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  #1  
Old 01-14-2006, 04:10 PM
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Default "Mirage" & the Payola Controversy

The Wikipedia entry for "Mirage" has a section on the alleged payola controversy.

According to the entry, Warner Brothers refused to pay third parties to get the album played on the radio, so the third parties struck back by forcing radio stations to play the album just to get it to No. 1, & then stop playing the album to get it to fall off the charts quicker than it would have otherwise.

This whole thing & its relationship to "Mirage" is totally new to me. Had any of you ever heard that Warner Brothers used "Mirage" to try to fight the indie third-party billing for radio play (which had been going on for years)?

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  #2  
Old 01-14-2006, 04:53 PM
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Whoa. I had never heard of this and think it's pretty interesting. Might all of this had something to do w/ Radio stations playing Tusk on the radio allowing all people w/ tape recorders to have the album for "free?" If I had been the company, I'd have been pretty ticked. Not to mention that Tusk on out till what TITN got shabby reviews. I think they had better luck w/ Mirage getting more of an audience w/ the addition of MTV and video's, but that's just my take.
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2006, 06:35 PM
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never heard of it.
but I can say that the better AOR stations in NY were all over Hold Me, Gypsy, Can't Go Back, Love In Store, and Straight Back.
It was a pretty big album on the radio during that summer.
All summer long.
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  #4  
Old 01-14-2006, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontlookdown
never heard of it.
but I can say that the better AOR stations in NY were all over Hold Me, Gypsy, Can't Go Back, Love In Store, and Straight Back.
It was a pretty big album on the radio during that summer.
All summer long.
I was never a devout rock radio listener, but in Los Angeles markets, airplay for the album fell off after the tour ended. I never attributed it to industry politics, however. I assumed that public demand for the album had abated. It was the era of the Prophet & Oberheim bands from England.
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Old 01-14-2006, 06:41 PM
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Sounds like BS to me. That bogus "Lindsey collaborator" Brian Larsen (I think that's his name) has shown us how reliable Wikipedia is when it comes to "facts."
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  #6  
Old 01-15-2006, 07:37 AM
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How weird is that? I guess anything's possible when it comes to Fleetwood Mac. They always end up in the middle of every controversy!
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  #7  
Old 01-15-2006, 02:04 PM
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I wanna know more about "Straight Back" being played on the radio

That's HOT


I heard it charted on the "MAINSTREAM ROCK" charts?


Anyone know about this? CHILI? David? someone!

hahaha

thanks
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2007, 02:45 PM
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It has been two years, and there is still no reference in the wikipedia page about where this information came from. I have never heard about this anywhere but on this webpage.

This part I don't even understand:
Quote:
To demonstrate their control over the radio industry (by getting rid of any possibility that the album might not have been played due simply to the quality of the album), the indies mandated the album to be played, causing a rise in the Billboard charts, and then again forbade it, causing a fall.
How would it benefit these third party mystery men for the album to have a quick rise and fall?
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2007, 04:01 PM
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I don't know anything about this. This is the only article I found which mentions Mirage, airplay, sales, etc.

Fresno Bee, April 7, 1991

Section: SPOTLIGHT

CHARTING A COURSE MUSICIANS PLAY A NUMBERS CONTEST


David Barton McClatchy News Service

""Everyone wants a No. 1,'' said Jeff Keith, lead singer for Tesla, the Sacramento rock group. Its third album, ""Five Man Acoustical Jam,'' has sold more than 500,000 copies and is No. 15 on this week's Billboard Top Pop Albums chart.

""We didn't aim to get there,'' he added. ""But it would mean a lot.''

A lot of money. And a lot of pride. Chart success isn't everything, but the charts are to pop music what league standings are to sports and the Dow Jones is to business: the definitive public expression of success. (The top 10 entries on Billboard's album, pop, country and R&B singles charts are published in The Bee Sundays. See Page 20.)

""I think the charts are the best measurement of the state of music there is,'' said Paul Grein, who writes Billboard's Chart Beat column. ""(A chart) tells the drama of the music business. The winners and losers, the careers resurging, the rookies beating the veterans. It's like a Miss America Pageant every week, or going to the racetrack.''

