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  #46  
Old 10-29-2020, 07:33 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Me too. Amazing! Saw it in Atlanta.
I saw it in Cleveland in a small bar/club. I was in heaven. Just say we'll meet again.
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  #47  
Old 10-29-2020, 09:16 PM
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When I met Mick backstage in 2009 he claimed Lindsey said for the tour he wanted extra musicians on stage like back up singers, percussion, extra guitar players etc all so that the songs would sound as close to the records as possible. Who knows if he was telling the truth.
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  #48  
Old 10-29-2020, 09:58 PM
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When I met Mick backstage in 2009 he claimed Lindsey said for the tour he wanted extra musicians on stage like back up singers, percussion, extra guitar players etc all so that the songs would sound as close to the records as possible. Who knows if he was telling the truth.
I believe that Mick was conveying what Lindsey felt. In interviews stretching back to his first solo album in 1981 — even to the Fleetwood Mac tour preceding that — you can hear Lindsey vent a certain frustration with what he used to call paraphrasing: transforming the character of a studio track into something that would work onstage, with messy live sound, fewer people than ideal, or even the need to program a set for momentum and vulgar energy rather than nuance or subtlety. (That’s why I spend so much time repeating myself that Lindsey’s particular character as a musician really doesn’t lend itself to arena rock — the concert history of Fleetwood Mac from 1975 to now is the history of taking the subdued, alluring stuff OUT, not putting more of it in. I even think Stevie would do better in small venues, where she could work with a broader emotional palette and not have to placate the beer-guzzling, stoned party-heads.)

You have a painstakingly crafted arrangement from a studio recording and if that song is a hit or it has some value that can be exploited in a live set (like, say, “Eyes of the World” or “World Turning”), it has to be paraphrased. The more complex its construction in the studio, the more paraphrasing it needs. Based on what Lindsey has always said, that necessity to rephrase songs differently for the live set seems to have been more confining than liberating. I’m sure he has always loved opening up and letting loose with searing solos and “yelling and screaming” (as he called it in his 1981 Innerview with Jim Ladd). But he’s also been bummed out with the live situation in Fleetwood Mac: four people, give or take an extra part here or there, to paraphrase all the voicings — and having to eliminate many of them because you’ve run out of hands or singers and nobody in the band knows how to use the prerecorded stuff so that it sounds real and not artificial. That frustration is what drove him to do what he did in 1993 for his tour. The Cradle set was intricately rehearsed and mapped out like a blueprint — they probably used guitar and vocal charts like horn charts for a jazz band (or like the charts Rickie Lee Jones and Tom Scott crafted for her amazing Pirates album).

Lindsey toured with Fleetwood for many years without getting the opportunity or the approval to do what he wanted with ambitious arrangements. Not that the others were to blame for blocking him. But imagine trying to get the 1982 band together for two or three months of serious rehearsal to plan something so sophisticated. It was probably all Mick could do to get his band into rehearsal for three weeks of facking around.
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Last edited by David; 10-29-2020 at 10:01 PM..
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  #49  
Old 10-29-2020, 11:15 PM
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David point is exactly the opposite, though..
It was actually a red herring. Nothing in what he said disputes the assertion that if Lindsey had stayed, they would have still used auxiliary players, that it wasn’t something that was dictated by Stevie, which was the only point I was making. In both cases, there was a degree of recreating sonic layers from the albums. Based on the rather extreme lengths Lindsey went through to do that in 1993, it completely stands to reason that he would have gone along with, if not altogether insisted, on augmenting the band, especially for the TITN material. I don’t think any of them were interested in “paraphrasing” too much with that album.

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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
IMHO people make way too much fuss about possible Lindsey statements about touring with a bigger band in 1987. For the love of God, I would not take any statements of Lindsey at the time as serious. I know its in Mick's book but there were never any rehearsals and it also could have been a ploy to stall talking about the tour. Lindsey never wanted to tour in 1987. He may have given it a second thought but people act like they were rehearsing with extra guitar players, etc. I was glued to my radio in May 1987 with a big radio promotion of TITN. Every band member was interviewed. Lindsey was directly asked about touring. He said it was not discussed and the silence on the issue could lead it to go either way. I was like WTF. I heard it with my own ears months before the blowout at Christine's house. So its really not worth taking serious because he may have casually mentioned it would be nice to add a few other musicians.
Billy and Rick were announced six weeks before the tour started. Tours of that magnitude take longer than six weeks to put together. Obviously there had been some measure of tour planning while Lindsey was still in the band.

