Just Skimmed Through STORMS

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Boots

Exactly! And that you for bringing that up. I meant to flesh that out in my post. If Stevie was so protective of her relationship with Lindsey, then why the hell is she painted as this uncaring, numb person during a traumatic moment? I know that it's likely that Stevie and Lindsey played up their breakup, but whether they did or not isn't the point here. The point is - their breakup was pretty fierce. It resonated between them for years. I can't accept that Stevie, no matter how pissed she was with him, wouldn't show a modicum of concern. That she was so far removed from the trauma - that Mick, John, Chris and the rest of the entourage were hanging by the door concerned (for selfish reasons perhaps, but they were still there), that the only time she gave a flying fig was when she told Carol about how her dog was spazzing and she didn't know what to do? That's all? I'm not saying Stevie is a saint. I know there was some bad blood between her and Lindsey, but I feel that something was missing here. Something doesn't add up. Or perhaps Stevie was so high at the time that she really floated in another world. Or perhaps Carol wasn't privy to a few behind the scenes moments when Stevie was indeed concerned about Lindsey and came by - while Carol was running around in her bare feet looking for a pharmacist all over Washington DC.

Indeed. You can clearly hear Stevie's concern about Lindsey on Mick's limo tapes. She is talking about his epilepsy and seems to fully understand what is wrong with him and what the treatment is. You can hear the concern in her voice....Mick and Chris aren't paying her any mind but Stevie is obviously worried about LB's current condition. CA doesn't include any talk of Stevie's concern in her "book" but rather chooses to tell the dog story. (something that probably DID happen when Stevie was coked up and drinking) Further, you can see Stevie rub LB's back on one of the Rumours bootlegs..the same show where she says "Lindsey is stttrrroooonggg".
Personally I think huge chunks of facts have been left out of the book on purpose.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Indeed. You can clearly hear Stevie's concern about Lindsey on Mick's limo tapes.

What are Mick's limo tapes and how can I view/hear them?

[Sahara]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Not the same and you know it. CA writing a trashy novel is not the same as SN writing lyrics. Stevie's lyrics are usually pretty vague and can be interpreted in many different ways. Stevie has always shown alot of loyaty when it comes to divulging her bandmates secrets. CA sharing personal conversations and details about LB, his family, and his demons is very unloyal. For Cripes sakes, she even had to bring up Lindsey's brother and tell the world he has a prosthetic leg...something LB has never felt it necessary to share with his fan base. Interesting read but I don't have to like her motivations either.

Absolutely; as I've said before, the argument that LB writes about her in his songs and thus makes money out of badmouthing her isn't a valid argument, because they're, as you say, vague and open to many interpreatations.

[strandinthewind]

He is not that kind to her in the songs and he openly discussed and some say slammed her in the BTM episode

But, and in any event, all parties here are airing their laundry in public and not just in songs. LB and La Nicks always use their "former relationship" and the drugs to sell their records. Hell, La Nicks is even rehashing hot pictures of herself from the latter part of that era to sell her current rehash

In the end, Carl Ann was there and it is her story to sell, just like La Nicks and LB use the goings on in that era to sell their current music.

[carol7lynn]

I respectfully disagree. CAH may have been there but she was not in the band. So what she has to say is just "second hand news!"

Her book is not a tell-all but a spiteful tell-on-you. There is a difference between artistic expression in a song-writers musing and mud-slinging for profit.

CarolC

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by carol7lynn

. . . There is a difference between artistic expression in a song-writers musing and mud-slinging for profit . . . .

That is a subjective test at best.

Again, in the end, she is telling her story and it is her story to tell.

I get that I may not agree with her, but I cannot and will not fault her for telling it, esp. when La Nicks and LB talk about the hey day every chance they get (and in that they sling some mud) and Carol Ann has been discussed in those talks. She is allowed to respond

I think that people in general cannot stand that someone is seen as going against LB and La Nicks; like that is some form of sacrilege.

Anyway, to each their own

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by carol7lynn

I respectfully disagree. CAH may have been there but she was not in the band. So what she has to say is just "second hand news!"

Her book is not a tell-all but a spiteful tell-on-you. There is a difference between artistic expression in a song-writers musing and mud-slinging for profit.

CarolC

Absolutely!


