The Glass Half Full thread

[jeets2000]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Lindsey was what stopped Stevie from recording.

Just so we're all on the same page... (tl;dr version: money, money, money)

Rolling Stone, 3/15/17:

Do you want to make a new record with them?
I don't think we'll do another record. If the music business were different, I might feel different. I don't think there's any reason to spend a year and an amazing amount of money on a record that, even if it has great things, isn't going to sell. What we do is go on the road, do a ton of shows and make lots of money. We have a lot of fun. Making a record isn't all that much fun.

London Evening Standard, 1/17/17

She said: “If the five of us were to get together to make a record it would take a year, which is what it always takes us.

"It would be a whole year of recording, then press, then rehearsal, and by the time we got back onto the road, it would be heading towards the second year, and I don’t know whether at this time it’s better for us just to do a big tour.”

...

Nicks said: “It’s every single penny we make divided by five, so the expense of making a record, which is huge, and then to get back on tour ... we are not 40.

"We have to take that into consideration — how long can we do tours that are three-hour shows? Would you rather spend a year in the studio or get back on the road? I think that the band would choose to tour.”

Nicks, who is focusing on her solo career, is also reluctant to make new music.

She said: “I don’t write as many songs any more because with the internet, the way that kids listen to music, all the streaming, and the fact that if they’re very savvy, if they want to get it and not pay for it, they can.

[bwboy]

jeets2000, I'm just speculating here, but reading between the lines, it seemed like Stevie was unhappy recording Say You Will, specifically with Lindsey, and so she's gone out of her way to not record with him again. However, probably due to wanting to keep some peace so they could continue to tour together, she never says to the press "I don't want to make another album with FM because I hate recording with Lindsey."

Touring with him is one thing; recording new music with him is another matter entirely, apparently. And I'm not saying one person is right here. According to Mick, Lindsey tried very hard to be extra patient when working with Stevie on Tango, and she asked him to work with her on Twisted, her song from Twister, so things had been good between them for a while. But something seems to have changed after Say You Will, and she just doesn't want to record with him anymore. And instead of saying anything negative about recording with Lindsey, she listed other reasons why she didn't record with FM.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by elle

you know me way better than that. i don't troll. i express my opinion. and my opinion right now is that the band betrayed Lindsey, after everything he's done for them over decades, and they should not be rewarded for that.

i like Neil Finn. i would love to see how his collaboration with Lindsey would look like.

but if i see Mick Fleetwood in "FM" concert right now, i would gag.

I understand, and your honesty about how you're feeling is fine and appropriate. I just hope you realize when I or anyone else express enthusiasm or interest in the upcoming FM tour, it's not a dig at Lindsey or his superfans. And by superfans, I mean people who love him but are angry at the other members. I'm a fan of Lindsey, but obviously not to the degree of other people here. I'm not happy he is gone from FM, but I am intrigued by what Mike and Neil might bring to FM.

Anyway, glad to have this dialogue.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bwboy

j
Touring with him is one thing; recording new music with him is another matter entirely, apparently.

except, now it looks like they are the same thing. she first made sure they don't record together, now she made sure they don't tour together either - if "him or me" story is true.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bwboy

I understand, and your honesty about how you're feeling is fine and appropriate. I just hope you realize when I or anyone else express enthusiasm or interest in the upcoming FM tour, it's not a dig at Lindsey or his superfans. And by superfans, I mean people who love him but are angry at the other members. I'm a fan of Lindsey, but obviously not to the degree of other people here. I'm not happy he is gone from FM, but I am intrigued by what Mike and Neil might bring to FM.

Anyway, glad to have this dialogue.

when people express that enthusiasm my initial reactions are grouped as follows:

1. some people don't distinguish wrong from right.
2. fans who are enthusiastic are fans of pre- or post-rumours 5 incarnations of the band primarily, and not just the classic 5 version, so i understand their interest, as long as they acknowledge the betrayal.
3. fans who are enthusiastic are Stevie-first fans and they couldn't care less who else is in the band. some of them might actually be rejoicing since some of them were always griping against Lindsey in the first place, and she finally managed to push him out. they don't care about what's wrong what's right, as long as they don't need to see Lindsey ever again.

[jeets2000]

Originally Posted by bwboy

jeets2000, I'm just speculating here, but reading between the lines, it seemed like Stevie was unhappy recording Say You Will, specifically with Lindsey, and so she's gone out of her way to not record with him again.

I hear what you're saying, but it's a bit of a slippery slope to begin interpreting what she "really" meant versus what she's repeatedly said in the press about albums not selling like they used to, their original fans no longer buying new music, and perhaps most telling of all, her saying to the London Evening Standard that she doesn't write much anymore because "the internet" and music piracy.

