Ralph jumps in

CarneVaca · #1 02-22-2004, 10:51 PM

John Kerry may yet regret all his waffling now that Nader is in.

At least the problem of who I should vote for in the general election is solved.

DrummerDeanna · #2 02-23-2004, 08:47 AM

I don't know how I feel about this....I really see the appeal of independent...I'm not a fan of either the democratic or republican parties at this point BUT I'm in the "get Bush out of office" boat and I just don't think Nader has the backing to do that...so it comes down to the main worry of many demos/ex-Nader supporters....will his running take votes aways from the dems making it less likely to un-seat Bush?

I'm not saying my views are set in stone by any means...I'm still mulling everything over in my head....just thought I'd throw in my little thought

CarneVaca · #3 02-23-2004, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrummerDeanna
I don't know how I feel about this....I really see the appeal of independent...I'm not a fan of either the democratic or republican parties at this point BUT I'm in the "get Bush out of office" boat and I just don't think Nader has the backing to do that...so it comes down to the main worry of many demos/ex-Nader supporters....will his running take votes aways from the dems making it less likely to un-seat Bush?

I understand the soul searching. It is something I had to do when the rumblings that he might run again started. After seeing him on Meet the Press, I was reminded why I voted for him last time. And why I should vote for him again.

When you decide to vote for Nader, it isn't because you think he's going to win. It's because he represents what you believe in. So if the Democratic Party is going to continue ignoring those issues you believe in, why should you give them your vote? By doing that you're contributing to the perpetuation of the corruption of Washington. Ralph is right when he says that Washington is corporate-occupied territory. Ultimately voting for Bush or Kerry (if he gets the nomination) doesn't make a huge difference. Yes, the democrats are going to say of course there's a difference. Look what happened last time. Keep in mind these are the same democrats who voted for everything Bush wanted. Kerry never saw a Bush bill that he didn't like, as evidenced by his voting record.

The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is who gives away the most the fastest. This is clear from the Clinton administration's record. The Clintonites pushed Nafta, welfare reform and their FCC gave away the farm. Megamergers got way out of control during the Clinton years. If we're being honest, we have to recognize that despite the oral-sex sideshow of the Clinton years, the country was already veering dangerously to the right. The groundwork was laid for Bush, whose administration by the way likes to point out that regime change in Iraq was a policy hatched up by the Clintonites.

Do I want to see Bush get reelected? No. Do I want Kerry? Not really, though I can see he's better. Yet, putting a Democrat in the White House in 2004 is only going to prolong the huge need we have in this country for real change. Because all we'll ever get from the corporate-bought Democrats is mediocre centrism, which is really right-wing policies desguised as Democratic programs. No thanks. I'll take the four more years of pain that might just be the thing that finally wakes people up in this country.

strandinthewind · #4 02-23-2004, 12:17 PM

Carne - I agree with most of what you say.

But, my problem with Nader is while I think he is saying the rights things about corp. fraud etc. I am unsure if an immediate end to that would be good for us. I mean let's say he won and the first day in office he puts in 25 bills which the effective end of which is that all corps. no longer have tax shelters effective immediately. Corps. must make up that money somehow and I think that somehow will be in the reduction of workforce. Morevoer, Nader would be looked on as a joke because there is no way the R and D controlled Congress would agree to his stuff. So, I cannot vote for him even though I believe in what he is saying. I guess I look at it from a practicle point of view and Nader's stuff is just not immediately practicle, although I think it could be done over say a five to ten year period with gradual reductions, etc.

My $0.02

estranged4life · #5 02-23-2004, 12:35 PM

guess I will be voting for no-one this coming November because I do not believe any of the believed candidates (I somewhat like Sen.Edwards, but he isnt going to win the Democratic nomination) for the parties stand for what I believe in...

Brian "The more things change the more they stay the same...Especially in the corrupt world of politics" j.

