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  #61  
Old 04-30-2020, 11:49 AM
BLY BLY is offline
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
If I had to pick a favorite, Illume would be it. Her harsh vocals match the mood. Kind of why I love WISYA.
Yes, I do love her harsh vocals on both of these tracks. Say You Will is a great album. Christine said she would have recorded with them at the time. However, I forget if it was Stevie or Lindsey that said if Christine had a hit on the album they couldnít do it on the tour. So they recorded it without her.
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  #62  
Old 04-30-2020, 11:59 AM
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Yes, I do love her harsh vocals on both of these tracks. Say You Will is a great album. Christine said she would have recorded with them at the time. However, I forget if it was Stevie or Lindsey that said if Christine had a hit on the album they couldnít do it on the tour. So they recorded it without her.
I'm pretty sure it was Lindsey who said that.
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  #63  
Old 04-30-2020, 08:29 PM
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I'm pretty sure it was Lindsey who said that.
You are correct it was Lindsey. It was a bad call(IMO) not to let her record with them. She was already on two of the tracks.😎
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  #64  
Old 04-30-2020, 10:04 PM
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You are correct it was Lindsey. It was a bad call(IMO) not to let her record with them. She was already on two of the tracks.😎
I get his point. She made all these poppy, radio friendly songs. Even if they didn't have any new hits, people would want to hear her songs. More so if she had a real presence on the new record.

Even if she's spineless(in regards to saving Lindsey), she is the sound of FM to me. She's the balance that made it all work.
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  #65  
Old 05-01-2020, 12:28 AM
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Illume is probably my favourite track on the album. Dark and dramatic, it captures the mood of the time. Stevie really tears into the vocals for the most part, and the trance-like beat and heavy instrumentals are really effective.
I like "Illume" a lot. I think it's a great Nicks track. Between that and "Say You Will" and "Thrown Down", Nicks had 3 classic tracks just like she's had on every Mac album except TANGO IN THE NIGHT and BEHIND THE MASK.
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  #66  
Old 05-01-2020, 01:20 AM
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It was Stevie that said something about what if Christine had a hit. Maybe Lindsey did, too, when he wasnít too busy talking about burning bridges.
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  #67  
Old 05-01-2020, 01:23 AM
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I like "Illume" a lot. I think it's a great Nicks track. Between that and "Say You Will" and "Thrown Down", Nicks had 3 classic tracks just like she's had on every Mac album except TANGO IN THE NIGHT and BEHIND THE MASK.
She also had as many clunkers as Tango and Mask...

That said, I think her songs on SYW were her best since Mirage.
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  #68  
Old 05-01-2020, 09:52 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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It was Stevie that said something about what if Christine had a hit. Maybe Lindsey did, too, when he wasnít too busy talking about burning bridges.
Honestly, I know it must have been difficult to work with just Stevie without having Christine around as a buffer; but, he could have honored Christine's legacy instead of taking pot shots are her songs, and life choices. She's pretty legendary and her contributions kept the band going in many instances. I was pretty shocked he was acting like that when she left. (I didn't know at the time he really wanted her to stay.)
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  #69  
Old 05-03-2020, 05:23 PM
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Honestly, I know it must have been difficult to work with just Stevie without having Christine around as a buffer; but, he could have honored Christine's legacy instead of taking pot shots are her songs, and life choices. She's pretty legendary and her contributions kept the band going in many instances. I was pretty shocked he was acting like that when she left. (I didn't know at the time he really wanted her to stay.)
I've long felt there was a lot of resentment by all of them (maybe not John, who knows, the man doesn't seem to care either way about anything) toward Christine leaving in 1998. 20+ years on, that all thawed away, but I think especially in the immediate post-Dance years, they were all pissed at her. Think of the money they did NOT make by milking The Dance tour out until 1999. Hell Freezes Over went on for over two years and I'm sure the powers that be and the band itself saw a similar market for their reunion. They could've toured all over the world...gone to Australia for the first time since Tusk, Japan, done a full tour of Europe, and then come back and did a second leg in the US before wrapping up.

So, I think that lost opportunity resentment lasted for awhile and in Lindsey's case, he can say what he wants now, but he was pretty crappy toward Christine during the lead up to SYW. The bridges, the masculine show, all that nonsense. To me, it was a way to sell the band without their biggest hitmaker and also express some of that resentment for leaving in '98.

In my own alternative reality - I see the band either touring as a five piece through 1999, or touring as Buckingham Nicks with Mick Fleetwood and John McVie in celebration of that albums 25th anniversary and rerelease on CD. They could've stretched that gravy train out for awhile and with Chris leaving, they dropped a golden opportunity to release that album to the masses and tour behind it. I imagine a Buckingham Nicks set along with a few select solo songs from each and a solid set of Fleetwood Mac hits would have been incredibly lucrative and popular in the early post-Dance years.

Say You Will was a long 6 years later and I just think things could have been a lot different and more interesting if they did something together within those 6 years or at the very least just let Christine play on the album and not tour.
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  #70  
Old 05-04-2020, 09:59 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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I've long felt there was a lot of resentment by all of them (maybe not John, who knows, the man doesn't seem to care either way about anything) toward Christine leaving in 1998. 20+ years on, that all thawed away, but I think especially in the immediate post-Dance years, they were all pissed at her. Think of the money they did NOT make by milking The Dance tour out until 1999. Hell Freezes Over went on for over two years and I'm sure the powers that be and the band itself saw a similar market for their reunion. They could've toured all over the world...gone to Australia for the first time since Tusk, Japan, done a full tour of Europe, and then come back and did a second leg in the US before wrapping up.