BTW, Strand...where did LB "slam" Stevie in his BTM? He said her spectre disabled several long term relationships he had. No slam there, just honesty. He focused on her quite a bit, interviewed her, gave them never before seen Fritz footage, used old personal photos of her.....I thought their relationship was presented honestly and sweetly. A few of his songs are spiteful, but so are Stevie's. There are many, many more lyrics that reflect deep longing and love. Even GYOW reflects that longing. "baby I will give you my world"....

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Kelly

. . . BTW, Strand...where did LB "slam" Stevie in his BTM? He said her spectre disabled several long term relationships he had. No slam there, just honesty. He focused on her quite a bit, interviewed her, gave them never before seen Fritz footage, used old personal photos of her.....I thought their relationship was presented honestly and sweetly. A few of his songs are spiteful, but so are Stevie's. There are many, many more lyrics that reflect deep longing and love. Even GYOW reflects that longing. "baby I will give you my world"....

I think some people took that BTM as a slam on Carol Ann. Ditto for La Nicks - but I did not.

But, I am mostly talking about LB's songs allegedly about Carol Ann. But, I think you think LB never wrote a song about Carol Ann, so that point is moot on you

My other point is LB and La Nicks, esp., love to talk about the drug days and the craziness that went on. So, why should Carol Ann be prohibited from doing the same? She was there after all. And, LB has directly referenced her in his BTM.

Is Carol Ann mudslinging? I think so. But, I recorgnize it is her right to do so because it is the story of her life at that time.

On edit - LB and La Nicks are very careful to promote their loved starved relationship -- it plays well to the masses. So, they are not really going to slam each other too much in public. Rather, they ficticiously play up the sentiment on stage and the crowd eats it up.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

Stevie began to weep, clutching the sheer white chiffon with the delicacy of her fingers, "oh no Lindsey...not her! We had a love that was young and innocent brought together through a song."

In the past, being privy to this spectacle would have been something of a high point in my calendar, but it only weighed heavy on my mind. I thought that perhaps if I was here, I might chance to hear them.

Over the months I had built up a rich story of him and her in my mind. He with the nimble fingers, bright eyes and wayward smile. Her melancholy from too long trapped behind those walls. I imagined her to be his serving maid, perhaps working to please him and he singing at sundown to help her rest.

Lindsey closed his eyes, hoping that I might be nearby to hear him. His sensitive ears picked up the sound of movement, and as the last note faded from her lips, he opened his eyes and glanced towards me. My dress shimmering in the torchlight.

"Carol, I thank you for this night" as he tossed a NIN guitar pick towards me.

I tried to pluck from the air as it spun three now four times. My heart pounded against my ribs. Bowing, Stevie retreated into the gathering crowd, finding some safe shadow from which she might once again look up upon Lindsey.

"So this is love?" Stevie thought, as she vanished back into the darkness of the doorway. I had not imagined that it would strike her so cruelly, that the thought of me would inspire so much pain.

The dead could not be more distant than this lady to him. The pick was warm from his fingers, and I pressed it to my lips for a second. No, it was 30 seconds of that I am sure.

oh brother lol

[Michelle Daya]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

He is not that kind to her in the songs and he openly discussed and some say slammed her in the BTM episode

But, and in any event, all parties here are airing their laundry in public and not just in songs. LB and La Nicks always use their "former relationship" and the drugs to sell their records. Hell, La Nicks is even rehashing hot pictures of herself from the latter part of that era to sell her current rehash

In the end, Carl Ann was there and it is her story to sell, just like La Nicks and LB use the goings on in that era to sell their current music.

could not agree more

[TrueFaith77]

I'm sorry I didn't check out this strand sooner! I've been dying to talk to someone about this book (I even just bought a copy for my mom so we can talk about it).

Anyway... I'm not sure where to begin except to say that I actually really like the book. It's clearly from one, limited, perhaps biased, perspective, so it doesn't fully satiate (I, took, wish Stevie, Lindsey, etc. would write their memoirs. . .but one might say that they have). However, there is insight here (her stories about the transformation of Lindsey's musical and stage persona) and intriguing archetypal references (I think John Boorman should make a movie of this book). And, yes, there's plenty of "I get credit for Lindsey shaving his beard" stuff, which I just take as silly, and doesn't that kind of thing kinda come with the rocknroll territory (I mean: there's a reason she and Lindsey got along). Anyway... I haven't yet finished the book, but I'm super glad I got it.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think some people took that BTM as a slam on Carol Ann. Ditto for La Nicks - but I did not.

