Warner/Reprise, Lindsey's big mistake.

[iamnotafraid]

Anyone else on the board familiar with record companies promotional departments I'd like your input on this statement.

I believe Warner/Reprise Record Company is one of the reasons the Lindsey will recieve none or at best little publicity for his upcoming album "Gift Of Screws". And I base that on many points, some are as follows:

1. The lack of promotion of Lindsey's SoundStage.
2. The lack of promotion of Lindsey's Under The Skin.
3. The lack of promotion of Lindsey's Live At The Bass Performance Hall.

I could probably include Fleetwood Mac's Say You Will. I know someone who is in the music business and we talk from time to time about new releases. And I inquired about Lindsey's new Gift Of Screws release. He told me that getting promotional disc or materials from Warner/Reprise is like pulling teeth. Of all the record companies he's dealt with, he said they're one of the worst. This person deals with many companies, and said that if Lindsey could have signed with a label like Lost Highway or Big Machine records or any of another various labels, that the record would have a chance.

This person also mentions that how much promotion a record (CD) recieves is based on what the record label assumes it will sale. But he added compaired to what Warner sends out in general, pales in comparison to what many other labels send out for new and established artist.

I personally think that Lindsey signed with Warner because of the upcoming (hopefully) Fleetwood Mac release. I imagine they did this to keep Lindsey happy. But I wish Lindsey had shopped it around a little more. I think with time Lindsey could have found a label that really belived in him.

I hope Lindsey will have some TV appearances scheduled close to the time of the GOS release, otherwise the general public won't even know that there is a new album out from one of rocks greatest artist.

[LukeA]

Its *very* important to Lindsey that he's on a major label. He's used his leverage as a member of Fleetwood Mac to get WBR to put out his albums, even though he knows they're just going to throw them out there without much support.

Let's not forget the last time WBR put a ton of money/planning in the promotion of a Lindsey Buckingham solo album, it tanked miserably. They promoted the HELL out of OOTC- no one seems to remember or admit that. But, they did.

There's no shortage of indie/boutique labels that would have loved to sign Lindsey over the past 10 years or so, but his attitude has always been "what's the point?" He's all about prestige. This is why he, now more than ever, writes/records whiny, self-important songs about his music & talent being unappreciated by the suits, yet ultimately seems quite content with the arrangement.

All of that aside, if you were WBR, how would you have marketed Lindsey's recent releases differently? And do keep in mind that no matter how promo CD's of "Did You Miss Me" you'd manufacture and send to Top 40 / A/C stations, few, if any, would even give it a listen. They're solidly marketing to his base (AAA stations), and that's all you can really want at this point.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by LukeA

All of that aside, if you were WBR, how would you have marketed Lindsey's recent releases differently? They're solidly marketing to his base (AAA stations), and that's all you can really want at this point.

If I were WBR I would do the following.

1. Make sure every radio station in his genre of music had a decent publicity kit and disc. (WBR doesn't do this).

2. WBR should use their muscle to get Lindsey on shows like Leno and Letterman, even O'Brian. Not just Kimmel and Ferguson (these are second tier shows at best.)

3. Shop his songs to movie or TV executives. A well placed song can do wonders for sales. This should have already been in place to coincide close to the release date.

As I mentioned before, what Warner sends out pales in comparison to other labels. Most artist send out Press Kits that are full of information and picture(s) of the artist. Warner's promotional department needs to be cleaned out top to bottom. Look up Big Machine records, the guy that runs this label knows all about promotion. You can check the Billboard charts to see his results.

[louielouie2000]

The thing is, I think labels like Warner/Reprise are just doing veteran acts like Lindsey and the Mac lip service. They have never forgotten how much money Fleetwood Mac brought them at one point, so they feel they're simply doing Lindsey a favor by keeping him onboard, and letting him put out his little boutique albums every 10 years. They know he's past the 'prime age' for making hit records, so they just don't even bother promoting him. They did the same thing with Stevie for Trouble In Shangri-La (which if they only did a video and pushed Planets Of The Universe hard, could have been a big hit), and were even worse with Fleetwood Mac's Say You Will. Let's not even go there regarding Under The Skin. In retrospect, I can't blame them for Say You Will... it just wasn't a great album, though it had some great tracks. Not to mention the entire band wasn't in tact for the album, most notably the solid hitmaker of FM was the one who retired. Under The Skin just had a truly limited audience too because of it's style and content, and Warner realized that.

