World tour 2009?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Yes he's saying the whole time that he doesn't care if the album only sells a certain amount of copies, but at the same time Mick and Ray point out that recognition comes in the form of sales to Lindsey too, that he'd be "crushed" if Say You Will only sold only 800,000 copies (which is exactly what it ended up selling). We've gotta keep in mind, Mick has know lindsey for almost 34 years now, and Ray for well over 20... they know him better than we do!

Whatever his inner devastation may have been, Lindsey didn't seem outwardly crushed at all. He didn't publicly cry and complain about what SYW did (or didn't do) in sales. He didn't give up on the music business and decide there was no use releasing new material at all. Instead, he was the one pushing for more new stuff by FM and, when that didn't work, he released a solo album, which was destined not to sale. Whether he was secretly hoping for some surprise success like Santana (and I would have no problem with Lindsey collaborating with Rob Thomas) and Cher have enjoyed in their latter years, he couldn't have thought it was all that likely.

Obviously the guy cares about being popular -- otherwise I wouldn't still be listening to his Rumours songs at all live performances -- but I think more than anything he just wants to get his weird music out there. And it's not true that no one has heard the stuff. The critics listened to Under the Skin long enough to write a review and the overwhelming majority of those reviews were positive. That stroked his ego.

I'm sure he'd like to have record sales and good reviews, but I think the good reviews are fulfilling in their own right. He certainly considers Tusk a masterpiece and hasn't shut up about it almost 30 years later. That's not because Tusk sold mega millions. It sold a lot by today's standards, but -- considering FM's popularity and the record industry in the seventies -- was a disappointment then. That didn't quell his enthusiasm for and pride in the project.

He wants money, which is why I guess he'll do anything to get back with FM, but he couldn't have thought UTS was about money, not even in his dreams. Michele

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Hmm I politely disagree . Lindsey is hugely about recognition, has been since 1979. You also have to remember, recognition also comes through sales. In that measure, Lindey's solo career has been a massive disappointment. Have you even listened to the song "Not Too Late?" I don't think it's just about critical recognition, I think it's about him fantasizing about changing the music industry by having a hit and being critically acclaimed. He obviously accomplished the latter part, but missed the first by lightyears. For what it's work, I think HejiraNYC hit the nail on the head yet again. If y'all don't believe me, look back to the Destiny Rules doc. Yes he's saying the whole time that he doesn't care if the album only sells a certain amount of copies, but at the same time Mick and Ray point out that recognition comes in the form of sales to Lindsey too, that he'd be "crushed" if Say You Will only sold only 800,000 copies (which is exactly what it ended up selling). We've gotta keep in mind, Mick has know lindsey for almost 34 years now, and Ray for well over 20... they know him better than we do!

Come on people, I was referring to lindsey's solorecords from 2006 and the upcoming one. Stop looking at today though the eyes of 25 years ago, stop putting up arguments from the FM-setting (a whole different game) and stop critisizing the man about his urge to put out art for the "right ears". You are definately not among them, btw. He is doing that now, and he shows what he wants to show.

HE DOESN'T BRING THE RECORDS OUT EXPECTING SALES & HE'S NOT TOURING SMALL CLUBS BECAUSE HE'S EXPECTING 8000 PEOPLE.

Are you all nuts deaf and dumb?

[trackaghost]

What Gerald says is true: why did Lindsey bring out an almost lo-fi, uncommerical, low-key record if he wanted big sales? Surely he would have gone with the big rock album. Lindsey may well have wanted a big solo career in the past (although his choice to release weird albums like Law & Order and Go Insane certainly doesn't support that) but it seems to me he wasn't expecting anything big this time round.
And recognition doesn't just come through sales, ask the Velvet Underground and The Stooges.

[MacMan]

I tend to agree with Gerald on this... At this point in the game, I think Lindsey knows what he can accomplish sales wise from what he puts out. He knows he has a certain core that he appeals to - and I'm sure the critical recognition it received went along way with him, even though the sales weren't there in huge commercial numbers. In his mind, and many others, it was a success. It all depends on what he wanted out of it, and in the case of UTS, I think it was just to be able to stay true to himself, not be swayed by what the suits have to say, and to do what he wanted on the record and get it out there!