But, I am mostly talking about LB's songs allegedly about Carol Ann. But, I think you think LB never wrote a song about Carol Ann, so that point is moot on you

My other point is LB and La Nicks, esp., love to talk about the drug days and the craziness that went on. So, why should Carol Ann be prohibited from doing the same? She was there after all. And, LB has directly referenced her in his BTM.

Is Carol Ann mudslinging? I think so. But, I recorgnize it is her right to do so because it is the story of her life at that time.

On edit - LB and La Nicks are very careful to promote their loved starved relationship -- it plays well to the masses. So, they are not really going to slam each other too much in public. Rather, they ficticiously play up the sentiment on stage and the crowd eats it up.

Wha?? Where did I say LB never wrote a song about CA? I said GI wasn't ONLY about CA. There is a "you" and a "she" in that song...obviously two woman. I think there are songs about CA...Caroline, I Must Go, Goodbye Angel, etc. I think there are songs about Cheri as well. I do not think Tango in the Night is about CA though because he had moved on to someone else at that point. NGBA is about Windy Sails AND Stevie. I am not sure what your point was about me not thinking any songs are about CA, cause I never said that.

Comparing what SnL do onstage and off to play up their relationship is not even remotely the same. CA is an old, scorned ex girlfriend. Whether SnL ficticiously play up things or not, is not the point......they are not writing tell all books about each other just to make a buck. CA did just that..she is not an artist who is expressing herself through lyrics or music.

[Boots]

Apologies FM LEDGIES! This turned into a long one....abandon ship if you wish...

I'm getting a bit deeper into the book. It's fascinating and tedious all at the same time. However, I'm not going to judge Carol over her personal experience with Lindsey and the band. After all, she was there. I wasn't. But I take issue with her own portrayal of herself back then. I don't see her as a young woman who had a real plan to be a sound mixer or produer. I see her as a young woman who wanted to go to Hollywood and be part of the glamour. And frankly, who wouldn't want that? Yet, her intentions were not true. If she really wanted to be a sound mixer, she would have taken the job with Pink Floyd's producer to advance her career. She didn't, and we're supposed to feel sorry for what unfolded in the years to come. You want to read about a real sound mixer who wasn't dazzled by the lights of glamour? Read "Here, There and Everywhere", by Geoff Emerick - sound engineer to The Beatles. He had a definitive work ethic. This girl just wanted to hitch her wagon to a star. Hells, that's what her writing is telling me.

And there's no doubt that Lindsey loved her and needed her to be with him at all times. However - I think she pats herself way too much on the back for helping him with songs that he wrote for Tusk. Going on about being his muse, and working out emotional support that would lend itself to the type of songs he'd create, is a bit much. In fact, it makes ther reader (me) lose any sympathy for her.

While reading this book, I get this sense that Carol, who must be in her 50's by now, is tapping into memories of a 20-something girl, who in my opinion was pretty, very lucky and vacuous. The years have not provided a shadow of wisdom or humility in the telling of this story. Her sense of grandeur regarding her place and influence on the Fleetwood Mac family is disturbing because many rock biographers never mention her. She is really just a footnote in the grand scheme of this band, and all her stories and feelings don't really prove that wrong.

Another negative element in this book, is her way of telling a story. Not all the flowery, pretty prose can mold a biography into place. She would have done herself a service in telling us the story, and let US figure things out for ourselves - rather than her write paragraph after heavy paragraph, filled with "Angels" and "Sweeties" and every detailed minutae of a silly conversation.

Also, her relationship with Stevie and how she protrays it is manipulating to the reader. She doesn't write the situations with enough information to let the reader (who plunked down some dough for this book) figure out Stevie or anyone else in this FM kingdom. I can't believe an editor let her get away with this kind of storytelling. One passage that irked me last night as I was flipping through the book: She mentions an incident that occured with Stevie in, I think New Zealand. There is some back story to this, which I won't get into. However, the main vibe of it was - Stevie took Carol aside to give her some advice on how to handle LB when he's in a violent mood. Carol never really fleshes out what Stevie said to her. Instead, she provides a very biased view of the conversation, where we do not have the slightest clue as to what Stevie said, but we are left feeling that Nicks was being controlling and weird to her. And - apparently, there was a film crew right there filming their exchange - to which Carol was totally unaware! (HELLO? It's a camera - you know -that thing with a lense?)

