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  #31  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:38 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
I'd forgotten about this great example of how LB saved Mick's a$$ by making a hook-y catchy song for him off otherwise crappy solo work. When did Stevie ever contribute anything to any solo effort Mick attempted??

Also LB stated directly on his Twitter when he was still taking questions that producing Bob's solo version of Sentimental Lady and giving him a hit was done as a favor to Mick who'd asked him to help Bob out.

Seems like Lindsey's been the one helping Mick out in all sorts of ways over the years, including putting him Mick on a path to making money-- think about all that income that still keeps rolling in year after year off the albums.... Compared to tour money which is there and then it's done and gone.

Yet Mick still sees Stevie as his path to money. Explains a lot about why he's always going bankrupt.
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  #32  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:08 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
I'd forgotten about this great example of how LB saved Mick's a$$ by making a hook-y catchy song for him off otherwise crappy solo work. When did Stevie ever contribute anything to any solo effort Mick attempted??

Also LB stated directly on his Twitter when he was still taking questions that producing Bob's solo version of Sentimental Lady and giving him a hit was done as a favor to Mick who'd asked him to help Bob out.

Seems like Lindsey's been the one helping Mick out in all sorts of ways over the years, including putting him Mick on a path to making money-- think about all that income that still keeps rolling in year after year off the albums.... Compared to tour money which is there and then it's done and gone.

Yet Mick still sees Stevie as his path to money. Explains a lot about why he's always going bankrupt.
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  #33  
Old 10-18-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
Seems like Lindsey's been the one helping Mick out in all sorts of ways over the years, including putting him Mick on a path to making money.
He has certainly done many, many favors for Fleetwood. Makes me wonder why. Did he see Mick as some sort of big brother? The pattern was always: Lindsey does Mick a favor. Mick kicks Lindsey in the teeth. Lindsey, after picking himself up, does Mick another favor.
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  #34  
Old 10-18-2019, 05:20 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Well, I despise Mick, but Tusk was his favor to Lindsey. Mick made that happen. He convinced the others to let Lindsey do it. He told them Lindsey might leave the band if he couldn’t. He soothed ruffled feathers and buffered Lindsey. You know that album was one man’s vision out of the five band members and Mick used his authoritative position to level things so it wasn’t one against 4.

Also, I love Lindsey and I am content (thrilled) for him to have the personality he has but he’s, um... well, especially back then more than today, he was arrogant, bossy, demanding and difficult. Mick indulged him (because he thought Lindsey was largely responsible for the band’s success) and was a conduit. He was also in the studio with Lindsey all night long. He may have been drunk and coked out, but he was there.

Mick did things to warrant Lindsey’s gratitude, loyalty and his love, once upon a time.
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  #35  
Old 10-20-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Well, I despise Mick, but Tusk was his favor to Lindsey. Mick made that happen. He convinced the others to let Lindsey do it. He told them Lindsey might leave the band if he couldn’t. He soothed ruffled feathers and buffered Lindsey. You know that album was one man’s vision out of the five band members and Mick used his authoritative position to level things so it wasn’t one against 4.

Also, I love Lindsey and I am content (thrilled) for him to have the personality he has but he’s, um... well, especially back then more than today, he was arrogant, bossy, demanding and difficult. Mick indulged him (because he thought Lindsey was largely responsible for the band’s success) and was a conduit. He was also in the studio with Lindsey all night long. He may have been drunk and coked out, but he was there.

Mick did things to warrant Lindsey’s gratitude, loyalty and his love, once upon a time.
I guess you're right. I'll give this some thought. It just feels as if Mick kicked Lindsey in the teeth a lot over the years. The puzzling thing is why Lindsey continually opened up and let Mick in. I'm sure that Lindsey adored Mick's energy and charisma and even aspects of his personality. Mick is the kind of person that would hang out with Lindsey and jam with him and they would both explode with enthusiasm for the music - but then Mick would be a completely different person back at the office Monday morning and refuse to put anything equally combustible on the actual product. I think there was a certain level of cowardice in Mick with regard to the business of the band that Lindsey found distasteful. There is also Mick's fundamental lack of professionalism that Lindsey finds abhorrent, whether it's a ghostwritten book of tawdry "he said, she said," or a pickle-barrel concert video produced with none of the band's usual sophistication, or even the cockamamie business ventures that degrade the band name. Lindsey has probably always felt a strong attraction to Mick's musical artistry but a repulsion to his crassness and stupidity. (Much like me, come to think of it!)
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  #36  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
I'd forgotten about this great example of how LB saved Mick's a$$ by making a hook-y catchy song for him off otherwise crappy solo work.
Yep. Lindsey gave Mick that huge hit the album needed, because Lindsey was a massive hitmaker in 1983.