The charts note sales and radio play in a variety of fields, from singles (the Hot 100) to key rock album tracks. Separate charts break out airplay and sales for specific genres and radio formats, including country, adult-contemporary and rap.

The key chart for most rock and pop performers is the Billboard Top Pop Albums chart, which lists the top 200 albums every week. This is the crucial chart, the chart all others feed into. You can sell all the singles you want, but unless you have an album in the upper reaches of the Top Pop Albums chart, you're not a solid, across-the-board success.

The album chart was begun by Billboard in 1945, when the end of World War II made shellac more available and record companies began to compile 78s into the new long-playing ""album'' form. Now, the album chart is only one of the many used to track success in pop and its tributary genres. Other charts cover rhythm and blues, rap, country, new-age, jazz, and a dozen other genres.

Billboard isn't the only compiler of charts. Trade magazines such as Radio and Records, Cashbox, and College Music Journal, and radio-specific tip sheets such as the Gavin Report, all compile their own charts. Even a consumer publication like Rolling Stone compiles and publishes its own charts.

But Billboard is widely regarded as the standard, particularly among the general public and the media. To create these definitive charts, a staff of nearly two dozen, working at computers in New York, Los Angeles, and Nashville, Tenn., logs some 800 hours a week gathering statistics from some 205 retail ""contacts,'' who give sales figures for a variety of artists.

Those 205 contacts represent almost 4,500 retail outlets around the country, because one contact can be the head of a retail chain, such as Wherehouse Records, which might represent as many as 700 stores.

Of the 205 contacts reporting, Billboard uses about 160 a week, rotating among the 205 so no one is sure which statistics are being used. The reporting contacts are ""weighted,'' divided by sales volume into seven or eight categories. An enormous chain is weighted more than a mom-and-pop store because it sells many times more units.

Charts compiled for singles and specialty music, whether country or rap or new-age, are all compiled differently, with airplay a significant element. But the Top Pop Albums chart is based strictly on sales.

Those sales vary from city to city, but by collecting information from strategic locations, Billboard can put together a broad national picture.

One store that reports to Billboard is Tower Records on Watt Avenue in Sacramento, where compact-disc-buyer Rob McCall fills out a weekly report. McCall said Billboard sends him a list of at least 200 titles with codes for each title. He tells them the store's top 50 sellers, using the code. Instead of sales figures, he gives them the rankings of the albums.

""It's like college-basketball rankings,'' said McCall. ""When a college gets so many No. 1 rankings, it becomes No. 1. It's relative to the other teams.''

Between cities, even between stores in one city, there are likely to be differences, McCall said. In Sacramento, ""a few titles have surprised us. "Steve Miller's Greatest Hits' has been high in our chart, much higher than in Billboard, which we attribute to KZAP (a rock-oldies station) playing Miller's stuff a lot. The rap group Digital Underground is No. 6 on our chart, and it's No. 29 nationally.''

But, he adds, ""Everything we have on our chart is on the Billboard Top 200. Sacramento doesn't have a real music scene that would distinguish it from Mainstreet, U.S.A.''

As for the chart's effect on customer's purchases, McCall discounts it: ""I think radio has more effect than a Billboard chart. Customers look at the chart just to find out the title of a song, just for reference. People want to hear what it sounds like, not whether other people are buying it.''

The album chart, like all charts, is not perfect. One problem, said Billboard's Grein, is that it is a relative listing, not an absolute one.

""For example, in 1982, records weren't selling anywhere near what they were in 1987, but you still had albums and singles at No. 1 for the same period of time,'' said Grein. ""Fleetwood Mac's "Mirage' was No. 1 for five weeks, and top-five for 17 weeks, but it wasn't a big seller -- it won by default. If it had come out a year later (when the industry had improved) it wouldn't have gone above No. 4 or 5.''

A greater concern is manipulation. The likely culprits would be labels that might attempt to create the impression that an album was selling better than it was, thus fueling sales to other retailers.