Someone earlier in this thread definitively said "Lindsey was what stopped Stevie from recording." All I'm saying is that that is not what she's said when asked recently. Her response has always been about money in some way.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by elle

MODS: this is a thread discussing post-rumours era band advanntages, so should be moved to post-rumours.


otherwise you get people like me and others who have no interest in the Lindsey-less FM coming in these threads and basically sabotaging your nice positive discussions.

a huge sense of betrayal the other 4 inflicted on one of their own is too painful for us to consider anything being positive about this.

Being a huge fan of logic and accuracy I agree. This is a post rumours line up. But then again the technically should’ve been post rumors too.

Also in this transition phase your gonna have the majority of people coming to the rumours forum still, it’s just force of habit.

I understand your pain and I really do feel for you, but I would assume you of all people would be able to see this glass half full. Lindsey is free. Nothing but endless solo albums and initimate tours. Even the “poor Lindsey has been bettayed” angle of this can be a huge positive. He’s gonna have so many betrayal songs. And he’ll be unchained to finally be truly honest about his feelings of this band without the tired old keep your mouth shut to keep the peace.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Being a huge fan of logic and accuracy I agree. This is a post rumours line up. But then again the technically should’ve been post rumors too.

Also in this transition phase your gonna have the majority of people coming to the rumours forum still, it’s just force of habit.

I understand your pain and I really do feel for you, but I would assume you of all people would be able to see this glass half full. Lindsey is free. Nothing but endless solo albums and initimate tours. Even the “poor Lindsey has been bettayed” angle of this can be a huge positive. He’s gonna have so many betrayal songs. And he’ll be unchained to finally be truly honest about his feelings of this band without the tired old keep your mouth shut to keep the peace.

thank you!

if you read my opening post in the Lindsey forum (thoughts about firing) you will see that's exactly what my thoughts are - i can see tons of advantages for both him and his fans and his legacy if he doesn't waste a second of his time on FM anymore.

but i can also feel a huge betrayal he must be experiencing right now, as posts from his family make very clear.

i can also mourn what could have been - for all the fans around the world who will now not get to see LB solo, or BuckVie even, and for musicians in his band who were probably counting on double income in the same amount of time but have now been robbed of it. you know, people who are working musicians and not spoiled millionaires they work for, and who have no health insurance or retirement funds because they live of their touring incomes. and i can judge people for not distinguishing what is wrong and what is right.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by jeets2000

Just so we're all on the same page... (tl;dr version: money, money, money)

Rolling Stone, 3/15/17:

Do you want to make a new record with them?
I don't think we'll do another record. If the music business were different, I might feel different. I don't think there's any reason to spend a year and an amazing amount of money on a record that, even if it has great things, isn't going to sell. What we do is go on the road, do a ton of shows and make lots of money. We have a lot of fun. Making a record isn't all that much fun.

London Evening Standard, 1/17/17

She said: “If the five of us were to get together to make a record it would take a year, which is what it always takes us.

"It would be a whole year of recording, then press, then rehearsal, and by the time we got back onto the road, it would be heading towards the second year, and I don’t know whether at this time it’s better for us just to do a big tour.”

...

Nicks said: “It’s every single penny we make divided by five, so the expense of making a record, which is huge, and then to get back on tour ... we are not 40.

"We have to take that into consideration — how long can we do tours that are three-hour shows? Would you rather spend a year in the studio or get back on the road? I think that the band would choose to tour.”

Nicks, who is focusing on her solo career, is also reluctant to make new music.

She said: “I don’t write as many songs any more because with the internet, the way that kids listen to music, all the streaming, and the fact that if they’re very savvy, if they want to get it and not pay for it, they can.

I’m well aware of her saying all that. And she said the same things in 2009 and ended up making 2 solo albums in the next 5 years.

she’s also talked about recording Joan of Arc during the tango reissue press. I think this goes back to the making of Say You will. Stevie for whatever reason swore off Lindsey forvever after that experience.

Again I’m not saying this is very likely. Just more likely. I think it’s more dependent on how badly everyone else wants to record. If MC wants to make an album with Fleetwood Mac and they all really enjoy working together this tour, I think an album could very well happen.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by elle

[*] fans who are enthusiastic are Stevie-first fans and they couldn't care less who else is in the band. some of them might actually be rejoicing since some of them were always griping against Lindsey in the first place, and she finally managed to push him out. they don't care about what's wrong what's right, as long as they don't need to see Lindsey ever again. [/LIST]

DING, DING, DING, DING, DING!!!!! We have a winner!

I truly believe that ANYONE who is enthusiastic to see this tour - those people are primarily Stevie fans. Actually rejoicing because the old hag is the boss now, and kicked that "mean man" to the curb.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

DING, DING, DING, DING, DING!!!!! We have a winner!

I truly believe that ANYONE who is enthusiastic to see this tour - those people are primarily Stevie fans. Actually rejoicing because the old hag is the boss now, and kicked that "mean man" to the curb.