[shackin'up]

Aaahhh, good grief, I thought that it would never end.

I hope he's going to put out flop on flop on flop, just because he wants to.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by MacMan

It all depends on what he wanted out of it, and in the case of UTS, I think it was just to be able to stay true to himself, not be swayed by what the suits have to say, and to do what he wanted on the record and get it out there!

Perhaps it is this attitude that helps to explain why he now finds himself without a solo record deal.

I'm not hating on Lindsey at all, and I do wish him all the best in his career. And if selling his CDs out of the back of his 1982 Subaru station wagon gives him satisfaction, then bless his dear heart. I just don't believe for a second that he is indifferent about the fact that his solo albums haven't sold, and it must frustrate him at some (probably profound) level. And all this talk about St. Lindsey doing it for the sake of art, blah, blah, blah seems to paint him out as some kind of martyr. Puhlease . If he really didn't care about sales or money, he would have posted the tracks on his website as free downloads! This would have exposed him to a much wider audience and possibly created new interest over his body of work. And, according to Stevie's account of FM's reaction to her solo success, the band was supposedly quite jealous, especially Lindsey, who reportedly refused to even acknowledge the copy of Bella Donna that Stevie had given to him. It is human nature to want to feel appreciated and wanted, and in the music biz, appreciation=$$. The fact that he loses money every time he does a solo project must not do very much for his ego. And the fact that he has gone on record in the past as stating that he has to do FM albums in order to foster his solo work is also quite telling about his desire to reach a larger audience as a solo artist. I don't blame him one bit!

[David]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I'm not hating on Lindsey at all, and I do wish him all the best in his career. And if selling his CDs out of the back of his 1982 Subaru station wagon gives him satisfaction, then bless his dear heart. I just don't believe for a second that he is indifferent about the fact that his solo albums haven't sold

I don't think he's indifferent to his piddling sales.

and it must frustrate him at some (probably profound) level.

What does that mean? It frustrates him profoundly?

And all this talk about St. Lindsey doing it for the sake of art, blah, blah, blah seems to paint him out as some kind of martyr.

Non sequitur. Why does it follow that you're a martyr (?) if you're making the music you want to make rather than the music the execs would prefer (only because they can sell it)? A lot of people make the music they want to make, & a lot of people don't. I think Lindsey generally does what he wants, what he thinks is good. On rare occasions, he's admitted that he went bland or trite for some specifically commercial or political reason (for example, "Mirage" or even "Trouble"). He's no martyr. I'm not even sure how that metaphor is supposed to work: You mean he's sacrificing commercial success for his personal vision? I don't see Lindsey in quite such elevated terms. I think he's just an intelligent guy with talent & a personal voice.

If he really didn't care about sales or money, he would have posted the tracks on his website as free downloads!

You may be creating a straw man. I'd have to read through this entire thread to know. He cares about sales & money. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that & there's nothing specifically inimical to artistic achievement in that, either -- consider the god of all gods, Beethoven, who connived to sell his great D major Mass to five or more publishers simultaneously. On the other hand, sales & money aren't the sole driving factors in Lindsey's music or career decisions.

It is human nature to want to feel appreciated and wanted, and in the music biz, appreciation=$$.

Reductive. The music biz isn't the sole hinge here (& money is the appreciation factor in any biz). Lindsey gets appreciation from the ledgies, for example.

The fact that he loses money every time he does a solo project must not do very much for his ego.

On the other hand, as others have noted, being a critics' pet for thirty years can do wonders for the ego. At this point, he's probably used to the schizoid sensation his career gives him -- or if he isn't, he should be.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

And the fact that he has gone on record in the past as stating that he has to do FM albums in order to foster his solo work is also quite telling about his desire to reach a larger audience as a solo artist. I don't blame him one bit!

I don't know when Lindsey has gone on record as saying that. Of course, I've said it. I've compared him to George Clooney and speculated that as doing Oceans 11 gives Clooney financial comfort so that he can go out and do smaller films like Goodnight and Good Luck, FM has given Lindsey certain freedom, freedom to create non-commercial music without worrying that he will miss a mortgage payment. I don't think he is dying to work with FM so that he can stop making flop records. I think he wants to use FM profits to keep making those flop records!

