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  #31  
Old 03-21-2019, 06:13 AM
bwboy bwboy is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
LBCM werenít able to fill mid-sized amphitheaters. Donít think that went unnoticed.

The sad reality is that Fleetwood Mac isnít a $100 million band without her, and I canít fault them for picking sides when that kind of money was involved. There are a lot of people on that payroll.
This. When Lindsey and Christine toured together, they hired a band they could afford, leaving Mick and John out. So even though Buck/Vie was really a FM album, there was no money to be made for the band if they toured as FM. And touring is how Mick and John make their money. Touring is how Mick and John always made their income. They may be wealthy, but they still have bills to pay. It's funny that some people here think FM should have retired when they fired Lindsey, in order to "keep their legacy intact." Legacies don't pay the bills, and mansions and yachts and college educations for the kids and grandkids don't come cheap. Plus, they really like touring, not just Mick and John, but everyone else, too.
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  #32  
Old 03-21-2019, 07:08 AM
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^^^^^ alternative facts. you can't just make stuff up and state it as truth without being called on it.

it was Mick and John's (well let's face it - i have no doubt it was Mick's! ) decision not to tour with them. so it would not be Fleetwood Mac. they could have toured with them, and even as Fleetwood Mac. Mick wanted to make sure his cash cow is intact.
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  #33  
Old 03-21-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
True. However, sheís still at least an arena act as a solo artist. LBCM werenít able to fill mid-sized amphitheaters. Donít think that went unnoticed.

I personally believe LBCM could have been an arena act as part of a double bill if Mick and John had toured with them and it had been called Fleetwood Mac. But, that would have been risky to the long term viability of Fleetwood Mac.

The sad reality is that Fleetwood Mac isnít a $100 million band without her, and I canít fault them for picking sides when that kind of money was involved. There are a lot of people on that payroll.
are you?

talking about "little people" on FM payroll that you are so worried about, there are plenty of stories how much Lindsey was protecting people from Stevie / Karen random rage decisions. gotta wonder what's been happening now when that protection is gone.

remember Jana's post about it, relatively recently?
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  #34  
Old 03-21-2019, 07:22 AM
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I've wondered about Brett Tuggle. I found it odd how he want from Stevie's band ($), to Lindsey's band (less $? and less touring), to leaving FM altogether (unlike Neale Heywood) when Lindsey left.

Also, I know he was on the first leg, but was Neale on the second leg of the Buckingham-McVie tour?
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  #35  
Old 03-21-2019, 10:37 AM
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several points here:
  • this make Christine look really bad - a spineless, horrible and ignorant person.
  • it's not really clear in several of the places what exactly is she talking about, and which timeframe - before or after Lindsey was thrown out by Mick and Stevie? like - "it was a really hard time" - when? when she found out Lindsey was out and had to make a decision whether to stay in the band?
  • "Lindsey, you know...." what do we know? that they screwed him? but she doesn't want to say it because it's a done deal now? "I really don't want to harp on this very much, because what's done is done." well Christine, even though it's a done deal, you can make it better or worse by saying hurtful stuff. and you are definitely making it worse.
  • did Mick tell her they'll disband if she says she's out if Lindsey is out - since apparently Mick told her Lindsey has to be out, there's no discussion about that, because there will be no FM 5 if they try to call Lindsey back because in that case Stevie will leave? "just too much animosity between certain members of the band"
  • the writer seems to describe Christine as being sad about the whole situation - "genuine regret at how things turned out" - yet other than that "really hard time" she doesn't say anywhere that she's sad about it so was there more that she said and they didn't quote? if so, why?
  • Christine obviously has no clue what democracy means. it's almost like Mick threw around the term and told her to use it and now she's using it.

talking about Mick, man we have to get to his ridiculous nonsensical logic. i just don't even feel like re-reading his blabbering-fool wording. one of these days.
I understand your anger and share much of it, but I'll refrain from judging Christine since, after a 16-yrear break, she stepped into a minefield. It's clear she has more musical respect for Lindsey than anyone else. He is her true collaborator. It's also true that Christine's sense of loyalty is to a band that she has loved and joined long before he was a part of that. That she sought out Mick to help her over her fear of flying says how close she is with him. Yes, all of the Brits chose the corporate entity over the creative surge of new music--but they clearly had to choose! THAT is not their fault. THAT fault belongs to the two who couldn't abide one another and made life miserable for everyone else.

Do I wish the band chose Lindsey over Stevie? You bet. The possibilities would have been so rich! But it simply wasn't going to happen. Greed, fear, and an entity called Management made sure of that. I don't think Christine had much of a choice if she wanted to stay involved--and she wants to stay involved.
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  #36  
Old 03-21-2019, 10:50 AM
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This all came as a surprise to...?