Quote:
When did Stevie ever contribute anything to any solo effort Mick attempted??
Aside from the video tie-in, occasionally making cameos at Zoo shows, or having him play percussion on her solo tour? Not much.

Quote:
Also LB stated directly on his Twitter when he was still taking questions that producing Bob's solo version of Sentimental Lady and giving him a hit was done as a favor to Mick who'd asked him to help Bob out.
Only a favor to Mick. He didn’t get a paid, get exposure as a producer, or have any direct benefit from having Christine McVie’s voice prominently featured on three songs in the top-40 in the autumn of 1977. Please. Anyway, it’s not like the band played any of Bob’s songs after he was a successful solo artist.

Quote:
Seems like Lindsey's been the one helping Mick out in all sorts of ways over the years, including putting him Mick on a path to making money-- think about all that income that still keeps rolling in year after year off the albums....
Think of how Fleetwood Mac had a contract and Buckingham Nicks got dropped after an album. Think of how Stevie and the McVies didn’t dig Tusk but Mick did. Mick helped Lindsey whether Lindsey realized it or not.

Quote:
Yet Mick still sees Stevie as his path to money.
Lindsey’s biggest solo album charted at #32. HAHTF hit #34. Of course he’s going to take the side of the one whose solo career was HOF worthy. That’s probably the smartest move he could make from a financial standpoint.

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Originally Posted by David View Post
It just feels as if Mick kicked Lindsey in the teeth a lot over the years. The puzzling thing is why Lindsey continually opened up and let Mick in.
He wouldn’t have a career without Mick, and (as mentioned) he wouldn’t have his equivalent of “Pet Sounds.” Mick stood by Lindsey until he couldn’t.

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I'm sure that Lindsey adored Mick's energy and charisma and even aspects of his personality. Mick is the kind of person that would hang out with Lindsey and jam with him and they would both explode with enthusiasm for the music - but then Mick would be a completely different person back at the office Monday morning and refuse to put anything equally combustible on the actual product.
I’m sure he had assistance. Mick’s creative heart seems to in one place (“The Visitor”), but knows it has to sell (“Mirage”). Lindsey isn’t that different. “Trouble” and “Down On Rodeo” were kept for solo projects, instead of Fleetwood Mac, for a reason.
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Last edited by SteveMacD; 10-21-2019 at 01:11 AM..
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  #37  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
I’m sure he had assistance. Mick’s creative heart seems to in one place (“The Visitor”), but knows it has to sell (“Mirage”). Lindsey isn’t that different.
As an artist, Lindsey is markedly different from Mick, which I thought I made clear. You have a statistical (rather than an aesthetic) bent to your thinking, which is why you are often blind to my context and subtext. Both Lindsey and Mick love trying something new—they are both explorative pioneering spirits, drawn to the idiosyncratic—but Lindsey is clearly a far more conscientious artist than Mick, and imbues his experimentation with a moral fervor for artistic (and business) integrity and sophistication. Mick engages repeatedly in artistic or business moves (or acts that combine both, such as overseeing production of a concert video or a marketing campaign) that sometimes skirt tastelessness or crassness. Mick forays into shlock in ways that Lindsey has no respect for, and Lindsey's reactions are almost always justifiable and reasonable. Mick's 1990 book, for example, degraded the name of Fleetwood Mac; it was shoddily compiled, executed for the crassest salacious reasons, and riddled with uncraftsmanlike errors and faults of judgment and taste. Mick has done countless things like that book in both musical and business terms. Unlike Lindsey, Mick doesn't even partially separate his bean-counter side from his creative side, whereas Lindsey has almost always separated the two, and when he couldn't, he always prioritized the creative side. Your reference to Trouble as a solo track instead of a Fleetwood Mac track (presumably because you think it's an obvious single) is inaccurate and largely irrelevant. There's no indication anywhere that Lindsey sat down deliberately to write a single with Trouble, first of all, and the track he ultimately crafted has enough sonic and lyrical merit that it would be idiotic to categorize it as a crass appeal to the mass audience. It's a quirky personal statement that is nonetheless pop. Yes, I realize that Lindsey called it the obvious single, but that's in the context of that particular album.
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  #38  
Old 10-21-2019, 08:28 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Your reference to Trouble as a solo track instead of a Fleetwood Mac track (presumably because you think it's an obvious single) is inaccurate and largely irrelevant. There's no indication anywhere that Lindsey sat down deliberately to write a single with Trouble, first of all, and the track he ultimately crafted has enough sonic and lyrical merit that it would be idiotic to categorize it as a crass appeal to the mass audience. It's a quirky personal statement that is nonetheless pop. Yes, I realize that Lindsey called it the obvious single, but that's in the context of that particular album.
I love Trouble and it's placement on the album.