The thing is, Warner is going to base all these past dwindling sales of Macsters, then downgrade their forecasts for the sales of Gift Of Screws accordingly because Lindsey is getting even older, and the public is forgetting more about him and the Mac by the year. I find this unfortunate, because listening to the snippets off Gift Of Screws recently, Lindsey is putting out his strongest, most approachable, radio friendly album to date. In the end, Warner/Reprise probably say 'what do we have to gain from dropping big bucks to support this album?' when in reality, they should be looking at what they might be losing out on.

Further, I think a lot of blame lies with the members of Fleetwood Mac too. They could have possibly been in an entirely different boat had they only signed with Interscope for Say You Will. I think they feel an obligation to Warner/Reprise, since it was that label who stuck with the band for many years before they produced a hit album. Let's not forget it was Warner who brought Fleetwood Mac all the fame and riches they've become accustomed to these past 30 odd years, and it's Warner who has put out every one of their projects since, which probably all COMBINED haven't made as much money as Rumours.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

If I were WBR I would do the following.

1. Make sure every radio station in his genre of music had a decent publicity kit and disc. (WBR doesn't do this).

They've already been doing this- as I said, AAA stations are his audience, and they're doing as good a job marketing to them as anyone can do.

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

2. WBR should use their muscle to get Lindsey on shows like Leno and Letterman, even O'Brian. Not just Kimmel and Ferguson (these are second tier shows at best.)

Lindsey went on a couple of these shows to promote UTS- Conan definitely, and I think one other, too. By the way, news flash- O'Brien and Ferguson are tied in the ratings, and Ferguson's demo is aligned much more closely with Lindsey's than O'Brien's.

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

3. Shop his songs to movie or TV executives. A well placed song can do wonders for sales. This should have already been in place to coincide close to the release date.

Yeah, because getting "Peacekeeper" placed on NBC's "Third Watch" (which cost money- as do all song placements) singlehandedly rocketed it up the charts.

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

As I mentioned before, what Warner sends out pales in comparison to other labels. Most artist send out Press Kits that are full of information and picture(s) of the artist.

These are far more helpful for new, developing, or otherwise unknown artists than established ones. You don't promote a Taylor Swift/Jack Ingram album (to reference your belabored Big Machine comparison) the same way you do a Lindsey Buckingham album. WBR has a fine marketing/promotional department.

[Madness Fades]

All very good points raised.
Everyone is putting up good cases for and aginst.
I would love if Lindsey awnsered something like this in a Q&A for the Ledge fans.

[jbrownsjr]

I look forward to the new album, but based on UTS and SYW i just don't think he puts out a very good product.

[Lori40]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Its *very* important to Lindsey that he's on a major label. He's used his leverage as a member of Fleetwood Mac to get WBR to put out his albums, even though he knows they're just going to throw them out there without much support.

Let's not forget the last time WBR put a ton of money/planning in the promotion of a Lindsey Buckingham solo album, it tanked miserably. They promoted the HELL out of OOTC- no one seems to remember or admit that. But, they did.

There's no shortage of indie/boutique labels that would have loved to sign Lindsey over the past 10 years or so, but his attitude has always been "what's the point?" He's all about prestige. This is why he, now more than ever, writes/records whiny, self-important songs about his music & talent being unappreciated by the suits, yet ultimately seems quite content with the arrangement.

All of that aside, if you were WBR, how would you have marketed Lindsey's recent releases differently? And do keep in mind that no matter how promo CD's of "Did You Miss Me" you'd manufacture and send to Top 40 / A/C stations, few, if any, would even give it a listen. They're solidly marketing to his base (AAA stations), and that's all you can really want at this point.

As much as I love Lindsey, I have to agree with you, Luke. His "unappreciated musical genius" label is one he wears with pride. I think it is how he wants to be defined. Just in case we didn't pick up on it ourselves, he wrote Not Too Late to hammer the point home.

[BTFLCHLD]

Talk Show Appearances for UTS

Ellen: The Ellen DeGeneres Show"
- Episode dated 25 April 2007
"Late Night with Conan O'Brien"
- Episode dated 22 March 2007
"Jimmy Kimmel Live!"
- Episode dated 10 January 2007
- Episode dated 4 January 2007
"Tavis Smiley"
- Episode dated 29 November 2006
"The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson"
- Episode #3.43 (2006)

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Lori40

As much as I love Lindsey, I have to agree with you, Luke. His "unappreciated musical genius" label is one he wears with pride. I think it is how he wants to be defined. Just in case we didn't pick up on it ourselves, he wrote Not Too Late to hammer the point home.

