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  #61  
Old 01-21-2009, 09:52 AM
dansven dansven is offline
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Originally Posted by snoot View Post
Someday you'll learn the full story. Don't lose sleep over it. Ciao-ski m8.
Hey Snoot!

Here's the latest:
In fact neither Danny nor Peter played on TPO. They hired Rod Stewart to do the guitar solos. Frank Sinatra and Ed Sullivan did the background vocals. John McVie was the only band member to play on the album. He played bass guitar and sang lead vocals, and he also wrote all the songs.


Drums? See, there aren't any on the album. What you hear is just some studio magic thing.



By the way, it's a well known fact that Danny teamed up with John Mayall, and the couple were busy writing and recording Beatles' "Abbey Road" album in 1969, while the Fab Four were in jail.


That same year Danny wrote the soundtrack to "The Bridges of Madison County", 'cause he had the ability of time travels.




Last edited by dansven; 01-21-2009 at 10:46 AM..
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  #62  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:34 AM
JonsonP JonsonP is offline
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Wow, Danny was some seriously talented guy, no way PG could compete with that...
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  #63  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:41 AM
dino dino is offline
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Wow, Danny was some seriously talented guy, no way PG could compete with that...
Whoa, I must check out the soundtrack to the cheesy Clint Eastwood movie.
I take your word for it, Daniel.
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  #64  
Old 01-21-2009, 04:38 PM
Evan Morris Evan Morris is offline
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Default Green's mental decline

There are several reasons for Peter's decision to leave the band and his subsequent mental decline. Based on what I have been told by a couple of people who knew him back in the day, Peter was and is of a very sensitive, humble, and artistic tempermant. LSD and other drugs were often used as a conduit to artistic expression. This was not neccessary with Peter. As Jenny Boyd once put it: Peter was already there, he was already connected to his own soul artistically. Such people don't need drugs to achieve artistic enlightenment, in fact such drugs seem to cause mush greater destruction with people of an artistic bend. The other issue that I have never heard metioned is that Peter and the whole band for that matter were in a state of total exhaustion after three years of constant touring, recording, rehearsing etc. Mick Fleetwood once stated that there was never a time when the band was not working. An important point that is always missed when Peter's illness is discussed.
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  #65  
Old 01-21-2009, 04:43 PM
snoot snoot is offline
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Never said he couldn't play. He was jamming like a firebrand right thru End Of The Game. But sorry to bust precious bubbles, his mind had already taken a hit into '69. What do you think most of his TPO songs were cast from? The beginning of the unraveling - and Peter was aware of it, at least partially, you can hear the anguish and frustration clearly setting in. It makes for much of the dark and even intriguing pastel that TPO is. It only got worse into 1970 and beyond, but the heavy drug indulgence went back earlier, with LSD entering the picture with the band's introduction to the Dead and Bear while on tour stateside. [There is even a connection to the Mac riding shotgun in their signature anthem Truckin']. He wasn't the pillar he once was in the studio by TPO either. Thought you boys knew more about the Green God than you're letting onto.

PS. Be careful in taking Mick's word or recollections on all things Mac as gospel truth. At times it's a convenient menagerie of how he chooses to paint or revisit the past, subject to the tricks of time and space. Fleetwood has always been selective (look no further than who he deems selectively "worthy" of HOF consideration), and there are clearly some faulty memory spikes in the works. We all have 'em to some extent, so I don't fault him completely as he is often put under the spotlight in that regard, and what he shoots from the hip a lot of times ends up in print - without the ability to edit thereafter. Green was kind to turn the amount of weight he did to Kirwan for the TPO project as Mick suggests, but he also had little choice by then, not if he wanted to complete that project with any realistic hopes of meeting the production budgets and certain contractual deadlines. Peter also didn't go south at Munich "just like that" [with the snap of his fingers] as Mick conveniently contends, that affair was a long time in the making. If you don't know that by now, you need to start digging for better answers.

I'd suggest being cognizant about pointing fingers on "obsessing" here too. I see lots of shades of green in this forum in that regard. A good percentage of its borders on blind faith, from folks who don't even trail back to those turbulent days, and now hope to glimpse that haze and whirlwind with the clarity of psychics.

EDIT: Good points made by Evan, but sadly Peter had overplayed his hand on the substance end of things while fronting the Mac, and there's no way to turn back the clock once your cup fill'eth and overflows in that regard.

Last edited by snoot; 01-21-2009 at 05:13 PM..
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  #66  
Old 01-21-2009, 05:31 PM
dansven dansven is offline
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Originally Posted by snoot View Post
If you don't know that by now, you need start digging for better answers.
But where should we start digging, folks? ...other than listening to Snoot's intelligent lectures. Where can we read more about this?

I've asked Snoot himself this question a number of times, but it has only been answered by his own assuring words. Perhaps he has a nice little hole where we can all dig together?