Lindsey was always vague about the band’s future in the TITN interviews. The more they were interviewed, the more obvious it was he didn’t want to be there anymore.

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LOL Having said that, I doubt he meant taking on 3 Stevie Nicks back up singers and Asante
He absolutely would have wanted a percussionist. Remember, it was his idea to have Steve augment the band on the 09 and 13 tours. Listen to all of the percussion on TITN, especially his songs.

And, if they were already augmenting the band, why wouldn’t she bring her backing singers?
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  #50  
Old 10-30-2020, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
It was actually a red herring. Nothing in what he said disputes the assertion that if Lindsey had stayed, they would have still used auxiliary players, that it wasn’t something that was dictated by Stevie, which was the only point I was making. In both cases, there was a degree of recreating sonic layers from the albums. Based on the rather extreme lengths Lindsey went through to do that in 1993, it completely stands to reason that he would have gone along with, if not altogether insisted, on augmenting the band, especially for the TITN material. I don’t think any of them were interested in “paraphrasing” too much with that album.


Billy and Rick were announced six weeks before the tour started. Tours of that magnitude take longer than six weeks to put together. Obviously there had been some measure of tour planning while Lindsey was still in the band.

Lindsey was always vague about the band’s future in the TITN interviews. The more they were interviewed, the more obvious it was he didn’t want to be there anymore.


He absolutely would have wanted a percussionist. Remember, it was his idea to have Steve augment the band on the 09 and 13 tours. Listen to all of the percussion on TITN, especially his songs.

And, if they were already augmenting the band, why wouldn’t she bring her backing singers?
Yes of course tours take a long time to put together. The last Fleetwood Mac tour was planned and contracts signed almost 2 years before Lindsey was fired.

1. Lindsey never signed any contract to tour in 1987 because he would have been in breach of contract for leaving before rehearsals

2. The entire reason for the meeting at Christine's house was because Lindsey was non-committal about touring and it was a last ditch effort to convince him.

3. Yes the promoters start moving the parts of such a tour. The album was successful and it was going to be a big deal i.e. the first Mac tour in half a decade.

4. Lindsey gave his final NO right before rehearsals would have started so that is why Rick and Billy just fell into place 6 weeks before the tour

5. Christine stated in 1987 she knew Lindsey was leaving after the album. She also stated he was part inspiration of the song Little Lies. He was not open about leaving but always dropped hints which were the "little lies."

People talk in general terms all the time. In 1985 Don Henley did an interview with Musician magazine stating that some members of the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac may join a new band together. That was an off the cuff pipe dream comment. When Lindsey did talk about touring, he gave his thoughts about adding musicians. Same sort of thing. That statement was never put into any reality since he really was not on board. I was being funny when I said he did not mean Stevie's solo back up singers.
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Last edited by Macfan4life; 10-30-2020 at 05:51 AM..
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  #51  
Old 10-30-2020, 11:36 AM
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Not really. According to Mick in 1987, Lindsey wanted to add a second full-time guitarist for the tour, and said that it would have been Billy Burnette. I asked Billy about this in a Q&A and he verified it.
Lindsey may have wanted to add a second guitarist and other musicians, but there was never any plan in place for that person to be Billy.
Billy got a call from Mick the day after the fight asking him to join. That was the first time Billy had any involvement in being in the band or on the tour. In fact, his solo career was taking off at that time and he had a new record deal. He had to fight to get out of that deal to join the band and tour. Rick then joined after Billy was already on board.
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  #52  
Old 10-30-2020, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum View Post
Lindsey may have wanted to add a second guitarist and other musicians, but there was never any plan in place for that person to be Billy.
Just going by what Mick and Billy have said.

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Billy got a call from Mick the day after the fight asking him to join. That was the first time Billy had any involvement in being in the band or on the tour.
Yes. I never said that Billy had signed on for the tour when Lindsey was still in the band. He was the first guy they were going to ask, their first choice.

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Rick then joined after Billy was already on board.
The way I heard it is that Billy got the call that Mick wanted him and Rick to join Fleetwood Mac while the two were in the studio with Roy Orbison, and Billy told Rick that night.
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  #53  
Old 10-30-2020, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Just going by what Mick and Billy have said.


