Get Tusked

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by cbBen

1. Ken gave one of the two speeches (at 2:00) when Lindsey won the Les Paul Award in 2011, so the antipathy can't be all that deep seated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4-43mtTVBA

2. As he's explained elsewhere, between Mirage and Tango Lindsey learned to engineer, which rendered Ken redundant and no longer needed. Don't know whether that's truly the reason for his lack of involvement, but it at least makes sense.

I always found that whole exchange between the two of them at that award ceremony pretty painful. It is polite but sure doesn't scream warm and fuzzy. Pretty stiff and awkward.

[FuzzyPlum]

'...He again demanded that they would delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half while he finished his solo record, and his solo records never sell anything. He gave them the ultimatum that he would quit, so the band talked and said, “You know what? Why don’t we just fire you? You’ve pulled that trick one too many times. We don’t care.”


What a complete sh!t Ken is turning out to be. He's gone right down hill in my estimation.
'...Delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half'.
It's now up to a year and a half? Any takers for 2 years???? Where did a year and a half come from? Mick? John?

'...You've pulled that trick one too many times'.
When has he ever pulled that trick? Ken may be referencing Lindsey threatening to do a solo record at the time of Tusk, but I don't recall him ever threatening to quit if they refused to allow him to do a solo record and tour.

'...His solo records never sell anything'....you d!ck Ken. Shut up!

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I always found that whole exchange between the two of them at that award ceremony pretty painful. It is polite but sure doesn't scream warm and fuzzy. Pretty stiff and awkward.

Always felt the same.

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by kak125

"I went on to make three more records with them.”

Live, Mirage, and ??? (audio for the Mirage tour video? In The Meantime?)?

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

'...You've pulled that trick one too many times'.

When has he ever pulled that trick? Ken may be referencing Lindsey threatening to do a solo record at the time of Tusk, but I don't recall him ever threatening to quit if they refused to allow him to do a solo record and tour

Recall from the Destiny Rules documentary that Lindsey threatened to take his ball (or at least his best songs) and go home if the band didn't agree to make Say You Will a double album. At the very least, he stamped his feet and used other emotionally manipulative tactics to lobby for that outcome.

Also–and for the record I think he was totally reasonable in doing so–by his own acknowledgement after the Say You Will tour he insisted (maybe "asked" is more accurate) that the band give him four uninterrupted years off to do two solo albums and tours.

And finally, while we don't know what ultimatums Lindsey may have made in the climactic fight excluded from Destiny Rules, Ken (being friends with Mick) may well.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Recall from the Destiny Rules documentary that Lindsey threatened to take his ball (or at least his best songs) and go home if the band didn't agree to make Say You Will a double album. At the very least, he stamped his feet and used other emotionally manipulative tactics to lobby for that outcome.

Also–and for the record I think he was totally reasonable in doing so–by his own acknowledgement after the Say You Will tour he insisted (maybe "asked" is more accurate) that the band give him four uninterrupted years off to do two solo albums and tours.

And finally, while we don't know what ultimatums Lindsey may have made in the climactic fight excluded from Destiny Rules, Ken (being friends with Mick) may well.

and the various threats made by Stevie over the years to either not participate or to publicly trash band projects if she didn't get her way.

I have to think the BuckVie project really pushed her over the edge.

[elle]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

'...He again demanded that they would delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half while he finished his solo record, and his solo records never sell anything. He gave them the ultimatum that he would quit, so the band talked and said, “You know what? Why don’t we just fire you? You’ve pulled that trick one too many times. We don’t care.”

in that whole interview Ken comes across as a person who is kept out of the loop trying to look like he’s still at least somewhat in the loop - and therefore making stuff up when asked questions, so he can give that impression.

he doesn't have answers so he makes them up. he admits hasn't talked to Lindsey in ages, but he seems to have a lot of pent up bitterness and anger towards him (how many times has he brought up that story of Lindsey chopping his hair off while the rest of them were still stuck in the long hair era? that seemed to have really riled up Ken!). so on the basis of Lindsey's behavior 40 years ago, he decided that Lindsey still must be the same angry young man, and full of hatred? although apparently he knows better - that if he did run into Lindsey, that unlike Ken, Lindsey doesn't hold any grudge towards him so they would get along.

it's also in the vein of what David noted earlier - Ken is pretty obviously making up the whole conversations to suit the pictures in his head. at the time of Lindsey's firing, Ken posted a comment on facebook that someone from FM entourage gave him Mick / CBS story of what happened (even though many fans already knew better at the time, guess we had better contacts!). Ken seems to still be sticking with that tour delay story, even though it has been debunked in the meantime (through the lawsuit, no less!), and even Mick is not pushing it anymore. meanwhile Ken made up the whole conversation (see quote above) on top of that story!

pretty weird!