Here's a new theory: Someone ....s-o-m-e-o-n-e ..... here.... longtime Mac fan .. heard that Peter Green was forming a new band again..... someone... made a call ... and showed up................................
but didn't pass the audition!
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  #67  
Old 01-21-2009, 05:51 PM
snoot snoot is offline
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Originally Posted by dansven View Post
But where should we start digging, folks? ...other than listening to Snoot's intelligent lectures. Where can we read more about this?
I've given you a lot to chew I admit (maybe too much to digest?), but if the chicks don't want to listen to the hen...

If you'd stop acting like a kid and get off yer whimsical butt, you'd no doubt figure it out. Consider yourself lucky yours truly showed up with more than just obsessive praise and lickspittle panting for master Greenie. You're only the wiser for it, or are you? Hmmm ... nah. There's this thing about leading horses to water. ..

No more with you on this Daniel, I've said enough. "Evil" one OUT.
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  #68  
Old 01-21-2009, 06:12 PM
dansven dansven is offline
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Originally Posted by snoot View Post
I've given you a lot to chew I admit (maybe too much to digest?), but if the chicks don't want to listen to the hen...

If you'd stop acting like a kid and get off yer whimsical butt, you'd no doubt figure it out. Consider yourself lucky yours truly showed up with more than just obsessive praise and lickspittle panting for master Greenie. You're only the wiser for it, or are you? Hmmm ... nah. There's this thing about leading horses to water. ..

No more with you on this Daniel, I've said enough. "Evil" one OUT.
Yeah, I guess it's the end.. because you never got off YOUR whimsical butt and gave us other references to this. That's the only thing I've asked for all the way!


Last edited by dansven; 01-22-2009 at 08:55 PM..
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  #69  
Old 01-21-2009, 06:14 PM
dansven dansven is offline
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Originally Posted by slipkid View Post
Damn straight, 'dansven' had the ammo that a kid that was born just under one year after PG left FM didn't!! Thank you 'dansven'!
(...)
For dansven, is the Toe Fat material still available? I know the Memphis Slim album is.
Haha, thanks again slipkid!

The album is called Toe Fat Two and is still available at Amazon. It was reissued in 2001 by the mighty Repertiore label. I have a twofer from 1996 with Toe Fat "One" and "Two". Peter plays great guitar on 2 tracks on "Two".

The Memphis Slim album is available on CD from two different labels: One from Wounded Bird Records (the original album), and one from Universal Music France/Sunnyside Communication (the original album + 2 bonus studio outtakes feat. Green).

Hope you get hold of those albums!


Quote:
Originally Posted by dino View Post
Yep, that Kirwan obsession is annoying. He was great, but why to try pit him against Greeny? He was a pupil, a kid, in awe of Peter.
I'll say: Just from listening evidence (oh, maybe CIA doctored the live tapes :), Greeny was on fire to the end of his tenure with Mac. Listen to the Boston Tea tapes, listen to the London gig from April 1970 (AFTER Munich, remember).
It's frighteningly imaginative playing. The fact that Danny has lots of space on Then Play On was more a case of generosity on somone's part than burn-out. How many guitar heroes give over half their new album to a protegée? Danny's songs are fine, but immature. He wrote far better material for Kiln House, Future Games and Bare Trees. His disctinctive vibrato can be heard on his own songs, Oh Well and the Madge jams. The Madge jams are a good example for those who have trouble telling the styles apart. Not pointing any fingers, of course
Thanks for the support, Dino!
We could make jokes about this topic. But you are indeed saying wise words here! The Boston recordings are proof.. marvellous playing from Peter!!!
"He was great, but why to try pit him against Greeny? He was a pupil, a kid, in awe of Peter." -- Totally agree!! It's just a stupid and pointless discussion really, that I don't think belongs on any Peter Green/Fleetwood Mac forum.
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  #70  
Old 01-21-2009, 06:33 PM
dansven dansven is offline
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Originally Posted by Ms Moose View Post
So many elaborate, knowledgeable comments and great thoughts! Threads within the thread. If these threads get much longer and more intense I will have to give up work!

Unfortunately I just can't work out how to multi-quote , so just to hang on to ONE of the many great themes here, I will comment on:



Peter Green used to be a butchers apprentice - remember???

This "quality-thing" is very difficult and usually we use words like: "tone" or "feel"....But what the hell is it???? Some of it might be:

1) dansven:"Their guitar styles are as different as their voices": I think PG once said that he considers the guitar the instrument that takes over where the voice "have to give up" (some great singers sees it the other way around, but have the same unique "talent"/gift: Frank Sinatra said that he (Sinatra) was inspired by the trombone in his phrasing, Billie Holliday wanted to be able to sing like Satchmo played his trumpet).
This is [I]one aspect[I]that - to me - distinguish PG's playing from other players: his playing - like the voice - seems to be part of his being (warts and all) and this human quality ressonates instantly with other human beings in a way that is very unique: he is able to communicate feeling directly(One or two of the great classical violinists are blessed with this abillity too). Mick Fleetwood had a comment in the same line as this about PG's singing voice in the MOTW DVD.