Wrong. What is with the need to use absolutes and capitalse “anyone”. Your right ,I’m sure maybe half of the people excited are Stevie First Fans. But the other half are just excited for the reasons Elle already mentioned but you failed
To include in The quote .

The more accurate statement would be anyone as upset as you about this situation just has an unreasonable level of unneeded hatred for Stevie Nicks and somehow think her perceived attorcities outdo all the real atrocities going on in the world.

Aren’t you supposed to be a fan of the bob Welch era. If you thought rationally at all and didn’t see the world through firery “must hate the goat” lenses, you might be mildly excited at a Bob welch song popping up in the set. your mind doesn’t go there.


By the way l, just let me clarify I’m directing my comment at being overly hateful towards Stevie Nicks only at Homer. Not accusing anyone else.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by elle

when people express that enthusiasm my initial reactions are grouped as follows:

1. some people don't distinguish wrong from right.
2. fans who are enthusiastic are fans of pre- or post-rumours 5 incarnations of the band primarily, and not just the classic 5 version, so i understand their interest, as long as they acknowledge the betrayal.
3. fans who are enthusiastic are Stevie-first fans and they couldn't care less who else is in the band. some of them might actually be rejoicing since some of them were always griping against Lindsey in the first place, and she finally managed to push him out. they don't care about what's wrong what's right, as long as they don't need to see Lindsey ever again.

I can distinguish right from wrong, and being curious or interested in how FM will sound without Lindsey and with Mike and Neil does not make me a bad person, or mean that I can't distinguish right from wrong.

As long as 2 of the 3 singer/songwriters are in the band, I am interested in the band. Whatever the combination- Stevie and Christine, Lindsey and Christine, or Lindsey and Stevie. I didn't throw a fit when Lindsey left, I didn't throw a fit when Stevie left, I didn't throw a fit when Christine left, and I didn't throw a fit when Christine wanted to continue recording with the band but Lindsey said no, because she wouldn't tour with them. But we don't talk about that, even though possibly some Christine fans felt betrayed by Lindsey for refusing to let her record with them.

I can't find one post where anyone said they're happy Lindsey is out of the band. Please feel free to correct me but I haven't seen any posts where a Stevie fan expressed joy about his absence from the tour.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by bwboy

I can distinguish right from wrong, and being curious or interested in how FM will sound without Lindsey and with Mike and Neil does not make me a bad person, or mean that I can't distinguish right from wrong.

As long as 2 of the 3 singer/songwriters are in the band, I am interested in the band. Whatever the combination- Stevie and Christine, Lindsey and Christine, or Lindsey and Stevie. I didn't throw a fit when Lindsey left, I didn't throw a fit when Stevie left, I didn't throw a fit when Christine left, and I didn't throw a fit when Christine wanted to continue recording with the band but Lindsey said no, because she wouldn't tour with them. But we don't talk about that, even though possibly some Christine fans felt betrayed by Lindsey for refusing to let her record with them.

I can't find one post where anyone said they're happy Lindsey is out of the band. Please feel free to correct me but I haven't seen any posts where a Stevie fan expressed joy about his absence from the tour.

THAT is an excellent point.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Wrong. What is with the need to use absolutes and capitalse “anyone”. Your right ,I’m sure maybe half of the people excited are Stevie First Fans. But the other half are just excited for the reasons Elle already mentioned but you failed
To include in The quote .

The more accurate statement would be anyone as upset as you about this situation just has an unreasonable level of unneeded hatred for Stevie Nicks and somehow think her perceived attorcities outdo all the real atrocities going on in the world.

Aren’t you supposed to be a fan of the bob Welch era. If you thought rationally at all and didn’t see the world through firery “must hate the goat” lenses, you might be mildly excited at a Bob welch song popping up in the set. your mind doesn’t go there.


By the way l, just let me clarify I’m directing my comment at being overly hateful towards Stevie Nicks only at Homer. Not accusing anyone else.

I'm sure you're completely correct.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bwboy

I can distinguish right from wrong, and being curious or interested in how FM will sound without Lindsey and with Mike and Neil does not make me a bad person, or mean that I can't distinguish right from wrong..
............................
As long as 2 of the 3 singer/songwriters are in the band, I am interested in the band. Whatever the combination- Stevie and Christine, Lindsey and Christine,

look, we can all remember how you behaved when you first joined. i'm glad that you are polite and constructive discussant these days, but like people didn't forget BuckVie was supposed to be FM album, some of us still remember that you are Stevie-fan first, no matter how much you scream that you so LOVE THEM ALL!

Lindsey and Chris - you know - 2 out of 3 FM songwriters! - played twice right on your doorstep last year. yet both times you found the reason not to see them.

i think you can distinguish right from wrong, and i'm happy for the world we live in that you can. but you are Stevie-first fan and so in this particular case you don't care about the right or wrong. and that's fine. but i don't understand why the need to hide that, tbh.