DrummerDeanna · #6 02-23-2004, 01:37 PM

LOL..this thread is going to mess with my head even more!! hahaha...no but seriously....you made some really good points Strand...I think that is generally the boat I am in...I like what the man has to say, I'm just not sure how effective a president he would be...esp. with Congress to consider...lol...I work in news..but as you can see politics is NOt my forte

dissention · #7 02-23-2004, 02:00 PM

I love Nader and I voted for him in the last election, but I just have to be practical this year. Our country cannot survive another four years of ChimpCo and it's as simple as that. We can't do it. At this point, I have to vote for the candidate who has the best shot at beating Bush. Voting for Nader would be a waste. I despise Bush and his administration and need to show support with the Democrats to get him OUT. Regardless of whether or not I like Nader better than Edwards or Kerry, it would be a waste to support him; he'll be lucky if he gets 1% this time around. My goal is to oust Bush and that is my only goal. Yes, Kerry f*cked up too many times to count (and I disagree with him on many, many things), but stack him up next to Bush and he's the lesser of the two evils. The fact is that it's either Bush or Kerry who is going to be president and the question that needs to be asked is who do you prefer and consider the lesser of the two evils? My vote goes to Kerry; it will go to him on Super Tuesday and it will go to him in November. He's our last salvation to getting ChimpCo out.

Anyone But Bush

gldstwmn · #8 02-24-2004, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
John Kerry may yet regret all his waffling now that Nader is in.

At least the problem of who I should vote for in the general election is solved.

A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush.

gldstwmn · #9 02-24-2004, 11:45 AM

P.S. Why won't Nader release his tax returns?

dissention · #10 02-24-2004, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gldstwmn
P.S. Why won't Nader release his tax returns?

He probably hasn't paid taxes in years.

estranged4life · #11 02-24-2004, 11:55 AM

is a basket-case IMHO...And I agree, He will take votes away from the Democratic candidate moreso than he believes.

Brian "I.Been Had for Prez in 2004" j.

gldstwmn · #12 02-24-2004, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dissention
I love Nader and I voted for him in the last election, but I just have to be practical this year. Our country cannot survive another four years of ChimpCo and it's as simple as that. We can't do it. At this point, I have to vote for the candidate who has the best shot at beating Bush. Voting for Nader would be a waste. I despise Bush and his administration and need to show support with the Democrats to get him OUT. Regardless of whether or not I like Nader better than Edwards or Kerry, it would be a waste to support him; he'll be lucky if he gets 1% this time around. My goal is to oust Bush and that is my only goal. Yes, Kerry f*cked up too many times to count (and I disagree with him on many, many things), but stack him up next to Bush and he's the lesser of the two evils. The fact is that it's either Bush or Kerry who is going to be president and the question that needs to be asked is who do you prefer and consider the lesser of the two evils? My vote goes to Kerry; it will go to him on Super Tuesday and it will go to him in November. He's our last salvation to getting ChimpCo out.
Anyone But Bush

It's hard to be perfect. Don't become a Kerry apologist. Kerry will make a damn fine president. I will support him proudly and you should too.

gldstwmn · #13 02-24-2004, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by estranged4life
is a basket-case IMHO...And I agree, He will take votes away from the Democratic candidate moreso than he believes.

Brian "I.Been Had for Prez in 2004" j.

How about if Clark is VP?

estranged4life · #14 02-24-2004, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gldstwmn
How about if Clark is VP?

Ya mean the same Clark who ONLY won the state of Oklahoma because Kerry offended the liberal left with his "I'm a conservative...More conservative than the conservative candidate." remark??? Uh, No thanks...I'll pass!!!

Brian "I.Been Had & I.P.Freely in 2004" j.

strandinthewind · #15 02-24-2004, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gldstwmn
It's hard to be perfect. Don't become a Kerry apologist. Kerry will make a damn fine president. I will support him proudly and you should too.

ANYONE, even John "I can't make up my mind what I want to be"

Kerry would be better than this tripe we have now. The only thing he did well enough IMO was the tax cuts and he even screwed those up with his outrageous spending.

To paraphrase an old Southern Expression, "I'd piss on a sparkplug" if I thought it would help not reelect that idiot.