2) Contained intensity (as opposed to blasts of energy) and unerring sense of rhytm/timing/pace.

3) He seems to be able to "stay or be with" each note, which makes him very "present" in his playing in a way that is rather unmatched. It's "a hesitation before taking the leap". It is like he starts all over again every time he plays (this sounds crazy I know). A lot of players are way ahead of themselves - they are "dab" or clever, but they are not "present" in the music.
This aspect is could maybe help distinguish him from others/imitators. They can (to a limited extent) imitate the "tone" or "feel" - but not the timing/pace. Maybe this is why some of us don't care too much whether he is "playing lead" or doodling - whatever he does he is "present".

Trying to balance in life, blessed or cursed (whichever way you look at it) with these "gifts" - no wonder this human being needs a long break in between the battles. PG himself commented once that "playing guitar - (or did he say "bending strings"?) - broke his heart, and he wouldn't let it happen to him again". Tapping in to the principal for years carves the way to burn-out.

This (1-3) is why I agree with JonsonP's 80% on Seven Stars, even though the cover on my CD copy has it otherwise. Snowy is not even mentioned on that particular number. I might be wrong too of course.

Hope this wasn't too "long-haired" (danish slang for space-cadet ramblings) and sorry about the broken english.

Ms Moose
Hi MsMoose!
Your post is something that's been ignored, and it is far more interesting that this "Green vs. Kirwan" discussion!
I am amazed by what you're writing, it really makes sense.
Especially point 2 and 3 are what I find in Peter's playing. Not many players have the qualities you're listing. Miles Davies certainly did!!!! Others??
There are not many of them....

I would like to add another number:
4) Taste!
Few guitar players can come up with such sweet licks and melodies within one song, as Peter. I don't know if that made any sense.. perhaps too "long-haired!"

(Hilsen fra Norge )
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Old 01-22-2009, 01:25 AM
slipkid
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  #71  
Old 01-22-2009, 11:50 AM
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slipkid slipkid is offline
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Originally Posted by dansven View Post
Haha, thanks again slipkid!

The album is called Toe Fat Two and is still available at Amazon. It was reissued in 2001 by the mighty Repertiore label. I have a twofer from 1996 with Toe Fat "One" and "Two". Peter plays great guitar on 2 tracks on "Two".

The Memphis Slim album is available on CD from two different labels: One from Wounded Bird Records (the original album), and one from Universal Music France/Sunnyside Communication (the original album + 2 bonus studio outtakes feat. Green).

Hope you get hold of those albums!
Well thanks to the wonders of Youtube I tracked this down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Io5wMSA20


I'm ordering this baby right away! Thanks again dansven.
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  #72  
Old 01-22-2009, 12:12 PM
dansven dansven is offline
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I'm ordering this baby right away! Thanks again dansven.
Yeah! More of that on the album!
It quite experimentally for a blues album...
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  #73  
Old 01-22-2009, 01:35 PM
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slipkid slipkid is offline
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Yeah! More of that on the album!
It quite experimentally for a blues album...

From that one track "Chicago Seven" I can see what Peter Green's future could've been after FM. Without the LSD Green probably would've been a session guitarist for his favorite blues-men until he decided on something else. He would've fulfilled Clapton's vision circa 1965 before Eric decided that money and fame were more important. That's a lot of lost opportunities for fans like us.
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  #74  
Old 01-22-2009, 01:46 PM
dansven dansven is offline
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Indeed!
Peter is really on fire on the Memphis Slim album. There are lots of session musicians there, but Peter plays lead on 70 percent... (my estimate from memory).
If you like 12 bar wahwah lead guitar, you'd better check out the song "There'll Be Changes" from the Toe Fat album.
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  #75  
Old 01-24-2009, 02:33 PM
Ms Moose Ms Moose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansven View Post
Hi MsMoose!
Your post is something that's been ignored, and it is far more interesting that this "Green vs. Kirwan" discussion!
I am amazed by what you're writing, it really makes sense.
Especially point 2 and 3 are what I find in Peter's playing. Not many players have the qualities you're listing. Miles Davies certainly did!!!! Others??
There are not many of them....

I would like to add another number:
4) Taste!
Few guitar players can come up with such sweet licks and melodies within one song, as Peter. I don't know if that made any sense.. perhaps too "long-haired!"

(Hilsen fra Norge )
Thank You for noticing my post dansven. I had been thinking about what makes PG's playing special for some time after you popped the question in one of your previous posts. And it took some time to put it into words.

These discussions about "Who Is The Best" seems futile because we like different things in music. And if we don't know exactly what we are comparing, it becomes a "god-dag mand -økseskaft" discussion (hope you have this expression in norwegian as well), I don't know how to translate it into english.
Great guitar playing is not about "chops" to me, but it might be to someone else. What exactly is "chops"?

I agree with you on 4) taste! It is not longhaired at all. Maybe there is more....

Hilsen fra Danmark

Ms Moose
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