It's been the same story with him since 1979. He's basically had a career of complaining about being underappreciated for 30 years. What used to get me laughing is that LB would complain about John's bass or Mick's drumming, and then I would listen to his solo albums and the bass and drums were not even close to the caliber of John or Mick.

[JamieSPC]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Its *very* important to Lindsey that he's on a major label.

He's all about prestige.

I don't hang around here enough to know if this is inside info from someone in the know, or just conjecture. But every single frame and every single word out of LB's mouth on the Destiny Rules doc regarding SYW is a direct contradiction to what you're saying here.

I would have LOVED to see what Interscope would have done with SYW, UTS and now GOS. My bet is that LB would have, too. And on the UTS doc he wasn't too proud to shop THAT record around, either. I think the other three were more worried about the prestige of a major label. (see the conversation between Mick and Lindsey about filmmaker Todd Solondz)

There are still a lot of levels of Warner Music Group that resemble the company it used to be a part of (Time Warner)... marred in the past and seemingly ignoring the digital future. The traditional record companies just don't have the power they once did, and yet many who work for them think they do.

If FM is going to do another studio record, they should do it outside the current system altogether. How about Live Nation?

Good thread, good discussion.

~Jamie

[GoS]

I am torn! I agree with every word here.

And, for the record, I knew the name "Lindsey Buckingham" from listening to FM growing up, but I had no idea he had a solo career for most of my life. Then a DJ, only once and only in passing, said that Lindsey was dong a concert. I got tickets, went, fell in love with the music and bought UTS. And now look where I am, I read this message board daily and have every album and the GoS Demos.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

I don't hang around here enough to know if this is inside info from someone in the know, or just conjecture. But every single frame and every single word out of LB's mouth on the Destiny Rules doc regarding SYW is a direct contradiction to what you're saying here.

I would have LOVED to see what Interscope would have done with SYW, UTS and now GOS. My bet is that LB would have, too.

In early 2002, after they just got dropped from WBR, Fleetwood Mac had a verbal agreement to join Dreamworks Records. At the time, Dreamworks was led by Mo Ostin & Lenny Waronker, former WBR executives who were big fans of Lindsey & the rest of the band. This was glossed over in Destiny Rules, if I recall (I haven't seen it in 4 years).

Despite that connection (and despite the fact that Dreamworks had a solid stable of artists at that point), they got the willies and were lured away by the much more comfortable choices of Interscope/Jimmy Iovine and WBR/Tom Whalley (and the huge advance).

As for what Interscope/Iovine could have done with SYW, I dunno. It ended up selling 200-250K more than I thought it would, and WBR did a pretty good job promoting it (IMO).

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

And on the UTS doc he wasn't too proud to shop THAT record around, either.

Lindsey shopped UTS (and GOS) around because, like most of us, he wants to be wanted. In the end, he was always going to go back to Warners.

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

There are still a lot of levels of Warner Music Group that resemble the company it used to be a part of (Time Warner)... marred in the past and seemingly ignoring the digital future. The traditional record companies just don't have the power they once did, and yet many who work for them think they do.

I completely agree. Lyor Cohen is a dunderheaded stooge. Then again, if you're Lindsey, at least he's not David ("What's The World Coming To") Kahne.

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

If FM is going to do another studio record, they should do it outside the current system altogether. How about Live Nation?

Considering the album/Farewell Tour rumors that have been out there for a while- recently corroborated by Lindsey- AND the fact that Live Nation sent out those surveys to a handful of Fleetwood Mac/Stevie Nicks concert ticket purchasers (LN sent out similar surveys to people re: Madonna and U2, shortly before they announced touring and/or 360 deals with them), I'd say that an all-encompassing Live Nation agreement is in the future.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

They know he's past the 'prime age' for making hit records, so they just don't even bother promoting him. They did the same thing with Stevie for Trouble In Shangri-La (which if they only did a video and pushed Planets Of The Universe hard, could have been a big hit)

I COMPLETELY agree. I mean, Sheryl Crow alone was not enough of a reason to push "Sorcerer" the way they did. "Planets" made much more sense- and was later proved out when they released the very successful single w/ the dance mixes.

I also felt at the time (and still feel) that they should have sent "Too Far From Texas" to country, it could have been a moderate crossover hit.

All of that said, TISL did better than I thought it would, as did SYW.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

Talk Show Appearances for UTS

Thanks for this list. I missed Tavis Smiley.

Michele