Buckingham/Nicks live January 1975

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I think he does now realize what the Brits did for him.

Certainly, in interviews, he honors Mick and the bond that formed between them. I’m thinking of that interview he did with Nile Rogers which was all about how he and Mick had a special musical connection. That he has enlisted Mick many times for his solo projects confirms this.

He knows John and Christine’s worth, too, but has often underplayed what each of them brought to the table. Even when he has spoken of the “magical” connection between him and Christine, he still has not given get her full due for the success of Mirage and Tango. He admires her “commitment to craft” but almost never speaks of her singing voice, never talks about her keyboard skills, and doesn’t credit her attention to studio arrangements. She was “always at the boards” with him when recording albums. He taught her a lot, but she certainly taught him, too.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It read to me like you were saying Stevie thought Buckingham Nicks were better than Fleetwood Mac, whereas I read it as she thought she and Lindsey were better as an entity when they were Buckingham Nicks because they worked together every day. I’m sure Stevie resented people not falling out of their seats sooner, just as I think Mick and Christine felt vindicated for all of their years of recording and touring (John seemed to resent the “overnight success” narrative).

Yes exactly. However you realize there is a very, very fine line in distinguishing what you are saying. Yes she definitely thinks they were better then because they practiced every day. But when you practice every day, does it not make you better? I am not trying to be devil's advocate but its just the reality of the statement. I dont know if you heard the clip before but her tone was a tad angry circling back to what the interviewer commented on that her voice was so unique. She uses the Rolling Stone article to go on the attack about that as if saying ....yes everyone says my voice is unique today and we sell millions of records but my voice was unique then and we worked harder why were we not acknowledged? Its not an attack on Fleetwood Mac. Its her going after the doubters of Buckingham Nicks and the reviews of her first Fleetwood Mac album. She's not saying she is not thankful for being in Fleetwood Mac. She is going after her critics who now are praising her. I think the confusion between us is the context of her statements. Have you heard the interview? She always sounded angry in it. Its where she also says she says she does not want to get old and tour too much. She says rock n roll people in their 40s look like their 50s and 60s and she does not want that to happen to her. Then she says no matter how much you drink or dont drink, its really hard to get through those long Fleetwood Mac tours.
This was also the era of her being the "baby sister" in interviews. She's projecting her insecurity.

And what is she doing? She's on the road as an old woman something she claimed she did not want to happen.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

She was “always at the boards” with him when recording albums. He taught her a lot, but she certainly taught him, too.

If one listens to, In The Meantime, they would hear how much she helped him. I was kind of bored during his 2018 tour. She also gave him a spark and made him better. (like Christine does for everyone).

Edit: I actually hear some Tango elements with her vocals on this album.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

However, I also think the success of The Dance surprised him and I think he realized the only way he was doing arenas was with Fleetwood Mac.

I don't think he realized it since The Dance. Fleetwood Mac filled arenas without him during Tango tour. And rejoining the band was more than certain that they would fill stadiums again, and if it weren't for Christine the tour would have been longer and worldwide. The 90s was the reunions decade, with Eagles and other bands precedents, there was no surprise.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Villavic

I don't think he realized it since The Dance. Fleetwood Mac filled arenas without him during Tango tour. And rejoining the band was more than certain that they would fill stadiums again, and if it weren't for Christine the tour would have been longer and worldwide. The 90s was the reunions decade, with Eagles and other bands precedents, there was no surprise.

The Tango tour was based on Lindsey's album and produced hit singles with videos of him in them. The album was successful and yes the tour was successful. The next album without Lindsey was not successful and the tour did not pack them in like the Tango tour. I saw basically a sold out show in Pittsburgh in 1987 but the Farewell tour in 1990 had about only 2/3 full of the same arena. At the time I felt it being a sad farewell attendance for a supergroup. Stevie's OTSOTM tour one year earlier in the same arena had far more in attendance.

[David]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I always got the impression he resented joining and being in Fleetwood Mac.

There was a brief window of time while they were recording Tusk when he was enthusiastic about the band’s future because he assumed the rest of them were gladly following him into new territory and aligned with his musical aspirations. Mick, particularly, filled him with hope about the kind of band Lindsey wanted Mac to be. But Lindsey wasn’t reading the room accurately. Far from wanting to take Mac down a new path, the others were only sitting back after a commercial blockbuster and letting Lindsey unfold his wings. But they were doing so only half-heartedly — or quarter-heartedly. The two McVies were pretty clear about not loving some of the music they were recording, Nicks didn’t have much authority in the band dynamic, and nutty Fleetwood was only having a little fun with Buckingham for a spell, like kids at recess.

In 1978, Buckingham believed he was in a band of edgy artistic allies. It was a failure of intelligence on his part, and the truth hit him probably even before the tour was over, as the backlash set in (probably from label executives even before the members said anything).

This is why his talk about legacy this past decade is so out of character for him. It’s not that I don’t believe him, but it’s definitely an about-face from his attitude about the band for forty years. He had some bizarro awakening about how good the band really was.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Villavic

I don't think he realized it since The Dance. Fleetwood Mac filled arenas without him during Tango tour. And rejoining the band was more than certain that they would fill stadiums again, and if it weren't for Christine the tour would have been longer and worldwide. The 90s was the reunions decade, with Eagles and other bands precedents, there was no surprise.

I was talking about it from Lindsey’s end. He’d never toured solo prior to 1993 and I think he was shocked by how little demand there was for him as a solo artist. Fast forward to 1997, and he’s playing arenas again in one of the biggest bands in the world. I think that’s something he took for granted.