So, I think that lost opportunity resentment lasted for awhile and in Lindsey's case, he can say what he wants now, but he was pretty crappy toward Christine during the lead up to SYW. The bridges, the masculine show, all that nonsense. To me, it was a way to sell the band without their biggest hitmaker and also express some of that resentment for leaving in '98.

In my own alternative reality - I see the band either touring as a five piece through 1999, or touring as Buckingham Nicks with Mick Fleetwood and John McVie in celebration of that albums 25th anniversary and rerelease on CD. They could've stretched that gravy train out for awhile and with Chris leaving, they dropped a golden opportunity to release that album to the masses and tour behind it. I imagine a Buckingham Nicks set along with a few select solo songs from each and a solid set of Fleetwood Mac hits would have been incredibly lucrative and popular in the early post-Dance years.

Say You Will was a long 6 years later and I just think things could have been a lot different and more interesting if they did something together within those 6 years or at the very least just let Christine play on the album and not tour.

Absolutely! Even if she had a hit it would have been such an improvement. You Are or Friend would have really been nice on the radio with Lindsey's sensibilities. Peacekeeper and Say You Will were terrible choices in my opinion.
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  #71  
Old 05-05-2020, 03:20 AM
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Absolutely! Even if she had a hit it would have been such an improvement. You Are or Friend would have really been nice on the radio with Lindsey's sensibilities. Peacekeeper and Say You Will were terrible choices in my opinion.


I like Peacekeeper, a lot...itís one of my favourites from the whole Album.
Itís still played often on UK Radio......(well Ken Bruce show).

But I agree, Christine just 2-3 songs would have been great, more whole as it were.
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  #72  
Old 05-05-2020, 11:45 AM
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Absolutely! Even if she had a hit it would have been such an improvement. You Are or Friend would have really been nice on the radio with Lindsey's sensibilities. Peacekeeper and Say You Will were terrible choices in my opinion.
Friend would have been a much better single than both Peacekeeper and Say You Will. The song Say You Will is so clearly Stevie trying to be Christine that it just doesn't work. I don't know that any Fleetwood Mac song would have been a 'hit' in 2003 (I'm inclined to say no way), but a Lindsey-produced Friend with the three voices would have been the best lead single from a 5-some album. I like Peacekeeper and think it is a solid choice and I wish they would've pimped the hell out of Everybody Finds Out. Thrown Down would have been a solid single as well and clearly was good enough to close out an episode of Friends which was still pulling 20M viewers a week.
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  #73  
Old 05-06-2020, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mitzo View Post
Illume is probably my favourite track on the album. Dark and dramatic, it captures the mood of the time. Stevie really tears into the vocals for the most part, and the trance-like beat and heavy instrumentals are really effective.
Exactly This!! That's what I wanted to say before, the trance-like beat of the song. It gives the atmosphere...
I read the story of the meaning of Illume, but for someone who discovered the song err...9 years later? ( ) it's interesting to give a new sense to the song, even when you hear that and you still think on what happened that 9/11.


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Originally Posted by BLY View Post
[...] Christine said she would have recorded with them at the time. However, I forget if it was Stevie or Lindsey that said if Christine had a hit on the album they couldn’t do it on the tour. So they recorded it without her.
With some pressure from WB, she recorded a few -good- songs for the Time album, without Lindsey and Stevie on board. Why she didn't try to make the same and record her part by her own way?? It was maybe the chance for a last album of the Rumours line-up, but then we would start to make new questions...
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  #74  
Old 05-06-2020, 04:19 PM
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With some pressure from WB, she recorded a few -good- songs for the Time album, without Lindsey and Stevie on board.
She was under contract to make that album. She signed on in 1993, before Billy left, before Bekka and Dave joined, and before Billy returned. She tried to pull out, but the label forced the issue. No way they were going to release a Fleetwood Mac without all three of the Rumours vocalists.

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Why she didn't try to make the same and record her part by her own way??
She offered but they refused since she wouldnít tour.
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  #75  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:49 AM
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IMO, I don't think the entire "Burning her bridges" Christine thing was ever meant as harshly or negatively as it may have been received. Yes, the term "burning your bridges" is very often meant negatively however, it's possible that it was used due to how extremely adamant Christine was about her decision. She was asked repeatedly and repeatedly said no, sold her house, packed up, and moved to another continent. Apparently it got to the point where she told mick "don't even ask me"

And it certainly wasn't just Lindsey speaking to the press about the bands sound being more masculine. Stevie, Mick, John...they all talked about that. Stevie is even quoted as talking pretty highly of Lindsey by "working up the show" into a big rock and roll show.

Additionally, at the time I never got the impression these statements were a slight against Christine or intended to be so. The dynamic of the band indeed changed, which is well documented and talked about in interviews from that time.

Personally, I was way more offended by the Sheryl Crow fiasco. To me, that's worse than Christine not being there. Luckily, it appears Lindsey was able to put the kibosh on that, in addition to the apparent attempt to replace John during his cancer scare...but I digress.
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