Charts that involve reports of airplay, such as the singles chart, can be affected by the people who do the reporting, since airplay is difficult to document. But the album chart is based solely on sales, which are checked by the Record Industry Association of America. The association periodically audits the books of record companies to determine sales for its gold and platinum awards, and keeps an eye out for irregularities.

One way in which the album chart might be manipulated is through exaggerated advance orders. An album by a major act that ""ships gold'' (meaning that 500,000 copies were ordered by record stores) gives the impression that the group has sold half a million copies. But those aren't sales; records ordered can be returned by retailers for credit.

Chart-compiling is an imperfect system, but it apparently works pretty well for all involved.

But the one thing the charts don't even try to reflect is quality. Just because something is No. 1 doesn't mean it is the best album out -- it simply means it is selling the best. Quality, unlike sales, can't be measured, compiled, or graphed out.

""(Being on the charts) is great,'' said Tesla's Keith. ""But it doesn't really change our perspective. We'd be doing what we're doing even if it wasn't selling this well. Being No. 1 would mean a lot, but feeling good about what we're doing is more important.''
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2007, 05:04 PM
buckymcnix buckymcnix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermicious knid View Post
How would it benefit these third party mystery men for the album to have a quick rise and fall?
just to show that they could make the album number one and then also make it fall right off the charts. Just to show how much power over the charts they had - then people wouldn't balk at paying them. In fact, they then could probably charge more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
I don't know anything about this. This is the only article I found which mentions Mirage, airplay, sales, etc.

Fresno Bee, April 7, 1991

""For example, in 1982, records weren't selling anywhere near what they were in 1987, but you still had albums and singles at No. 1 for the same period of time,'' said Grein. ""Fleetwood Mac's "Mirage' was No. 1 for five weeks, and top-five for 17 weeks, but it wasn't a big seller -- it won by default. If it had come out a year later (when the industry had improved) it wouldn't have gone above No. 4 or 5.''

Being on top of the pile in a down market doesn't mean you wouldn't be on top in an up-market as well.
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  #11  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:32 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckymcnix View Post
Being on top of the pile in a down market doesn't mean you wouldn't be on top in an up-market as well.

Indeed. In fact, it could mean that you could have been on top with even stronger sales in an up-market. Michele
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2007, 09:58 PM
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I once had an argument with David Barton over which was the better song: Walk a Thin Line on "Tusk" vs. Walk a Thin Line on "The Visitor."

Barton preferred the latter & I, the former.
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2007, 10:35 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
I once had an argument with David Barton over which was the better song: Walk a Thin Line on "Tusk" vs. Walk a Thin Line on "The Visitor."

Barton preferred the latter & I, the former.
Wow, I like them both... I'd have to go with the FM version I guess... tough call however...
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
... but in Los Angeles markets, airplay for the album fell off after the tour ended. I never attributed it to industry politics, however. I assumed that public demand for the album had abated. It was the era of the Prophet & Oberheim bands from England.
Mick didn't mention anything about third parties and payments in his book. He said the album fell off the charts after the tour ended too. kind of complaining to his fellows, cause apparently they didn't want a long tour like the Tusk one again.
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Old 12-07-2007, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny4406 View Post
I wanna know more about "Straight Back" being played on the radio

That's HOT


I heard it charted on the "MAINSTREAM ROCK" charts?


Anyone know about this? CHILI? David? someone!

hahaha

thanks
When I was living in Boston during the Mirage era, I distinctly recall hearing Straight Back on the radio several times. I remember, at the end of the song, the DJ saying "that was a tasty track from Fleetwood Mac." Of course this was a time when radio programers could play what they liked and weren't under corporate constraint. (I think the radio station was WBCN, which was very progressive anyway.)Though I think the lyrics could have been better, Lindsey certainly did his best to punch up the song. It was a yet another missed opportunity -- they should have included it the Mirage tour set list. It could have been, with some tweaked arrangement, a stand-out...tasty...performance.
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Last edited by PenguinHead; 12-07-2007 at 06:47 PM..
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