Fleetwood Mac was fine without him so long as Stevie was in the band. BTM might not have been successful by Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac standards, but it was still a pretty successful album, and they were still an arena band.

Originally Posted by David

This is why his talk about legacy this past decade is so out of character for him. It’s not that I don’t believe him, but it’s definitely an about-face from his attitude about the band for forty years. He had some bizarro awakening about how good the band really was.

Wild theory, but maybe it had something to do with revisiting all of that material for the deluxe edition reissues.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I was talking about it from Lindsey’s end. He’d never toured solo prior to 1993 and I think he was shocked by how little demand there was for him as a solo artist. Fast forward to 1997, and he’s playing arenas again in one of the biggest bands in the world. I think that’s something he took for granted.

Fleetwood Mac was fine without him so long as Stevie was in the band. BTM might not have been successful by Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac standards, but it was still a pretty successful album, and they were still an arena band.


Wild theory, but maybe it had something to do with revisiting all of that material for the deluxe edition reissues.

I think it was the big money machine that made him come back and sort of change his tune about legacy. He was already rich but in the old days of the 70s and 80s, the bands and especially the writers made the most money off album sales. Tours were supplemental for the mega groups. Smaller bands who did not sell as many albums relied more on touring. However the late 90s and the cash grab tours changed all that. Suddenly one tour could gross more money than all of their touring combined. When there is that kind of money on the table, its really hard to resist. I think as Lindsey got older he also got more grounded. In 1982 he told Cream magazine that he did not want to tour anymore once he turned 40.
In the 70s' 80's you could see a concert for $15.00 or less almost what an album would cost. Today the cheapest tickets are well over $200 with many closer seats selling for thousands. Tours can gross over 1 million for one night.
Money changes everything.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Fleetwood Mac was fine without him so long as Stevie was in the band. BTM might not have been successful by Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac standards, but it was still a pretty successful album, and they were still an arena band.

I agree. The Cleveland crowd at the BTM tour was full house and ravenous for them. I remember thinking, wow they actually really gel "as a band" and not some individuals stroking their own egos. Stevie was sedated of course.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I agree. The Cleveland crowd at the BTM tour was full house and ravenous for them. I remember thinking, wow they actually really gel "as a band" and not some individuals stroking their own egos. Stevie was sedated of course.

I saw them at the Capital Music Center in Grove City and it was packed. It was a great show, the highlight being “Stop Messin’ Round” for me.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I saw them at the Capital Music Center in Grove City and it was packed. It was a great show, the highlight being “Stop Messin’ Round” for me.

I still can't believe they performed: Don't Me Let Me Down Again. I never knew they broke this out. It's so damn good!! Billy was made for this song. Rick rips through it. Christine and John come thru loud and clear. Stevie nails it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYAa2RT0x3I

It's better than the B/N live version that's for sure. Just incredible.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I still can't believe they performed: Don't Me Let Me Down Again. I never knew they broke this out. It's so damn good!! Billy was made for this song. Rick rips through it. Christine and John come thru loud and clear. Stevie nails it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYAa2RT0x3I

It's better than the B/N live version that's for sure. Just incredible.

I preferred the Tango setlist with that song. I was lucky to see both Rhiannon and Gypsy before they were dropped. Gypsy was really good. But BTM re-introduced Landslide which was groundbreaking. Funny to think that today. IMHO the band sounded better in 1990 esp with new original music with those members. Opening with In The Back Of My Mind was genius.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I preferred the Tango setlist with that song. I was lucky to see both Rhiannon and Gypsy before they were dropped. Gypsy was really good. But BTM re-introduced Landslide which was groundbreaking. Funny to think that today. IMHO the band sounded better in 1990 esp with new original music with those members. Opening with In The Back Of My Mind was genius.

The Tango Show was good. But, the BTM show was on fire.

[anusha]

I'm super impressed with some of the songs on this bootleg -- Heartbreaker is really so good. It's a shame it never found a home on any of the subsequent FM/LB releases. And you can see how Frozen Love really sticks out as a fully realized song. But you do see how BN might never have found an audience without the addition of Mick, John and Christine -- the BN songs don't always have a finished sound to them, especially when played live. FM brought a rounder sound to BN, and also the chemistry they had as a group musically was an X factor that you couldn't get from either entity separately. The two forces uniting really was a Reese's peanut butter cup moment.

As for Stevie saying BN was better rehearsed than FM -- I'm sure they were. It's literally all they did. But in 1984, she was riding a huge wave of solo success and was not keen on FM at all, so she was also trying to say that FM weren't all that -- if she hadn't hit rock bottom during RAL, maybe she would have just gone all in on a solo career at some point. TITN being a big success was a big incentive to stick around (a cycle that would repeat with the success of The Dance and relatively poor reception of Street Angel).

Lindsey clearly has a complex about not feeling appropriately recognized for his contributions to the band, and it has manifested itself as him being less vocal about the contributions the other members of FM made to the band's success. It's not right, but it's a character flaw that has been apparent for a long time, and it's not likely to change. Not when Stevie is out there co-headlining auditoriums and having the market power to boot him from FM. Their twisted dynamic has done neither of them favors as human beings. I do think LB has done more work (therapy?) and been forced to deal with more of the real world (family/marriage), so is not cray-delulu, but neither of them is a role model for kindness or humility.

[David]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I saw them at the Capital Music Center in Grove City and it was packed. It was a great show, the highlight being “Stop Messin’ Round” for me.

I got to see them sing “When the Sun Goes Down” with Chris on accordion and see Stevie swish around in a short-short skirt. This was during the June leg, up in Northern CA. But I was bored, bored, bored. This was my Alban Berg phase.