I don't think Lindsey is a martyr, I'm sure that he wants success and acknowledgement like everyone else, but the point is, he has gotten it. So, there's no desperation there. The idea that he has been miserable these last 25 years because he never sold millions as a solo artist really doesn't jive with the facts.

Stevie said Lindsey was jealous of her solo success, but she said he was jealous of her in Fritz. She hasn't said it, but I strongly suspect she thinks he was jealous of her when they sang California Dreaming together that first time too. Once Fritz formed, she said everyone asked for the band with the brown-haired girl in it, although she also said that (like FM) the Polydor wanted to sign Lindsey, not her, they just realized that they couldn't get her without him. So, he was jealous of her, even though it was his skills that got them a recording contract that first time around.

I don't think Lindsey's violent, persistent and unrelenting jealousy of Stevie --or the perception of same -- has that much to do with Bella Donna.

The fact that he has achieved success with FM must soften any blow that not achieving solo fame landed. He can have both worlds, that of poor, struggling creativity and that of platinum, commercial superstardom. The guy didn't even tour on his first albums, even though Trouble did chart. OOTC was his first time out on the road. In the eighties he was young, part of a hot band and would surely have gotten promoters to back him. He didn't do it. He just didn't act like the kind of person that eager for the world to please, please love him.

Saying he has conducted his career in a manner that doesn't prize record sales above all else is not saying he's a martyr. I don't think many martyrs live or spend like he does. But he doesn't live or create like many fame hungry rock stars do either.

Michele

[Sarah]

good points, michele.

i'm just amused that so many threads in this forum turn into "**** on lindsey's solo career" threads. for some of us.. probably most of us.. it doesn't matter how many copies of whatever albums sell. all that matters to me is that one copy sells. to me.

quite frankly, the lindsey concert experience was so much more than what fleetwood mac has to offer. huge arenas, long lines, crazy expensive tickets and merch, and several thousand numbnuts who just wanna hear the radio tunes... not cuttin' it.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Sarah

i'm just amused that so many threads in this forum turn into "**** on lindsey's solo career" threads. for some of us.. probably most of us.. it doesn't matter how many copies of whatever albums sell. all that matters to me is that one copy sells. to me.

That's the thing. What is this, "It's not going to sell anyway. Why bother?" mentality? I could understand it more in the eighties than I can now, when no one is selling music anyway. If you stopped creating just because people aren't buying, we'd have nothing to listen to anymore.

Aren't we telling Stevie just to release something, anything new and don't worry about if it sells or not? Put it on your website. Don't worry about Warner Bros. Don't worry about Billboard. Just do it for your fans. If it's not something new, then just give us The Dealer. Do anything. We want something to buy! It could be the greatest thing in the world. If they don't get Justin Timberlake to sing it, it's not going to sale. So, why would we even concern ourselves with that?

Obviously, Lindsey wouldn't be insulted if the music was a surprise hit (for instance, he'd have been pleased in the Elizabethtown soundtrack exploded), but realistically he's got more chance of Lee Lee growing up and letting him produce Bubbly II for her than he does of having a hit himself. Surely he knows that and is not crying in the night over his failures.

Michele

[Peestie]

Totally agree, Michele.

FM seems to be a way that makes his solo albums viable. I think these days he does also want to do work with FM, with or without the sales. I think that as long as they don't say to him "Only write hits - none of that "artsy" crap" that he could work with them just fine and be happy. I get the impression that he's willing to do stuff to make FM work (such as giving Stevie a foil) and just wants them to continue as a band.

I hope we get a new FM album if he's going to tour with them otherwise all those times he slagged The Eagles for being a nostalgia band will come back and bite him in the ass. The Eagles even got to release the double album that he wanted

[michelej1]

You know, this makes me think of that great interview the 4 guys did (Christine being a "guy" as well) in, I'm guessing, 1982.

As always, Lindsey was complaining about being blamed for Tusk and Mick diplomatically said that he admired Tusk but thought that Lindsey needed to think of commercial things, because none of his songs from Tusk were being played on the radio. Lindsey shot back that none of his songs from this album were being played on the radio either, so what's the difference, which comment caused John and Christine to burst out into gales of laughter.