These vapid, shallow, sad caricatures.
Did they forget you can't take it with you?

Odd to me that they chose dollars over respect and reputation.
This is what, in the end, they'll be remembered for.

Greed's karma is a bitch.
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  #37  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:30 AM
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Exactly. It wasn't that long ago that she was opening for Rod Stewart. This idea that she's equal to FM with respect to her ability to draw a crowd solo is ridiculous.
100 percent agree. The last tour she did was successful because it was a double bill of classic rock acts. If she toured solo again with zero opening act she wouldn't get the numbers she had for 24karat gold She would likely get the same or slightly better then Buckvie got on their tour.

Tina Tuner last toured at aged 68-69 11 years ago with no support act and she sold out on her name alone. She didn't need an opener to sell tickets.

The fans who blindly worship her won't ever concede that though.

When I saw the Rod Stewart tour in MTL I was the ONLY SN fan there. Everyone else was there for him hands down. As soon as he hit the stage the went wild. When she performed her set they sat down and while they were respectful and clapped etc they were not dancing in the aisles either.
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  #38  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:42 AM
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On Facebook there is a real crazed SN worshiper. Back when Lindsey was fired last year he attacked me on my wall and Lindsey a Bastard. Then he tried to say that the Buckingham McVie album was titled just that as a kiss off to SN referencing the Buckingham Nicks album. Later on in the year he rambles on about Lindsey's boring solo's and how he has to do them to try and compete with her talent. Yesterday he and I got into it and I just have to laugh at his stupid comments. All year long he was saying we don't know what happened or that Lindsey wasn't a team player etc and when I pointed out that the band has had three stories going about why he was fired and can't seem to stick to one he responds by saying that there are lots of stories going around and I cherry picking ones. Really??? Quoting what the band and PR people put out is cherry picking???

It gets better

He and another SN worshiper attack a friend of mine calling her out for being a Trump supporter and that that explains why she would support Lindsey vs supporting a strong intelligent women. Then go on and on about republicans don't have any strong intelligent women in their party etc. Not sure how being a Trump supporter has anything to do with supporting Lindsey.

I swear I can't make this **** up.
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  #39  
Old 03-21-2019, 12:00 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by Nicks Fan View Post
100 percent agree. The last tour she did was successful because it was a double bill of classic rock acts. If she toured solo again with zero opening act she wouldn't get the numbers she had for 24karat gold She would likely get the same or slightly better then Buckvie got on their tour.

Tina Tuner last toured at aged 68-69 11 years ago with no support act and she sold out on her name alone. She didn't need an opener to sell tickets.

The fans who blindly worship her won't ever concede that though.

When I saw the Rod Stewart tour in MTL I was the ONLY SN fan there. Everyone else was there for him hands down. As soon as he hit the stage the went wild. When she performed her set they sat down and while they were respectful and clapped etc they were not dancing in the aisles either.
Plus, it was the first time BuckVie ever toured. And they extended the tour. It was fantastic as far as I'm concerned. To compare it to SN/Pretenders tour is a bit ignorant of the circumstances. BuckVie made it's artistic imprint for the year and I'm quite impressed. What a summer of fun.
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Last edited by jbrownsjr; 03-21-2019 at 12:19 PM..
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  #40  
Old 03-21-2019, 12:46 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
Mick wanted to make sure his cash cow is intact.
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Originally Posted by elle View Post

talking about "little people" on FM payroll that you are so worried about, there are plenty of stories how much Lindsey was protecting people from Stevie / Karen random rage decisions. gotta wonder what's been happening now when that protection is gone.

remember Jana's post about it, relatively recently?
Well, Mick wanted to make sure his cow was intact, we all know his cash rarely is.

Can you point to the Jana post? I recall one about Lindsey spending a couple hours on a flight discussing her music and having learned one of her songs to give her feedback etc. but not anything re: shielding people from rage decisions.
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  #41  
Old 03-21-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
I understand your anger and share much of it, but I'll refrain from judging Christine since, after a 16-year break, she stepped into a minefield. It's clear she has more musical respect for Lindsey than anyone else. He is her true collaborator. It's also true that Christine's sense of loyalty is to a band that she has loved and joined long before he was a part of that. That she sought out Mick to help her over her fear of flying says how close she is with him. Yes, all of the Brits chose the corporate entity over the creative surge of new music--but they clearly had to choose! THAT is not their fault. THAT fault belongs to the two who couldn't abide one another and made life miserable for everyone else.

