Penguin Album Discography feedback thread

[wetcamelfood]

As many of you may already be aware, Marty and I have been trying to clean up the Penguin Discography a little here:

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/cgi-bin/...ie/do/find.cgi

and I just thought I’d start a thread here to get some feedback on it as we’d like to hear anything you’d like to see fixed/changed that we may have overlooked etc.

As far as errors go, we are aware that there are still a few pages missing that should be showing up there and there are a few pages that will be taken out (due to the Mac member in question not being on the album after all etc.) and the information on the new navigational system may not match up with what is currently in the “tracklisting pages” of the specific albums and we have not really touched on the other sections of the discography yet (singles, videos, etc.), just the albums for now.

Regarding “bootlegs” we plan to set up a “vintage bootleg” section wherein all of the current bootleg listings will go. We don’t see a point in adding current or future bootleg recordings in to the discography as in this Napster day and age of downloading and file sharing etc. there would simply be no way of cataloging such material anymore hence the “vintage bootlegs” section for the ones currently in the discography and I fully admit that I don’t really know much about bootleg recordings so if there are inaccuracies regarding any of those that are in there then please do let us know as that would be much appreciated to keep the data in the discography as correct as possible.

The “rule of thumb” for bootlegs in there as of now is that an item is considered “legit” if it was an item that can/could be bought from a retail outlet of some description in any country (though we realize that the laws of some European countries do permit the sale of “bootleg material”, those such items would still be kept in the vintage boots section just to help keep things tidy) so we have added the “radio show” type material (King biscuit etc.) in with the bootleg section as though they are probably legal to own going by an ebay frame of mind etc., they were never the things you could just walk in to a record store chain and “buy”. Items such as “Only rock and roll 1985-89” (& “75-79” etc.) will probably still say “radio show” on their respective tracklisting pages but those were actually “buy-able” items so they have been put in to the “regular” section.

We have kept the “promo giveaway” type albums in the “legit” section (such as the “...GLAAD awards” CD, “Stormy weather”, “Best buy tour ‘97” etc.). Right now though all of the bootleg items will be at the bottom of their respective sections (FM boots at the bottom of the “FM other appearances” section, SN boots at the bottom of SN’s solo albums section etc.) and the mentioned “vintage bootlegs” section will be set up shortly.

With the exception of the FM (and various members) tribute albums (Legacy, Blues for Greeny etc.) on which no FM member plays, the rest of the items in the discography (barring those few pages that we’ll need to take out and add in) have a FM member playing on the recording. We have tried to cross reference as many “non recording appearance” type pieces (due to them being in the discography anyways for the appearance on the recording of another Mac member) as we could. For instance, Stevie’s “solo guest appearances” discography will “point out” items such as Walter Egan’s “The lost album” (due to him covering “Sisters of the moon” on this album) and Rick Vito’s “Crazy cool” album (due to him covering “Love is dangerous”) though as stated, we have not had the chance yet to go through the tracklisting pages for those albums and state that “(Stevie) does not appear on (this) recording but (these people) covered (her song)” so one would know what the “level of involvement” is/was for those such items. “I” personally am a “recording appearance” only type of guy but we have decided to put in these kinds of facts so people won’t have to come to us later and say “hey you need to put this in” because we’ve done it already and we recognize that facts of this type are important to some fans and they feel these things should be pointed out. I admit that I’m not an expert on the songwriting credits etc. though so if there are any others that we may have overlooked then please do point them out!

We are also aware that in the cases of an artist having put out more than one album in a year, they may not be “sorting” correctly in the reverse chronological order in which we would like them to but unfortunately, as of now, this appears to be something that can not be fixed so we have tried to "fix" this by putting in the month of release next to the year of release on those albums that fall in to this area to at least show that we are aware that they aren’t sorting correctly but we are at least making the attempt of passing on more specific release date data so those surfing the discography will have access to the correct information, even if it is not sorting that way. There were many items in this respect that we could not obtain specific release date information on so if you see two albums by the same artists released in the same year and it does not have the month of release next to them and you know this information then please do let us know here so that can be added in to show our “awareness” of these kinds of discrepancies so we can make them appear as correct as possible for everyone.

