This absolutely disgusts me.

[sparky]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Were you in SFCA last weekend

LOL. I should have been. But I think my mere existence is plenty !
Seriously, it holds scant interest in my own life. But is is fun to watch. Inevitable and dramatic, without a doubt.

[strandinthewind]

Here is an interesting site containing a timeline of the development of the Roman Catholic Church. The site is very pro-RC, which is a little alarming at times, but the timeline is interesting at least to me.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/6461/

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by sparky
At a certain point in any discussion of religion though, logic flies out the window, and there is no convincing anyone of anything.
You have faith in it, you buy it. You don't have faith, you can't. End of discussion.
That being said, there is a lot of good in those stories. Sad that it can't be divided from the destructive, historically specific nonsense that people use to hurt each other.

Well said, though I do believe the good in those stories can be separated from the hurtful misuses. I have to hope.

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Was your argument earlier about the timing being all wrong for the Jews to have participated in the crucifixion based on the current Easter dates.

No I'm referring to the Gospel account that Jesus was tried by the Sanhedrin during Passover (and that the Last Supper took place during Passover, though, contrary to popular belief, it was not a seder), which as I wrote, would have been pretty unthinkable. (Did I understand your question?)

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Why thank you sir!!!! I kind of thought that was what you were talking about at least in general when you posted earlier. The Curch went through alot to become the Roman Catholic Church didn't it

I love Church history. Houston PBS has been rerunning the series on the Medici, including the Medici popes. Have you seen it? It's been great (though I have missed parts.)

- Jake

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
No I'm referring to the Gospel account that Jesus was tried by the Sanhedrin during Passover (and that the Last Supper took place during Passover, though, contrary to popular belief, it was not a seder), which as I wrote, would have been pretty unthinkable. (Did I understand your question?)

- Jake

Yes you did. I misunderstoof your earlier post. Thanks for clarifying as I know little enough Jewish ceremonial stuff to be dangerous!!! OY!

I have missed the Medici thing. But, talk about your religious rulers!!!!! Actually, most of the world's most beautiful art came from the people they hired - so, I guess they are forgiven

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Actually, most of the world's most beautiful art came from the people they hired - so, I guess they are forgiven

That's what the series focuses on, mainly. That and the mafia-style operations. Catch it!

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Also, other people (alot of them actually) suddenly appeared once Adam and Eve were thrown out of Eden. For example, in Genesis we have Adam and Eve who bore Cain and Able. Cain kills Able, leaving three people in the world. Yet, we then have

Genesis 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Genesis 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Where did Cain's wife come from? Moreover, Genesis indicates most of these people lived well over 100 years, which seems next to impossible.

So, I just take all of that as like in all religions, there is some creation story, etc., that is symbolic and very powerful like the story of Adam and Eve's fall from grace, etc.

You must read The Book Of J (a bestseller). I don't agree with it, but it will fascinate you. And maybe piss you off a little.

- Jake

[CarneVaca]

Though I've participated a bit in this thread, I still find it hard to comment on The Passion of the Christ. I'll wait till I see the film. That's going to be a few months because I won't go to the theater for it. I reserve the theater-going experience to my neighborhood independent theater, which brings in foreign and independent films. No Hollywood bombast for me.

Be that as it may, Mel's motives are at the very least suspicious partly because of the pre-Vatican II adherence, especially considering the historical attitude of the Vatican toward Jews. But I shall reserve jugment in the meantime.

As for the Bible, one thought often strikes me. Aside from well-meaning folks like our friend Chrissy, isn't it sad that a lot of the people who are the most vocal about living by the Bible tend to be the least godly in their actions and their judgments?

I am not quite an atheist yet, but I am fast going in there. I find it hard to believe there is a god, and believe it or not, I am actually happier by concluding that there is no god. It's hard for me to reconcile so many of "god's children" living in horrible circumstances in so many places. Hey, look, Dubya's Pentagon now says we could see the start of a new ice age within a decade or two. You know what that means. Most of us are f***ed anyway.

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Nor the immaculate conception.

You know, when I was in grade school (about 11), my grandmother told me that story and I actually asked my teacher about it. She said she didn't know anything about it and I asked if a straw was used. I got detention.

Now, the thing that always fascinated me about that story is the idea that a woman could get pregnant without being penetrated. It just doesn't make sense to me. Yet, the same people who believe in it do not believe in ghosts or the like.

[dissention]

My word. I feel like Madeline Murry O'Hare at Sunday Mass.

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by dissention
Now, the thing that always fascinated me about that story is the idea that a woman could get pregnant without being penetrated. It just doesn't make sense to me. Yet, the same people who believe in it do not believe in ghosts or the like.

If you believe that God made the earth and everything in it and around it, etc...you can believe that Mary was blessed with Jesus in her tummy. Miracles happen everyday.

I just don't see how a person can look around at the world/space and NOT believe in God, but that's just me.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
You know, when I was in grade school (about 11), my grandmother told me that story and I actually asked my teacher about it. She said she didn't know anything about it and I asked if a straw was used. I got detention.

Now, the thing that always fascinated me about that story is the idea that a woman could get pregnant without being penetrated. It just doesn't make sense to me. Yet, the same people who believe in it do not believe in ghosts or the like.

I, too, had a rather practicle thought about it. I thiugh, well what if Mary just "got in trouble" and made up this big lie and fortunately her Son was a great man. But, then I thought even is Mary was born without the symbolic original sin, it could have happened. But, I chose to focus on the goodness of the story and not the actual event etc. becuase for me it is not all that relevant that it actually occurred. But, that is just me.

[dissention]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I just don't see how a person can look around at the world/space and NOT believe in God, but that's just me.

Disclaimer ( ) : These are my personal beliefs and I mean no offesne or insult to anyone who practices an organized religion or believes in God.

I don't believe in God at all. I think that the Bible is the stuff of tall tales and is no more believable than the Grimm Fairy Tales are. I was raised as a person who could choose to subscribe to a religion or not, it was never dictated that I had to be this or that. I attended church a few times and just decided that it wasn't for me. My grandmother and my mom used to tell me stories from the Bible and I even attended a Catholic school for two years. I found the beliefs to be absolutely ridiculous and the people who practiced it to be highly hypocritical and judgemental. I never bought into the claim that this person from above created us all; it's too wild a tale to believe. I don't believe that God created man and woman, I believe in evolution (don't shoot me!). I'm skeptical of whether or not Jesus even existed, too. I do not believe in praying and think that it is a waste of time; life will do what it wants to do and no one from above has any hand in it. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, I think they are things that were made up to give people hope of life beyond life on this planet. I think that God was created to give people the answers they want about life and to give them a sense of understanding about the life they lead and they planet the live on.

Having said all of that, I believe that there is a life beyond the ones we lead now and that our spirits go somewhere when we die. I believe in a higher power, but I do not believe that it has any part in what happens in our lives while we live on earth. I believe that our lives are in our hands and we are here to make something of it.

Just my thoughts, though.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind


I, too, had a rather practicle thought about it. I thiugh, well what if Mary just "got in trouble" and made up this big lie and fortunately her Son was a great man.

Yeah, "Mary and the Stable Boy: The Untold Story". j/k