Interesting numbers...

[Hawkeye]

I wrote that long reoply and stupidly ended up putting it in the wrong topic i want this in the talent thread

[bjk3047]

Bella Figura: I believe that's the most level headed thing I've read on the pro-Stevie side in the past couple weeks. Comments like that make me respect your position on the issue, honestly.
Two additions I'd like to make though. 1. I don't think some of us are making comments meant for others to take as "negative", they're just comments meant to place a different amount of value on Stevie in this case. We just think contributions can be made, but they can only go so far compared to others'. I must say, I LIKE her contributions for the most part. 2. We're not in any way attempting to keep you from enjoying Stevie, we're just giving our opinions of her and her music.
Thank you very much for the post again, I can much more easily accept and respect your opinion without some of the bias and defensiveness I've seen in other posts.
Hawkeye: You know, you can delete a post by clicking on edit and checking the box for delete if you wish. Just an undo button of sorts
-Brian

[Hawkeye]

i know that, but i don't want to re-type the post. So i'll leave it here. now thqt i look at it, it can belon here too i guess.

[AliP]

The thing that gets me down when I read stuff like this (negative posts) is I feel like I'm one of the few that truly appreciates FM (Rumours) lineup as a whole group. Sure I have my favorite members etc. but I can't say that any one member takes precedence over the other or is better etc. I truly appreciate each member for the contributions they have made. I don't "worship" any member and I see that each one has their faults and is not perfect. I don't feel like I need to get defensive when somebody expresses an opinion or uses constructive criticism. Most importantly, I don't feel the need to put down one member to build another member up. Really, thou how many out there can truly say that they *like* each member of the group and above anything would love to see a "Fleetwood Mac" concert rather than a "Stevie solo concert" or a "Lindsey solo concert". I, for one, can say I have been a Fleetwood Mac fan first and always will be.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by AliP
The thing that gets me down when I read stuff like this (negative posts) is I feel like I'm one of the few that truly appreciates FM (Rumours) lineup as a whole group

AAHHHHH!!!! Therein the rub. When the band was acting like a band, they could truly be appreciated as a group. Starting with Tusk, they were going their own ways separately, even though they managed to pull it together for what in my opinion IS the Fleetwood Mac masterpiece. Then Stevie went solo ("Never gonna make it, baby" Could Lindsey have been more wrong?) and she started contributing crappy songs to Fleetwood Mac. Even though Gypsy is a great song, everything else that she gave Fleetwood Mac after that was crap. Yet her blind-faith friends were still eating it up. Sorry, the quality is simply not there.

Meanwhile, Lindsey was getting better.

Now, I'm told TISL has great stuff. It doesn't appeal to me, but fine, that's a matter of opinion. Now let's see what she gives the band this time. More crappy leftovers? This is my issue. I do not want another Fleetwood Mac album if it's going to be a bunch of great songs from Lindsey peppered with crappy leftovers from Stevie.

[David]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Yet Lindsey is totally underrated. He hardly, or rarely, shows up on "best guitarist" lists and historically he has gotten very little of the band's spotlight. In my estimation, he only really started getting his due when the Dance came out.

As far as the public is concerned, maybe that's true. But LB has almost always been praised in the rock press, which is usually where the really interesting opinions are found. Particularly in 1979, he was considered a breath of fresh air (by the way, how stale that cliche has become). During their commercial heyday, when they were still a fascinating & vital presence on the pop-rock scene, Fleetwood Mac were critics' pets, & LB typically received the lion's share of credit -- whether it was the band's arrangements & production in the studio or its live gigs. His confidence grew onstage over the years from the time he joined the band, & by the time the whole "Tusk" dunciad rolled around, he was, as a couple of rock reviewers in the L.A. Times noted, dominating the band's live shows as the kinetic center. I was lucky enough to see the band play a bunch of times in those days, & he really was the dominant force, whether he was driving the band into hard-rock terrain instrumentally or forcing the others to continually take chances in their appeal. He loosened up the others considerably, so that his bandmates' songs, like "Angel" or "Over & Over," became dazzling, sexy displays of on-the-fringe prowess.

[Johnny Stew]

Well, most likely this is the last post I will make on the subject, since this horse is long dead, and now very well beaten.