The first four tracks of Bwana, Trouble, Mary Lee Jones, and Tell You are such a wonderful concise start of the album. In that context, Trouble feels like a sharp and terse interlude into the stylings of Mary Lee Jones.

As much as I love some of the tracks on Mick's albums. Lindsey actually understands his own concepts/visions and even has a grasp of the "avant Gard" elements in his pop. Whereas, Mick sort of throws a Hail Mary and hopes it lands into something that gives him funds, artistic accolades, or popularity. AND...needs other writers to help him formulate that end result.

I often wonder if he let Tusk happen just to keep the Rumors 5 together (anticipating another selling album afterward). vs. I see Lindsey's vision and I am going to back him up to let this compelling art make it's birth.
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Last edited by jbrownsjr; 10-22-2019 at 01:09 PM..
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  #39  
Old 10-21-2019, 08:44 PM
cbBen cbBen is offline
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Back to the topic of the thread, my suspicion is that it may not have been purely a case of Mike not knowing. There may have also another element at play:

Fleetwood Mac - I Don't Want to Know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwHHCn4sDec

Last edited by cbBen; 10-21-2019 at 08:48 PM..
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  #40  
Old 10-24-2019, 06:47 AM
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Quote:

my phone rang and I had met Mick once or twice at sessions or whatever but we weren’t like friends or anything. He said hi, how you doing, Lindsey has left the band… it’s what he told me, I didn’t know that he was asked to leave …

so he says would you be interested in joining Fleetwood Mac? He said this is not coming from Stevie, it’s coming from me and I have been listening to your catalogue and this is not an audition, if you want it, we would love to have you.
I said give me a day to think about it.
I thought over the whole Lindsey aspect of it and thought, this is a good thing. So I called back and said yeah
I don't buy he didn't know. If Lindsey left of his own free will, what "Whole Lindsey aspect" would he need to think about before deciding?

I also don't buy for a minute Stevie hadn't likely already been at Mike, hence Mick saying, this isn't Stevie, this is me asking.

That's just my take on it, TPATH was a brotherhood, & it's pretty anti rock n roll "bro-code" to take the lifelong gig of your supposed friend whom you respect, if he just got ****-canned
(for no good reason that I can see at this late stage in the game).

Doesn't make you look like the solidly cool dude you have always seemed to be, does it? Now THAT would be something to think about, IMO.

As far as the rest, I don't think Neil or Mike EVER considered themselves continuing FM members.
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  #41  
Old 10-25-2019, 12:55 AM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post

I often wonder if he let Tusk happen just to keep the Rumors 5 together (anticipating another selling album afterward). vs. I see Lindsey's vision and I am going to back him up to let this compelling art make it's birth.
Oh, it was definitely the former. I don’t think even Mick would bother to deny that
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  #42  
Old 10-25-2019, 01:37 PM
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If Lindsey left of his own free will, what "Whole Lindsey aspect" would he need to think about before deciding?
Playing another guitarist's solos, pretty much note for note, after performing ones that you crafted yourself the prior 40+ years.

I mean, can you imagine Jimmy Page or Keith Richards copying someone else's solos?
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  #43  
Old 10-25-2019, 03:59 PM
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Playing another guitarist's solos, pretty much note for note, after performing ones that you crafted yourself the prior 40+ years.

I mean, can you imagine Jimmy Page or Keith Richards copying someone else's solos?
That’s what I kept saying last year. “Mike Campbell does not want to play this stuff with another guy’s licks.” I don’t care what Mike himself tells the reporters. When you’re in a band that does covers, for example, it’s a very different line of work from what you do in a band that does originals. And when you join another established band just to tour the catalog, you’re a cover man. Mike Campbell is not Rick Vito.
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  #44  
Old 10-26-2019, 08:25 PM
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Playing another guitarist's solos, pretty much note for note, after performing ones that you crafted yourself the prior 40+ years.

I mean, can you imagine Jimmy Page or Keith Richards copying someone else's solos?
Definitely not. Point well made, and something I hadn't really given fair weight to.

There's just something about his response that rings disingenuous to me. I find it damn near impossible to believe Stevie didn't tell her "him or me" story to Mike first.

I completely agree that this is not creatively ideal for Mike, who has well-earned rock artist chops of his own. I have always been a TPATH fan. (American Girl is my favorite driving song , loud & fast) It must be hard for him, missing Tom, missing his own band, I'm sure by now he's eager to get back to doing his own thing.
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  #45  
Old 10-26-2019, 08:58 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
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He may think he's doing his good friend Stevie a favor.

She thinks she's doing him a favor, giving him something big to do that keeps him busy and not sinking into any sort of depression over Tom.

He gets to make a bunch of money (his songwriting royalties can't be bad either) and as he noted, he gets to travel around in private jets playing in big arenas.

Probably both interpretations have some validity. But they are rationalizations after the fact.
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