Do I wish the band chose Lindsey over Stevie? You bet. The possibilities would have been so rich! But it simply wasn't going to happen. Greed, fear, and an entity called Management made sure of that. I don't think Christine had much of a choice if she wanted to stay involved--and she wants to stay involved.
This is pretty much how I feel, too. And it appears to be the way the writer of the Mojo article was trying to describe Christine as well: stuck between a rock and a hard place. All that being said, I do think her "better than what we ever had before" is deeply regrettable. It's just so unnecessary in this context.
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  #42  
Old 03-21-2019, 01:32 PM
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Sorry, Iím lost with this one.

Isnít this article just a miss-mash of the comments that Lindsey has already made and the band being very vague and not actually admitting anything? Not Lindsey or Stevie bashing, just wanting to know if this is fans jumping to conclusions or if theyíve actually openly talked about what happened and ultimatums made by Stevie?
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  #43  
Old 03-21-2019, 01:36 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
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This is pretty much how I feel, too. And it appears to be the way the writer of the Mojo article was trying to describe Christine as well: stuck between a rock and a hard place. All that being said, I do think her "better than what we ever had before" is deeply regrettable. It's just so unnecessary in this context.
that almost sounds like a line written by the band's management/PR. It's sort of the typical album/tour/project promotion bs "best we've/I've ever done" "we/I had the most fun of anything we/I have ever worked on" etc etc.. Until promotion for the next thing happens and then they say how awful or difficult or whatever the previous ("best thing we've done") project/tour was. So maybe once they're off the road we could hear even more of the dirt.... Kinda surprising they are even saying what they're saying now... But I suspect it's because they've just been consistently called out as liars for so long now. Plus, they've realized it won't hurt ticket sales so what the hell, why not admit it. Although you'll never hear SN admit it, because while it won't necessarily affect her ticket sales it will affect her ego and her obsession with her "legacy".

Really, though, legacy lives on through your music. If your music is really that impactful people will be singing it forever and it becomes "classic". Other than Landslide, her songs aren't covered very much. I think of the Beatles, and everyone from other rockers to crooners like Sinatra covered their stuff. Stevie's songs can be hard to sing if you aren't Stevie because they are sooooo specifically written for her range and style; when other people sing them them their monotony becomes way too apparent. Her *stage* performances and her *visual* image have been far more impactful to how other female performers present themselves. She used to want to go down as a great songwriter; I'm afraid that's not going to be her biggest legacy, in part because she blew it off.
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  #44  
Old 03-21-2019, 01:53 PM
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“Stevie is just unbelievable,” says McVie. “The more I see her perform on stage the better I think she is. She holds the fort. She’s a brand. We’re quite different in that way - I have an outside life. I live in London not the States. I like going shopping on my own. I have more of a normal life than her and that keeps me grounded. I have other friends and I do other things. I enjoy going sailing. Stevie is devoted to her career and boy, does she do it well.”


https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/cul..._medium=social
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  #45  
Old 03-21-2019, 02:50 PM
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“Stevie is just unbelievable,” says McVie. “The more I see her perform on stage the better I think she is. She holds the fort. She’s a brand. We’re quite different in that way - I have an outside life. I live in London not the States. I like going shopping on my own. I have more of a normal life than her and that keeps me grounded. I have other friends and I do other things. I enjoy going sailing. Stevie is devoted to her career and boy, does she do it well.”


https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/cul..._medium=social
Well that is an eye-popping little quote, isn't it? Here's the full article

Christine McVie: inside the world of Fleetwood Mac, then and now
As the band prepares for its UK return in June, Christine McVie talks Glastonbury, rock 'n' roll and retirement
By Ella Alexander
March 21, 2019
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/cul...fleetwood-mac/

June 2019 will be a big month for music fans for two reasons – an under-the-radar, little-known festival called Glastonbury and the return of Fleetwood Mac, the band’s first UK dates in six years. Sadly, this year at least, the two aren’t linked, but lead vocalist and songwriter Christine McVie says any decision to perform at Glastonbury isn’t down to the band itself.

“It isn’t up to me, it’s up to the management,” said McVie. “It’s their decision and down to logistics. I can’t say yes or no to Glastonbury, but I’d like to – so long as I don’t have to wear wellington boots on stage. Or maybe I’d just have to roll with it – wellie boots with mud.”

For now, fans will have to make do with two UK gigs at Wembley (the first time that McVie has performed in the UK with the group since officially rejoining), one of which sold out so fast that the band added a further date. Over 50 years after the band were first formed, appetite for Fleetwood Mac shows no signs of waning.

“Maybe people are just wondering when the first one of us is going to pop off because we’re not youngsters anymore,” laughs McVie. “Maybe people want to see us because they think it’s the last chance. We’re a young band at heart; you’d never think we are the age we are. We’re never static. It’s going to be fantastic.”