I read Bella Figura's post, and I think she perfectly struck the nail on the head.
Many of Stevie's fan take these debates to heart, because there always seems to be an air of snobbery throughout the proceedings.
The implication always being that Stevie Nicks fans are mindless sheep, worshiping at an altar somewhere, giving their souls up to some chick rock 'n roll star, and just waiting for the day when they can put on their platform boots and the Halle-Bopp comet will come take them away.

I'm well aware of Stevie's limitations as a musician and a singer, but that doesn't tarnish my enjoyment of her music.
I'm also aware that not every song she writes is a masterpiece, but that doesn't stop me from being entertained or moved or inspired by them.
Lindsey and Christine have written some pretty big stinkers as well.

Lindsey was indeed the chief architect of the Fleetwood Mac "sound," but his vision wasn't always spot on. He's produced some songs that can be deemed quite mediocre, to say the least.
Christine has written the majority of Fleetwood Mac's hit singles, but at their core, most of them have no more depth than "silly love songs."
But that doesn't stop me from being entertained by their music, nor does it sour my opinion of their contributions to the band.

It's obvious that I'm a Stevie fan... I am also a major Lindsey fan, and a major Christine fan... but most of all, i'm a FLEETWOOD MAC fan.
I subscribe to the theory that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

You put the three of them together, and their styles compliment each other beautifully. The amount of Fleetwood Mac gems far outweighs the clunkers. And even their lesser songs are usually more enjoyable than other band's biggest accomplishments.

Yes, Stevie "only" writes and sings, but I don't see why that implies she is the least important member of the band.
Nor do I see why finding enjoyment in each one of her songs implies that someone is blind to her limitations.

Maybe this is a bad analogy, but when you love something or someone, it doesn't mean that you're blind to their faults... it's merely that their faults are a part of them, and therefore you can love those as well.

And I think that's where these arguments come in: There are people who love the band, warts and all, and find it engaging to discuss all aspects of their music and personalities, including the negatives.... And there are other people here who also love the band, and are cognizant of the negatives, but prefer to focus on the postives.
The "All Aspects" people can't understand why the other faction appears to be so blindly loyal... while the "Focus On The Positive" folks can't understand why the others seem to only discuss what's wrong with the band, and not what's right.

I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.


Johnny Stew

[CarneVaca]

Funny how no one's touching the "crappy leftover" statement. Because it's true!

[Johnny Stew]

Could be that.... or it could be that no one wants to get into yet another argument with you over something that is entirely subjective.



Johnny Stew

[Bella Figura]

and the ref call "foul", free rim shots for Stevie....

she is the greatest musician to ever play music since Mozart
she is the most talented poet since Elizabeth Barret Browning
she is the most beautiful woman since Helen of Troy
she is the most popular 20th century icon since the Beatles and Elvis Presley put together
she is the priestess, she is the reason birds sing in the morning and crickets chirp at night
she is the goddess, she is the reason the sun shines in the morning and the moon beams at night
she is the reason i wear my platform boots proudly and you know what Nancy Sinatra has to say about boots...

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Could be that.... or it could be that no one wants to get into yet another argument with you over something that is entirely subjective.



Johnny Stew

Come on, Johnny, now you're just trying to hurt me.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Well they say the truth hurts

Pip

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
Well they say the truth hurts

Pip

Which is why all the Stevie fans on this board are whining?

Ouch!

[Street Angel]

I don´t see the need to post a "I defend Stevie with teeth and claws, because she´s perfect"-kind of post. But one thing that came to my mind when I read the posts was...

I can´t remember reading anywhere that artists like Peter Gabriel, Joni Mitchell or Lou Reed are highly regarded because of their perfection on any instruments. What they are acknowledged for is their talent in songwriting. If anyone wants to rank Stevie next to the SONGWRITING talents of the artists mentioned above, is of course anyone´s personal choice.

I think Stevie´s problem has often been the fact that unlike some other artists she involuntarily tends to distract people from looking at her work and make them concentrate on the "airy fairy"/ "black shawl"/ "priestess"/ "gypsy" or whatever aspect of her visual appearance instead.

[Street Angel]

AAH! Wrong thread... I somehow can´t get it moved over to the "Talents" thread... sorry!