That little byplay was just a snapshot that told you everything about what the band is -- or was, anyway.

Michele

[shackin'up]

Do you still think Lindsey is jealous about Stevie's success with Bella Donna 27years ago?

It's 2008 people.

Get Real. If I turn on the radio today, I hear a boom boom deep dishwash electronic version of a mindblowing beautiful song called Dreams. After shooting a bullet through the speakers I turn on the computer, look on youtube and see a man sitting on the floor of his hotelroom with a guitar, playing To Try For The Sun in a devastatingly vulnerable way. He just recorded it with his own camcorder.

THATs the difference. Look at it and we can stop discussing. It's just looking at the facts and understand.

[Johnny Stew]

Album sales don't matter to me either -- I just want the music. Unfortunately, however, they do matter to the record companies. Even small indie labels have to make money somehow. So the fear is always that if an artist doesn't sell a "respectable" amount of albums, it's going to get harder and harder for them to get new music out there and still be able to make any money (which, let's face it, even the most respectable of artists needs to make money somehow).

Stevie gets ragged on endlessly for her comments about radio not wanting to play her newer songs and therefore she's wondered "why bother" when it comes to making new music -- but I understand where she's coming from.

When you're someone like Stevie, who's never been a critical darling but has always had a sizeable audience for her albums, declining radio-play and sales could very well make you start to wonder if people even want to hear new music from you. Granted she shouldn't feel that way -- but I think it's understandable if she does.

Plus, she's certainly not the first once-hugely popular artist to voice concerns and fears about the state of the music industry and how difficult it is to get your music heard. And, yes, of course there are other ways of getting the songs out there without having to deal with the major labels, but those all carry a considerable amount of risk too -- Cyndi Lauper, for example, had an album ('Shine') stuck in limbo for years because the indie label that was supposed to release it, folded.

I do want to point out, however, that she did state in a couple of interviews that she's considering alternative routes (I believe she mentioned iTunes specifically) for getting a few new songs out, here and there. So that very well may still happen.

Given the 130-some songs she's released over the years, and the decades of touring, I would have thought she'd earned at least a little understanding from us while she's trying to figure out her place in music right now.

[David]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Stevie gets ragged on endlessly for her comments about radio not wanting to play her newer songs and therefore she's wondered "why bother" when it comes to making new music -- but I understand where she's coming from.

People shouldn't rag on her for that. Where is the problem? Stevie is being totally realistic.

When you're someone like Stevie, who's never been a critical darling but has always had a sizeable audience for her albums, declining radio-play and sales could very well make you start to wonder if people even want to hear new music from you. Granted she shouldn't feel that way -- but I think it's understandable if she does.

Pop music is a little bit like the male lion, except that instead of eating its young, it eats its old. The other commerce-heavy arts, like movies & Disney Resort parades, don't chew up & spit out their longtermers quite so violently.

I do want to point out, however, that she did state in a couple of interviews that she's considering alternative routes (I believe she mentioned iTunes specifically) for getting a few new songs out, here and there. So that very well may still happen.

It already has started happening -- Stevie's video commentaries are seminal, are they not, in an artist of her historic significance & age? In other words, isn't she the first of her generation to release her concept videos with voice-overs? I thought that, regardless of the final execution & quality, the conception was exceptionally wickedly attractive & interesting, & I applauded Stevie (literally -- I stood up & gave her the good clap).

Given the 130-some songs she's released over the years, and the decades of touring, I would have thought she'd earned at least a little understanding from us while she's trying to figure out her place in music right now.

I criticize Stevie only because it's expected of me. It's kind of the same reason Stevie sings Dreams every night on the stage.

But the real point here is that I don't understand why she picks at the band members in interviews every year. Does she want to remain in the group or does she want to split? She says that she might record with the group again if this member or that member does this or that -- always some sort of requirement for Stevie to participate. I bet the others get really tired of it. And what do her most recent comments in Q mean anyway? Is she going to do something else with Fleetwood or not? If she isn't, isn't that a sensible enough reason to consider her an ex-member? I mean, what else is she getting at? It's sort of a philosophical question, Stew: If you're not going to do any more albums or tours with a group, why stay with the group? Just to pose for publicity shots?