Any self-respecting rock ‘n’ roll band has encountered its fair share of drama, and Fleetwood Mac is no anomaly. There have been marriage, divorces and fall-outs, most recently the replacement of guitarist and vocalist Lindsey Buckingham after he was unceremoniously fired – a situation McVie described as “untenable”. The new line-up comprises Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Stevie Nicks, and McVie along with newcomers Mike Campbell and Neil Finn.

“In the 70s, we were gods and goddesses,” says McVie. “Rumours was huge. We were a lot of younger and for a time it was a brilliant. It’s definitely more sober now. I think we’ve got better as I’ve grown older. We’re the best band we’ve ever been.”

For McVie, music was always her one true love. She dabbled with the idea of becoming an art teacher, but let that fall by the wayside (“I obviously didn’t fancy doing my last year of teacher training”) and started working as a window dresser in a department store. In 1967, she joined Chicken Shack where she first came across Fleetwood Mac on tour.

“I’ve never wanted to do anything else,” she says. “The band are like my family. I started writing songs when I was very young, but I wasn’t very good. In fact, I was quite paranoid about it. Then I joined Fleetwood Mac and Mick encouraged me to keep trying. I wrote all the time during that time and my pop developed into more of a blues style. It was Mick who told me to persevere and eventually I wrote a few good songs.”

A few good songs such as Don’t Stop, which chronicled how she felt after her separation from John McVie after eight years of marriage; You Make Lovin' Fun, about an affair she had with the band’s lighting director while she was still married to McVie (she told her husband that it was about her dog); and, of course, the perennial Songbird, which she wrote in just 30 minutes.

Fleetwood had a sound that was pivotal not only to the generation they were first born into, but for generations to come. But it wasn’t and still isn’t just the music that fans gravitate towards; it’s also to do with the chemistry shared between band members. McVie and Stevie Nicks shared a particularly close bond – Nicks calls her a mentor, sister and best friend. They shared and experienced a lot together – bad break-ups and affairs that probably shouldn’t have happened but did – all on a diet of drugs, alcohol and zero sleep. McVie says it was and still is their differences that make them close.

“Stevie is just unbelievable,” says McVie. “The more I see her perform on stage the better I think she is. She holds the fort. She’s a brand. We’re quite different in that way - I have an outside life. I live in London not the States. I like going shopping on my own. I have more of a normal life than her and that keeps me grounded. I have other friends and I do other things. I enjoy going sailing. Stevie is devoted to her career and boy, does she do it well.”

McVie says that, although they were on the road for a lot of the time in a male-dominated industry, she never came across any sexism or misconduct. “But maybe that’s just because we were surrounded by terrific guys,” she muses. “The guys in the band were all gentleman, as were the crew.”

It would be bitterly disappointing if such a legendary band hadn’t indulged in a rock ‘n’ roll lifestyle – and Fleetwood live up to expectations. McVie says her relationship with co-founder of The Beach Boys Dennis Wilson was her “craziest time”.

“We all drank a lot and did a lot of cocaine, we partied a lot, I don’t think I did anything terribly outrageous,” she says. “Except I once threw a cake out the window which landed on top of taxi. I was kind of the good girl in the group. That’s who I was. Stevie used to call me Mother Earth because I was always pretty grounded.”

However, being on the road took its toll on McVie and in 1998 – the same years she was inducted into Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - she quit the band and went into retirement for 15 years. She moved to Kent where she restored a Tudor house and kept a low profile. A fear of flying stopped her from going too far. But Mick Fleetwood has a knack of bringing people together, and he reached out to McVie at the right time.

She had started seeing a therapist to deal with her flying phobia, who – after a few sessions – asked her where in the world she’d most to be if she could fly anywhere.

“I said Maui because that’s where Mick was living at the time,” she said. “So, the therapist said, ‘why don’t you just a buy a ticket. You don’t have to get on the plane, just buy the ticket.’ Then as irony would have it, Mick called me just after and said ‘Look, I’m coming to London, are you around?’ I told him that I’d just bought a ticket to see him and he said, ‘well I’ll meet you in London then and we’ll fly back together.’ So that’s what I did.”

McVie rejoined the band not long after, and, as she says herself, the band has never sounded better – and, thankfully, retirement couldn’t be further away. “Mick Fleetwood is the granddaddy of the band and he will do anything to keep it together.

“Not many bands have had the same longevity; there is life in the old girl yet. It’s about finding new inspiration and enjoyment for each other. As long as we have that we’ll keep going.”

Last edited by jeets2000; 03-21-2019 at 03:25 PM..
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