This absolutely disgusts me. - Page 3

strandinthewind · #31 02-19-2004, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
When Jesus came before Pilate, he said, "Do you know that I have the power to crucify You, and power to release You?" Jesus replied, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore, the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin." - John 19: 10-11

It was all supposed to happen the way it did. Pilate was supposed to ALLOW him to be crucified.

True, but I think God gave mankind the chance to refuse to crucify Him. Again, God is omnipotent, so He must have known man would fail - hence the new covenant in the Gospel or "Good News" as opposed to Lathspell or "Bad News" (this is a Grima Wormtoungue reference for you LOTR fans!!

)

strandinthewind · #32 02-19-2004, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Frankly, I'm just a little shocked to find that the Holy Spirit is something that can be treated with a drop of Listerine.

[Oops... was that blasphemy?]

Lord Child - if lightening from whatever source has not struck either of us yet . . . this comment will not provoke it

wondergirl9847 · #33 02-19-2004, 02:54 PM

Script?

How do you mean?

Life overall, is "scripted" in a figurative sense, IMO. Adam and Eve sinning and falling from grace, the Great Flood, Christ's death and resurrection....all part of the great plan. God's plan.

Like strand said, God is omnipotent, He knows everything that happened, is happening and will happen.

Johnny Stew · #34 02-19-2004, 02:57 PM

Not making light of the bible's importance, but one of the biggest questions I've always had... that no one has ever been able to answer for me.... is how the world became populated, when, according to the bible, God created Adam, and then Eve, who then bore two sons, Cain and Abel. And then much later, they gave birth to another son... Seth.

Now, with four men and one woman, how did the Earth become populated, if not by incest??? Even if Adam and Eve had daughters who weren't mentioned in the bible by name, it's still incestuous.

And the devoutly religious would much rather think that every single one of us is a product of incest, rather than believing the conclusion of science, that we were evolved?

In my opinion... for whatever it's worth... I believe the bible is, in many ways, like a book of parables, with it tales of wickedness and righteousness.
In the end, the moral of the story is to live your life as best you can, in order to be worthy to make your way to Heaven.

But I think some people take everything in the bible far too literally, and because of this, they cause some of the biggest problems in this world.
Their refusal to see the bible in a more abstract way, causes narrow-mindedness and intolerance.

When even the KKK can point to passages in the bible to excuse their hatred and bigotry, you know something is amiss.

CarneVaca · #35 02-19-2004, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
Script?

How do you mean?

Just teasing you a little, Chrissy. Though I don't share your faith (and I do have faith, just different) I respect your position.

wondergirl9847 · #36 02-19-2004, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strandinthewind
True, but I think God gave mankind the chance to refuse to crucify Him. Again, God is omnipotent, so He must have known man would fail - hence the new covenant in the Gospel or "Good News" as opposed to Lathspell or "Bad News" (this is a Grima Wormtoungue reference for you LOTR fans!! )

Yes, we have a choice whether to ask God for forgiveness and be "cleaned" of our sins, but Adam and Eve didn't give a choice to be completely without sin ala born without sin. Man is born sinful, and we choose, when we get of a certain maturity level, to either continue being sinful or ask God to cleanse us.

I'm glad we can discuss this w/o being rude and mean.

wondergirl9847 · #37 02-19-2004, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Just teasing you a little, Chrissy. Though I don't share your faith (and I do have faith, just different) I respect your position.

It's all good.

wondergirl9847 · #38 02-19-2004, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Now, with four men and one woman, how did the Earth become populated, if not by incest??? Even if Adam and Eve had daughters who weren't mentioned in the bible by name, it's still incestuous.

That is something I've questioned myself. Who did Cain and Abel have relations with to populate the earth!?!? I figure it WAS incest. Either that or there are women we don't know about. LOL It says in the Bible, all mysteries will be revealed in the end.

When even the KKK can point to passages in the bible to excuse their hatred and bigotry, you know something is amiss.

God warns us of false prophets...I think the KKK peeps qualify. LOL

CarneVaca · #39 02-19-2004, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
In the end, the moral of the story is to live your life as best you can, in order to be worthy to make your way to Heaven.

Bingo, Johnny! And what is heaven but the self-satisfaction of a mind and heart at peace with the knowledge that you have lived with integrity, compassion and a sense of stewardship for the those around you and the environment?

CarneVaca · #40 02-19-2004, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
Yes, we have a choice whether to ask God for forgiveness and be "cleaned" of our sins, but Adam and Eve didn't give a choice to be completely without sin ala born without sin. Man is born sinful, and we choose, when we get of a certain maturity level, to either continue being sinful or ask God to cleanse us.

I'm glad we can discuss this w/o being rude and mean.

Chrissy, I'm glad you mentioned original sin. Here's one of my biggest problems with Christianity. OK, so I look at my innocent little girl who has never so much as hurt a fly or even wasted a single moment to ever devise or act on anything "bad." Her little developing brain just has no room for it. What it has room for is the relentless pursuit of life, lunging for whatever catches her interest at any given moment. If she's sitting on the coach and something catches her eye across the room, she is going to throw herself off unless I catch her. What could possibly be more innocent than not even realizing that you can seriously hurt yourself in acting on your impulses brought on by that relentless pursuit of life? How can anyone possibly associate sin with anything this innocent little being ever does?

wondergirl9847 · #41 02-19-2004, 03:29 PM

Carne, God loves children more than we can ever know. He wants us all to love through a child's heart in that they don't see evil and hate on their own. They are TAUGHT it.

We are told to have faith like a child. As when a kid trusts an adult to feed, clothe and shelter them, so we should trust in our God.

Children have a greater understanding (along with people with mental disabilities, IMO) of God than we do, I believe. It's hard to explain what I mean about that.

"Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it." - Proverbs 22:6

When a child reaches a certain age, they can choose to either accept God or not.

strandinthewind · #42 02-19-2004, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
Carne, God loves children more than we can ever know. He wants us all to love through a child's heart in that they don't see evil and hate on their own. They are TAUGHT it.

We are told to have faith like a child. As when a kid trusts an adult to feed, clothe and shelter them, so we should trust in our God.

Children have a greater understanding (along with people with mental disabilities, IMO) of God than we do, I believe. It's hard to explain what I mean about that.

"Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it." - Proverbs 22:6

When a child reaches a certain age, they can choose to either accept God or not.

I agree, but a child that is not baptised can never enter the Kingdon of Heaven and cannot, therefore, be reuinted with the faithful at the end of the End Days. I just do not get that. I never have. Its one of those things I just coose, perhaps foolishly, to ignore like the animal sacrifices, etc.

CarneVaca · #43 02-19-2004, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Its one of those things I just coose, perhaps foolishly, to ignore like the animal sacrifices, etc.

Well, I guess I won't be inviting you over for a little ritual we perform on my birthday.

wondergirl9847 · #44 02-19-2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Its one of those things I just coose, perhaps foolishly, to ignore like the animal sacrifices, etc.

We're not supposed to sacrifice animals?

strandinthewind · #45 02-19-2004, 03:51 PM

Also, other people (alot of them actually) suddenly appeared once Adam and Eve were thrown out of Eden. For example, in Genesis we have Adam and Eve who bore Cain and Able. Cain kills Able, leaving three people in the world. Yet, we then have

Genesis 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Genesis 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Where did Cain's wife come from? Moreover, Genesis indicates most of these people lived well over 100 years, which seems next to impossible.

So, I just take all of that as like in all religions, there is some creation story, etc., that is symbolic and very powerful like the story of Adam and Eve's fall from grace, etc.