Yes. I never said that Billy had signed on for the tour when Lindsey was still in the band. He was the first guy they were going to ask, their first choice.


The way I heard it is that Billy got the call that Mick wanted him and Rick to join Fleetwood Mac while the two were in the studio with Roy Orbison, and Billy told Rick that night.

Just going on what Billy wrote in his autobiography.
You are right though- I read it again. Mick called Billy and asked him to join. While on the phone he asked Billy to get in touch with Rick and offer a place to him as well. Rick happened to be in a studio with Billy and Roy Orbison at that exact time.
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  #54  
Old 10-30-2020, 06:14 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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I do like when they stripped it down to the girls. Or, Go Insane solo. SYLM up front was great. Landslide made me barf. I did like the Mirage Tour version where Christine plays the keys on it.

I never liked Stand Back as a FM piece. I wished she had chosen something else. I'd love to see How Still My Love done by FM. Her solo band was a bit wonky for me. I never cared for it. I think as time went on, they wanted to cover more sound.

They all need coverage in present time. All 3 voices have aged. But, kudos to them for working with worn out tools.
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  #55  
Old 10-30-2020, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
I do like when they stripped it down to the girls. Or, Go Insane solo. SYLM up front was great. Landslide made me barf. I did like the Mirage Tour version where Christine plays the keys on it.

I never liked Stand Back as a FM piece. I wished she had chosen something else. I'd love to see How Still My Love done by FM. Her solo band was a bit wonky for me. I never cared for it. I think as time went on, they wanted to cover more sound.

They all need coverage in present time. All 3 voices have aged. But, kudos to them for working with worn out tools.
The 1975-76 tour was my favorite. I loved the paraphrasing. “Over My Head,” “World Turning,” and “Rhiannon” were masterpieces in their live form.

I understand why Lindsey didn’t like the paraphrasing. He had worked so hard on creating studio gems only to pare them down for a live show. He doesn’t strike me as the type who can divorce himself from the finished product. The thing is, there’s also an art to stripping down a song to its essentials and taking it to a different place. A concert is a completely different way to experience the music. It SHOULD be different. Very different.
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  #56  
Old 10-30-2020, 06:51 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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The 1975-76 tour was my favorite. I loved the paraphrasing. “Over My Head,” “World Turning,” and “Rhiannon” were masterpieces in their live form.

I understand why Lindsey didn’t like the paraphrasing. He had worked so hard on creating studio gems only to pare them down for a live show. He doesn’t strike me as the type who can divorce himself from the finished product. The thing is, there’s also an art to stripping down a song to its essentials and taking it to a different place. A concert is a completely different way to experience the music. It SHOULD be different. Very different.
1975-1976 concerts are so wonderful. Even Get Like You Used to Be is pure performance.

I think those shows made Lindsey a better musician. I watched him over the years trying to cover so many parts and fills.

Now, his solo shows have a ton of backing tracks. I understand why he does that. He wants Don't Look Down to have those great effects. And as they all age, it's just a necessary evil. Here's to missing the old days.

I think Stevie gets blamed a lot because she broke up the 3 part harmonies by adding her posse.
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  #57  
Old 10-30-2020, 08:22 PM
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1975-1976 concerts are so wonderful. Even Get Like You Used to Be is pure performance.

I think those shows made Lindsey a better musician. I watched him over the years trying to cover so many parts and fills.
Lindsey has been for years now saying how surprised people were when they would hear FM live, since live the sound is so different and so much more rock. that FM albums are more pop while FM live band was rock'n'roll. he was always proud of the heavier concert sound.
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  #58  
Old 10-30-2020, 08:28 PM
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Lindsey has been for years now saying how surprised people were when they would hear FM live, since live the sound is so different and so much more rock. that FM albums are more pop while FM live band was rock'n'roll. he was always proud of the heavier concert sound.
If you look at the Mirage Album compared to the tour; you'll see it's completely different from the album.

