizable" as a precursor to The Chain. Much of the background music on the bridge and choruses is identical. The instrumentation for the verses was reworked, but even then the roots to the original are readily apparent.
^Yes. the whole second half of The Chain is directly from Keep Me There…from John's bass solo until the end of the song is straight from Keep Me There.

In the first half of the song the chorus "if you don't love me now…" until "never break the chain" is from Stevie.

Lindsey wrote the verses "listen to the wind blow" up to "and if you don't love me now"

I think John and Mick got writing credit because they helped write the music on that second half from Keep Me There, i.e. john wrote his bass solo which is a highlight of the song and Mick…. not entirely sure what he did on this that would be different from what he does on every other song…..

Lindsey was the one who heard these two songs, from Stevie and Christine, and had the idea that if they took this bit from Stevie and that bit from Chris it would make a better, new song.

My recollection is that they really like that second half of Chris's song, the part that became the whole second half of The Chain, but wanted something different to lead into it. That's when Lindsey thought of Stevie's song, he like the chorus but not her verses, and asked her if they could use it and she said, "well you are killing my song because you are taking the chorus out of it" but it worked so they did it, and kept her title. He then wrote the verses in.

Last edited by bombaysaffires; 02-06-2015 at 11:54 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-07-2015, 01:14 PM
David's Avatar
David David is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 14,905
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
^Yes. the whole second half of The Chain is directly from Keep Me There…from John's bass solo until the end of the song is straight from Keep Me There.
No, it's actually even before that. The stanza from "Keep Me There" that goes:

Even if you're lying -- keep it going
Keep it going a little bit longer
You know, you know that I'm trying
Trying to be, oh, a little bit strong


That IS "The Chain." That's the Am7 | Em11 | C6 | D9 chord progression of the chorus of "The Chain." That's the music that the band plays to this day when they perform "The Chain."

The music—the chords—in today's "Chain" are from Christine's old song.

I really dig the older "Keep Me There" on the 2005 reissue (the one they call "Butter Cookie"). It's harder to identify the "Chain" music in that one. But it's there. It's an underlying motif that runs all through "Butter Cookie": Em (no 3) | C5 diminished (again no 3).

Sorry for the technical mumbo-jumbo, but this part is used in "The Chain" to bridge the end of the chorus and the start of the bass solo with double electric guitar ringing. And here's a kicker: The same effect is used on the fade-out of "Dreams."
__________________

moviekinks.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-07-2015, 01:21 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 16,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
No, it's actually even before that. The stanza from "Keep Me There" that goes:

Even if you're lying -- keep it going
Keep it going a little bit longer
You know, you know that I'm trying
Trying to be, oh, a little bit strong


That IS "The Chain." That's the Am7 | Em11 | C6 | D9 chord progression of the chorus of "The Chain." That's the music that the band plays to this day when they perform "The Chain."

The music—the chords—in today's "Chain" are from Christine's old song.

I really dig the older "Keep Me There" on the 2005 reissue (the one they call "Butter Cookie"). It's harder to identify the "Chain" music in that one. But it's there. It's an underlying motif that runs all through "Butter Cookie": Em (no 3) | C5 diminished (again no 3).

Sorry for the technical mumbo-jumbo, but this part is used in "The Chain" to bridge the end of the chorus and the start of the bass solo with double electric guitar ringing. And here's a kicker: The same effect is used on the fade-out of "Dreams."
she loves omitting that 3rd tone.
__________________
I would tell Christine Perfect, "You're Christine f***ing McVie, and don't you forget it!"
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-07-2015, 01:26 PM
aleuzzi's Avatar
aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,983
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
No, it's actually even before that. The stanza from "Keep Me There" that goes:

Even if you're lying -- keep it going
Keep it going a little bit longer
You know, you know that I'm trying
Trying to be, oh, a little bit strong


That IS "The Chain." That's the Am7 | Em11 | C6 | D9 chord progression of the chorus of "The Chain." That's the music that the band plays to this day when they perform "The Chain."

The music—the chords—in today's "Chain" are from Christine's old song.

I really dig the older "Keep Me There" on the 2005 reissue (the one they call "Butter Cookie"). It's harder to identify the "Chain" music in that one. But it's there. It's an underlying motif that runs all through "Butter Cookie": Em (no 3) | C5 diminished (again no 3).

Sorry for the technical mumbo-jumbo, but this part is used in "The Chain" to bridge the end of the chorus and the start of the bass solo with double electric guitar ringing. And here's a kicker: The same effect is used on the fade-out of "Dreams."
Again, exactly.

I don't know why people can't hear this. It's obvious. The only difference in those sections of the song you pointed out are the lyrics and vocal melody.

Last edited by aleuzzi; 02-07-2015 at 01:31 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-25-2015, 03:29 AM
Hawkeye Hawkeye is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,322
Default

I love this song. It sounds so much like pre 75 Christine which is probably why I like it so much. I almost wish they wouldve released Keep Me There instead and then Stevie'chain could've been another Storms type song for the band to release. yea yea i know, the chain as we know it today is such an epic and important song to the band but id take 2 great songs ovee the one.
__________________
Never Dance with the Devil

He Will Burn You Down
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-26-2015, 03:01 AM
PenguinHead's Avatar
PenguinHead PenguinHead is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,471
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
I love this song. It sounds so much like pre 75 Christine which is probably why I like it so much. I almost wish they wouldve released Keep Me There instead and then Stevie'chain could've been another Storms type song for the band to release. yea yea i know, the chain as we know it today is such an epic and important song to the band but id take 2 great songs ovee the one.
Yeah, you're right! Keep Me There does have a style that sounds like a late sixties/early seventies outtake. I think in the very early stages in the making of Rumours, they were feeling out different songs, and this one just fell aside ( not surprising, considering the caliber of Christine's other songs more suited to the album).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the band procured instrumental parts from the still-born song, creating new instrumental. Then Stevie wrote lyrics to the new arrangement. That's why it's the only song in their catalog credited to all five of them. It's a band song, not a Stevie song. As Lindsey might say, it was an organic process. Keep You There wasn't replaced by The Chain - it became The Chain.
__________________
Life passes before me like an unknown circumstance

Last edited by PenguinHead; 02-26-2015 at 03:11 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


PETER GREEN - END OF THE GAME: 50TH ANNIVERSARY NEW CD picture

PETER GREEN - END OF THE GAME: 50TH ANNIVERSARY NEW CD

$20.12



CELEBRATE THE MUSIC OF PETER GREEN AND THE EARLY YEARS OF FLEETWOOD MAC [4/30] * picture

CELEBRATE THE MUSIC OF PETER GREEN AND THE EARLY YEARS OF FLEETWOOD MAC [4/30] *

$19.98



Peter Green - Man Of The World NEW 2 x CD Brand New Sealed picture

Peter Green - Man Of The World NEW 2 x CD Brand New Sealed

$10.07



Fleetwood Mac - The Best Of Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac [New Vinyl LP] 140 Gram picture

Fleetwood Mac - The Best Of Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac [New Vinyl LP] 140 Gram

$26.44



Fleetwood Mac S/T LP 2021 Reissue - Peter Greens Fleetwood Mac - NEW SEALED picture

Fleetwood Mac S/T LP 2021 Reissue - Peter Greens Fleetwood Mac - NEW SEALED

$19.00




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved