Rewatching Destiny's Rules...

[Tusky]

And it feels like the seeds of Lindsey's 2018 ousting were planted when he threatened to save some of the more experimental stuff for his solo album if they didn't release a double Say You Will as first planned. Mick looks shell shocked and it feels like there's a thread to the 2018 official reason to firing him?

[Macfan4life]

That kind of stuff always went on. Stevie threatened to leave the band during the recording of Rumours if the shacking up line was kept and threatened to leave the band if the album was called Tusk.
Chris had just left the band so Stevie would not have the power to fire Lindsey otherwise it would have been a Stevie solo tour with Mick and John as her backup musicians. Having said that, Stevie was miserable during the SYW process and she did not look happy on that tour. But she was a trooper and kept the band going even years later for Unleashed and the EP. When Chris joined, Stevie was no longer unhappy. She was happy. But now she was jealous that Chris and Lindsey went on without her. She's a trooper when unhappy but dont dare make her jealous. Cats are the same way. Their fangs come out when another cat shows up.

I watched it again about 2 years ago and its weird because SYW does not seem that long ago but OMG the cars are so old, the cell phones are so old and they look so young. It was so long ago! I really felt for Lindsey during that process. He sort of gets his way in the end and there is a comment from Mick "if this album only sells 500k Lindsey is going to be really depressed because he will be proved wrong" or something like that. Sure enough the album only sold about 500K. But just imagine that today, an album selling 500k copies would be considered a huge success.

[Tusky]

It's funny you can see Stevie getting more and more removed from the process and Lindsey, while I understand, should have conceded a bit more. When he talks about the four managers and two being against it being a double, I thought 'Well Christine would have been the casting vote!'. At the start they talk about how it's better Christine not being there because she would have been miserable but they end up really miserable! At that time I think she would have been a very helpful emotional stabalising force

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

That kind of stuff always went on. Stevie threatened to leave the band during the recording of Rumours if the shacking up line was kept and threatened to leave the band if the album was called Tusk.
Chris had just left the band so Stevie would not have the power to fire Lindsey otherwise it would have been a Stevie solo tour with Mick and John as her backup musicians. Having said that, Stevie was miserable during the SYW process and she did not look happy on that tour. But she was a trooper and kept the band going even years later for Unleashed and the EP. When Chris joined, Stevie was no longer unhappy. She was happy. But now she was jealous that Chris and Lindsey went on without her. She's a trooper when unhappy but dont dare make her jealous. Cats are the same way. Their fangs come out when another cat shows up.

I watched it again about 2 years ago and its weird because SYW does not seem that long ago but OMG the cars are so old, the cell phones are so old and they look so young. It was so long ago! I really felt for Lindsey during that process. He sort of gets his way in the end and there is a comment from Mick "if this album only sells 500k Lindsey is going to be really depressed because he will be proved wrong" or something like that. Sure enough the album only sold about 500K. But just imagine that today, an album selling 500k copies would be considered a huge success.

Stevie also threatened to quit before the 2013 Tour when she had The Talk with Lindsey at his house. She told MOJO Magazine that she told him she had other people who were nice to her that she could work with. I'm not sure what "nice" means. Was she "nice" to him?

I still don't know what songs would have made SYW a double album. Long Road Out of Eden by Eagles was a double with 20 songs. SYW was 18 songs. So would Not Make Believe, Love Minus Zero/No Limit, and I Am Waiting have made it a double album?

Maybe Stevie offered Annabel Lee, Call On Me for Magic, My Heart, and Space Needle but we were never told she did?

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by Tusky

And it feels like the seeds of Lindsey's 2018 ousting were planted when he threatened to save some of the more experimental stuff for his solo album if they didn't release a double Say You Will as first planned. Mick looks shell shocked and it feels like there's a thread to the 2018 official reason to firing him?

A book I read 2 years ago about infighting among famous bands pretty much said just what you wrote, Tusky- that the recording of Say You Will planted the seeds for dissension for John, Mick, Stevie, and Lindsey. The author mentioned a couple of other things that happened before they fired Lindsey, but the gist was Lindsey should have seen it coming and that the big surprise was that he was surprised. Note he didn’t say the firing was justified, just that Lindsey missed some obvious signs they were unhappy, to various degrees.

[Macfan4life]

Lindsey has always said many times he resented having to craft Stevie's songs. That's not new and happened every album. He called it "bittersweet." Stevie in return resented that resentment. You see clear signs of this on the SYW project. However with Chris gone, it changed the dynamic. There was no buffer. The tension was more profound than ever. No doubt Stevie had lingering issues over that album.
Looking back, it would have been better for Stevie to leave the band after SYW. It would have let steam off. When Chris came back perhaps she would have been more eager to get into a studio again. Even if you take Stevie's side, its odd that she "suffered" all those years and went out of her way to keep Fleetwood Mac intact. Yet when the swansong came around, she bucked and would not let their legacy play out. Like I said earlier, she handled being unhappy but she could not handle the jealousy. All you need to know is how they could not call the album a Fleetwood Mac project. They knew they were walking on eggshells. The band could not have both things: a new album and final tour. With the rest of the band going forward with a new album prevented the entire band from doing one last tour. They gambled and lost. We celebrate the Buck/Vie album but the vice was the replacement tour.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Lindsey has always said many times he resented having to craft Stevie's songs. That's not new and happened every album. He called it "bittersweet." Stevie in return resented that resentment. You see clear signs of this on the SYW project. However with Chris gone, it changed the dynamic. There was no buffer. The tension was more profound than ever. No doubt Stevie had lingering issues over that album.
Looking back, it would have been better for Stevie to leave the band after SYW. It would have let steam off. When Chris came back perhaps she would have been more eager to get into a studio again. Even if you take Stevie's side, its odd that she "suffered" all those years and went out of her way to keep Fleetwood Mac intact. Yet when the swansong came around, she bucked and would not let their legacy play out. Like I said earlier, she handled being unhappy but she could not handle the jealousy. All you need to know is how they could not call the album a Fleetwood Mac project. They knew they were walking on eggshells. The band could not have both things: a new album and final tour. With the rest of the band going forward with a new album prevented the entire band from doing one last tour. They gambled and lost. We celebrate the Buck/Vie album but the vice was the replacement tour.

Stevie managed to dictate the cardinal rule of Fleetwood Mac between 2009-2013 which was - we only tour every 3 years and nothing is billed as a Fleetwood Mac project unless I'm involved. There would also be no back-to-back projects. Recording following a tour etc.

Christine came back and that changed completely. BuckVie came out, literally the entire band was on it with the lone exception being Stevie. It didn't go unnoticed by the press.

I still can't believe how selfish her behavior was towards Christine and how it would impact her time reunited with the band. The cold shoulder comments she gave about the project before it was even released...unbelievable. Going through the process of watching BuckVie come to fruition and observing Stevie's behavior during that time really made me realize who she really was.

[BigAl84]

I don't know if Lindsey resented the actual task for crafting Stevie's songs or was it more that he resented the blowback that came with it. He was expected to do it, but that person he was helping was resentful of his involvement at the same time. It was a lot of work for him that never paid off in terms of improving some kind of working relationship with Stevie.

[The Chain]

Originally Posted by bwboy

A book I read 2 years ago about infighting among famous bands pretty much said just what you wrote, Tusky- that the recording of Say You Will planted the seeds for dissension for John, Mick, Stevie, and Lindsey. The author mentioned a couple of other things that happened before they fired Lindsey, but the gist was Lindsey should have seen it coming and that the big surprise was that he was surprised. Note he didn’t say the firing was justified, just that Lindsey missed some obvious signs they were unhappy, to various degrees.

What book was it?

[Villavic]

If SYW planted the the seeds of Lindsey's 2018 ousting, it took 15 years to germinate. My first thoughts would be How inefficient seeds! But it's Fleetwood Mac anyway. We could say Tusk would be the seeds for the dissension of the 5 guys. And we can find seeds in Rumours, Tango, etc. It's the same old story to me. Only this time they are too old, Christine is gone, so it's over.

[Tusky]

It's also sad in the documentary when Stevie tells Mick she doesn't feel butterflies when she hear some of the songs of her Lindsey has worked on. Which is a million miles away what she'd said in the past, speaking very fondly of the work he did on her songs. Sonically they weren't in tune anymore?

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by The Chain

What book was it?

I don’t have it anymore, but I believe it was called You Started It. It had stories about FM, the Supremes, etc and was a good read!

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Stevie managed to dictate the cardinal rule of Fleetwood Mac between 2009-2013 which was - we only tour every 3 years and nothing is billed as a Fleetwood Mac project unless I'm involved. There would also be no back-to-back projects. Recording following a tour etc.

Christine came back and that changed completely. BuckVie came out, literally the entire band was on it with the lone exception being Stevie. It didn't go unnoticed by the press.

I still can't believe how selfish her behavior was towards Christine and how it would impact her time reunited with the band. The cold shoulder comments she gave about the project before it was even released...unbelievable. Going through the process of watching BuckVie come to fruition and observing Stevie's behavior during that time really made me realize who she really was.

It was selfish of her not wanting to record with Chris.
They should have driven to her house and left a copy of Buck/Vie against her front door.
"see you on the road, all our love, Lindsey and Chris"

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

It was selfish of her not wanting to record with Chris.
They should have driven to her house and left a copy of Buck/Vie against her front door.
"see you on the road, all our love, Lindsey and Chris"

Unfortunately, she took all of Mick's power and bought him with her own star power. Her mgmt is not dumb when it comes to taking control.

...and Stevie selfish?? How are you!

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Unfortunately, she took all of Mick's power and bought him with her own star power. Her mgmt is not dumb when it comes to taking control.

...and Stevie selfish?? How are you!

I'm great and you?