[elle]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

yI'm still friendly with them but not close friends, as most of the stuff we shared together is in the past. I don't know why this is so hard for Ken to deal with. I think maybe because he doesn't feel he ever got I dunno properly acknowledged somehow by the band for his contributions? Listen, he got paid and still gets those royalties. Get over it already.

i think you might be putting your finger on something here:

Ken was credited as a producer for Rumours and Tusk and is getting all the royalties. Lindsey is not credited and is not getting those producing royalties. however, it seems that all music insiders know who was really the producer there. there is a recent podcast with Rob Cavallo, where he says something to that effect - everybody knows that Lindsey was the real producer there. so maybe that's what is Ken's problem? not getting the respect of his peers.


i also find it interesting how he projects some supposed technical ineptness as a reasoning why band members are not in contact with him. yet we know Christine has no problem using phone and social media, and Lindsey has been doing everything using his phone for like a decade now.

[sue]

I think Ken is just angry that Lindsey never said....we’ll done Ken...we made a great record.
He just wants Lindsey to say thanks, that’s all.
He still loves and admires Lindsey but just wants his thanks.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by cbBen

1. Ken gave one of the two speeches (at 2:00) when Lindsey won the Les Paul Award in 2011, so the antipathy can't be all that deep seated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4-43mtTVBA

2. As he's explained elsewhere, between Mirage and Tango Lindsey learned to engineer, which rendered Ken redundant and no longer needed. Don't know whether that's truly the reason for his lack of involvement, but it at least makes sense.

Ken once said in his Q&A on this site that he wasn't asked back to work on TANGO because of a musical argument with Lindsey.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by sue

I think Ken is just angry that Lindsey never said....we’ll done Ken...we made a great record.
He just wants Lindsey to say thanks, that’s all.
He still loves and admires Lindsey but just wants his thanks.

Insulting him and saying mean-spirited things about him interviews is not the way to go about this.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Ken once said in his Q&A on this site that he wasn't asked back to work on TANGO because of a musical argument with Lindsey.

He personally told me that he opted to not do Tango. (I'm serious) So he made it seem like it was his choice.

[jbrownsjr]

Ken really loves LB, he just has a really strange way of showing it.

Maybe he hates Christine because he really gives her huge props in the book (s).

[lovethemac1]

Here's my thoughts on "Get Tusked" (which I read):

1. Ken is an alpha male personality, seen by his comments about women and their physical attributes, and how these please him. He came across as rather shallow.
2. He is obsessed with the sounds of the album, being in control of that.
3. He REALLY likes to be in control.
4. Lindsey butted heads with him, not allowing him to be 100% in control.
5. Richard was far easier going, and got along with the band on a personal level, better than Ken. This maybe annoyed Ken?
6. As much as I don't mind grammatical mistakes, they really aren't a huge deal, one would think that purchasing a book would ensure that someone read the thing to edit and correct grammar. I noticed more than I ever have in a book previously (not to say that I don't have grammatical errors in my posts, but they aren't in a book form).

He annoyed me occasionally in this book, more than in the Rumours one.

However, this interview annoyed me beyond belief. What an idiot. I hope he is experiencing backlash online from it.
He is spouting incorrect things, showing he doesn't know the whole story.
He comes across as scrambling to tell some juicy information, but doesn't know s**t. Like some teenager wanting to be part of the group, but not part of the group, and trying RREEEEAAAALLLLL hard to be part of the group.

Maybe he was just jealous of Richard's relationship with Lindsey? Or jealous of Richards gentler personality?

[David]

Originally Posted by lovethemac1

Maybe he was just jealous of Richard's relationship with Lindsey? Or jealous of Richards gentler personality?

There seems to be a personality clash with Lindsey and Ken. I think all the behavioral motives we’ve all proffered are strong possibilities for their estrangement. But I also think there’s a profound aesthetic or musical difference between the two, which happens to remind me of the musical difference between Lindsey and Stevie. Ken’s idea of a great rock song is Hot Blooded by Foreigner. Lindsey’s, not even close. It may seem reductive to some of you, but Foreigner seems emblematic of Ken’s aesthetic: radio-friendly, mainstream, “safe.” These aren’t driving factors in Lindsey’s art. Ken’s ex post facto musical concerns seem to boil down quite often to “I was right, it wasn’t a hit—radio didn’t like it.” It’s exactly the sort of opinion that Lindsey would have had no truck with, the sort of opinion that he spent his career either avoiding or confronting—in Mick, in Christine, in Stevie, in other musicians, in music execs, in the undiscerning public. When Ken writes about Lindsey—it’s been true for some time—he’s mordant and dismissive, as if he wanted to knock the “genius” off his high horse.

I’m going out on a limb here, but if Ken shared Lindsey’s much more adventurous tastes—if from the beginning he loved the Clash and the Talking Heads and the Ramones instead of Foreigner, and if he had been willing to view Fleetwood Mac in a bolder, riskier musical role—their working relationship from 1982 on might have been really different.