By the time the Dance came around, I was a bit underwhelmed. I was ecstatic they were back. But, it was light.
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  #59  
Old 10-30-2020, 09:56 PM
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I believe that Mick was conveying what Lindsey felt. In interviews stretching back to his first solo album in 1981 — even to the Fleetwood Mac tour preceding that — you can hear Lindsey vent a certain frustration with what he used to call paraphrasing: transforming the character of a studio track into something that would work onstage, with messy live sound, fewer people than ideal, or even the need to program a set for momentum and vulgar energy rather than nuance or subtlety. (That’s why I spend so much time repeating myself that Lindsey’s particular character as a musician really doesn’t lend itself to arena rock — the concert history of Fleetwood Mac from 1975 to now is the history of taking the subdued, alluring stuff OUT, not putting more of it in. I even think Stevie would do better in small venues, where she could work with a broader emotional palette and not have to placate the beer-guzzling, stoned party-heads.)

You have a painstakingly crafted arrangement from a studio recording and if that song is a hit or it has some value that can be exploited in a live set (like, say, “Eyes of the World” or “World Turning”), it has to be paraphrased. The more complex its construction in the studio, the more paraphrasing it needs. Based on what Lindsey has always said, that necessity to rephrase songs differently for the live set seems to have been more confining than liberating. I’m sure he has always loved opening up and letting loose with searing solos and “yelling and screaming” (as he called it in his 1981 Innerview with Jim Ladd). But he’s also been bummed out with the live situation in Fleetwood Mac: four people, give or take an extra part here or there, to paraphrase all the voicings — and having to eliminate many of them because you’ve run out of hands or singers and nobody in the band knows how to use the prerecorded stuff so that it sounds real and not artificial. That frustration is what drove him to do what he did in 1993 for his tour. The Cradle set was intricately rehearsed and mapped out like a blueprint — they probably used guitar and vocal charts like horn charts for a jazz band (or like the charts Rickie Lee Jones and Tom Scott crafted for her amazing Pirates album).

Lindsey toured with Fleetwood for many years without getting the opportunity or the approval to do what he wanted with ambitious arrangements. Not that the others were to blame for blocking him. But imagine trying to get the 1982 band together for two or three months of serious rehearsal to plan something so sophisticated. It was probably all Mick could do to get his band into rehearsal for three weeks of facking around.
You’re right, of course, that Lindsey would prefer the songs live to sound as close to the studio originals as possible. This ambition has been a weakness, I think. What distinguished FM’s live shows from 75-82 was both raw energy and a decidedly looser, harder attack to the music, which transformed delicate, well-crafted pop tunes into high-energy rock-n-roll. The band’s rhythm section (including Christine) had been doing this very well since the early 70s. There are some terrific concerts from the Danny and Bob years that demonstrate the dichotomy and the purpose it served. The practice continued well into the early 80s. Consider John’s incredible bass work on the live version of “Sisters” from the studio Tour documentary. He wasn’t playing those bubbling lines on the studio recording, where LB’s arrangement called for minimalism and restraint. Stevie’s strong vocals have often infused live performances with the right energy to shore up subtle touches that couldn’t be reproduced live. I think of her vocals on “Hold Me” and “Eyes”—two songs in which, for the studio versions, she was, significantly, absent. Her presence on the live readings give those songs some serious lift. And then there’s LB himself, whose frenetic guitar work and boundless nervous energy transforms pleasant and/or contained studio songs into breakout moments on stage. It is true that some of their songs simply don’t work as well live: some of Christine’s softer, subtler material, for instance—but that is largely because Christine’s voice works better in a chamber than in an arena. Still, her own propulsive keyboard work on songs like “Angel” really added to the group sound in ways that wasn’t as readily evident on the records.

I guess what I’m saying is I’ve always loved FM’s split personality: their live music was, even from it’s earliest days, meant to be an abstraction of the disciplined records. One used to go to Mac concerts to be bewitched (and not just by Stevie’s twirls). The transformation from sonic studio professionals to raucous yet inventive rock-n-rollers was worth seeing. For whatever reason, by 1982, LB was over it, wanted a more polished sound. Perhaps this was his recognition that FM’s fan base was getting older, more yuppified? Or maybe he himself was tired of tearing apart his precious darlings on stage...Either way, the desire to sound like the albums goes against the band’s natural strengths.

Last edited by aleuzzi; 10-30-2020 at 10:02 PM..
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  #60  
Old 10-30-2020, 10:48 PM
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I remember when I first heard “Doing What I Can” live. It possessed a raw fervor at which the studio version had never hinted. Live can make generic genuine.
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