Carol makes it look as if Stevie lured her into this sitaution where she can look like a loving, forgiving goddess in front of cameras, while Carol is the wide eyed poor soul. Again - Stevie is no saint - but Harris' writing is very one dimensional. I don't know who is right or wrong here - I only know I'm being manipulated in siding with a glorified groupie, who's remembrance of incidents from 25 years ago are tainted with the view of a young, not very bright, woman.

There is a chapter in the book where she hangs out with Patti Boyd Clapton, a very well respected rock and roll wife. Patti is a rock queen because of what she's been through, how she handles her privacy and what she DOESN'T say. I think Carol should take a lesson from Patti - by keeping the stories and the gory details close to your vest like Jackie O.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Wha?? Where did I say LB never wrote a song about CA? I said GI wasn't ONLY about CA. There is a "you" and a "she" in that song...obviously two woman. I think there are songs about CA...Caroline, I Must Go, Goodbye Angel, etc. I think there are songs about Cheri as well. I do not think Tango in the Night is about CA though because he had moved on to someone else at that point. NGBA is about Windy Sails AND Stevie. I am not sure what your point was about me not thinking any songs are about CA, cause I never said that.

My mistake

Originally Posted by Kelly

Comparing what SnL do onstage and off to play up their relationship is not even remotely the same. CA is an old, scorned ex girlfriend. Whether SnL ficticiously play up things or not, is not the point......they are not writing tell all books about each other just to make a buck. CA did just that..she is not an artist who is expressing herself through lyrics or music.

No, it is the same - apparently to me and many others because they are not doing it just through the music. They are perpetuating it (the romance, the hey day, etc. ) during interviews and rote movements onstage to make a buck and to sell what is not really that saleable anymore without it - and they know it. So, I say if they can comment in that genre on that era and all that went on, so can Carol Ann, no matter how wrong her memory may be. After all, she was there and it is her story to tell as well. I mean certainly all of FM has misremembered more than one detail and certainly they all have said things out of spite born in scorn But, to each their own.

Interestingly, if Carol Ann had praised La Nicks and LB - even if untrue - I do not think we would be having this conversation.

I get the sense you just hate her and she can do nothing right. But and again, to each their own

[Tango]

A couple people have compared/contrasted the women that Lindsey has been with over the years. That exquisite femininity, etc. But Stevie was also a fire brand, the one that could light up the room, the one that people noticed (and still do) when she enters a room. I think Carol Ann was incredibly passive, sweet and, despite having been in a relationship before, having a child, etc, still with a touch of innocence about her insomuch as the drug culture was at that time. I don't think she was stupid, though. She knew Lindsey was a rock star and quite well off. By the end of her almost 8 year relationship, as she points out, she could have made off well financially. But she didn't. That's to her credit. She also seems to have become more aware of her needs to have boundaries. She started getting some professional help. She finally realized it "wasn't her fault" when she was being physically and emotionally abused and it wasn't "okay." When she entered the relationship with Lindsey she had no strength, in my opinion, no sense of self worth. She was, really, quite a pathetic human being. She was defective. Lindsey and Carol didn't buy a cat together. He presented her with one, as one would do with a child on Christmas or something.

I think of the lyrics of one of Stevie's songs: what you did not need was a woman who was stronger. You needed someone to depend on you. I could not be her baby. I did not want to. My first mistake was to smile at you.

With Carol Ann, Lindsey thought he was getting what he wanted. A dependent. Someone very pretty, sweet, loving, obedient- someone that would love him unconditionally and be there just for him. He didn't want someone that ruled her life like a bird in flight, so to speak. I don't know a lot about what Lindsey's experiences were with girls when he was little. He didn't have sisters. He may have thought they were sugar and spice, etc. He may have been raised to believe "men, men, men men men" are the rulers of the home and women were there to help them. I think having been around some women, having done some growing, having had his own therapy, Lindsey's also changed.

He has always been the musical genious for Fleetwood Mac. But I believe he's changed, he's grown up, and he's able to see a woman as a partner now. And I think he's also found the adoring dependent females he's always been looking for. And when I look at this picture that Nico kindly posted, I think he realizes how lucky he is:



He's found that little dependent girl (twice over!) that will always look up to him, always listen to him, be sweet, loving, obedient . . . well, until they reach their teens. And at that time he won't want them to be passive, dependent, unworldly. He would never allow anyone to raise a hand to them. He'll want them strong.