As we have the section of the discography already listing as many “covers only” as has been done of songs written by FM members here (which again, has not been checked over yet):

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/fmcovers.htm

...we won’t be putting items such as the Dixie Chick’s “Home” album for their version of “Landslide” in the discography as listings such as this would go in this above linked section (but we have put in the “Divas Las Vegas“ CD as Stevie actually appears on THAT version of it). Just so you know that items such as “Home” we “don’t need to know about” in so far as the album section of the discography goes.

Another “rule of thumb” we are using is that if we have a biography at The Penguin on somebody (such as George Hawkins Jr., Todd Sharp, etc.) and they have appeared on any of the albums in the discography then we are trying to keep a note of their appearances on those items as well so the search feature can be well utilized. We have also included those artists that have had a Q & A at The Penguin and we have also given those artists that have five or more albums in the discography (such as Walter Egan, John Stewart, etc.) their own section of the “other artists” areas in addition to the “other bands” that the various FM members have been in over the years (such as Traffic, Paris, Tramp, John Mayall(’s Bluesbreakers) etc.) to help show that their “appearances” on those such albums will (in most cases) have had a greater impact (as they had sung lead, written songs and generally taken a bigger part in those projects due to their being members of those bands) as opposed to a true “guest appearance” only kind of project that you will find in each members discography in their “Other Artists/Various” sections.

Technically, there will be artists you will come across there such as say, Warren Zevon who will have 5 albums (counting compilations) but we didn’t think he had a close enough affiliation with FM to warrant giving him his “own section” but by all means, if anyone feels this is unjust or if we may have overlooked someone else that you think should fall in to this category then please do let us know about it here and we can hash it around.

We have taken a break from new additions for the time being so we can get as much straightened away on the current listings as we can but I still have about 60 or so items that I will be formatting for Marty which he will put on the site in the coming months (mainly more Dave Mason & Bekka guest appearance type material) but once you see that taking place again, if you know of anything the various members have played on that we
may have overlooked then please do submit it at that time.

For now though, we would like to hear from you here after you have the chance to look things over at the album discography to see what you like/don’t like and we can talk it over and hash out any areas the majority may not be happy with and based on the
feedback we get here, I can set up polls so we can determine what the “most popular choices” are. We’re aware that the ledge does not constitute nearly the amount of people that visit the Penguin website on a daily basis but at least the feedback we get here will give us “some” scope as to what people would like to see in the discography and if it is possible to be able to provide such ideas to the visitors of the this site’s discography.

Sorry for my usual long notes again but I just wanted to bring you all up to speed as to the areas we’re aware of that still need to be changed so that way any areas that are pointed out that don’t fall in to any of the above categories may well have been something we have overlooked so then we can fix/change it accordingly.

There’s no “time limit” on this I guess but the longer that goes on without any comments we will just assume that you are happy with what you are seeing over there and we want as many Mac fans as possible to be happy so please do let us know what you’d like to see in the album discography. Although we are both busy with tidying things up there, I'll try and stop in here as often as I can to see what's up. OK?

We’re looking forward to your comments.

John

[macfan 57]

John,
I really like the new discography layout. It definitely made it a lot easier to find the Chicken Shack albums that I was looking for. I have just a minor question. I was just wondering why the Chain box set is not considered an official album. Is it because it is no longer in print? It's not a big deal. I was just curious.

I do have a major problem and it might have something to do with WebTV, I'm not sure. The only way I have been able to access the new discography page is to use the New Album Discography links on the What's New Page. I am unable to access the new discography section with the album discography link on both the front page of The Penguin and the link at the bottom of The Ledge page. Are those links maybe old links? By the way, the link that you gave in this thread is fine-I got the new discography section right away.

[wetcamelfood]

Thanks for the comments Macfan57.

I'll alert Marty to the link/WebTV issue/query as I'm afraid I don't know what the deal is there.

The "unofficial" status of the Chain box was really just a "guess" on our part but we're more than happy to change that over in to the "official" section if wanted. If no one objects to it in this thread by Monday then we'll get it swapped over. That's a good point though, I'm not sure about the "Selections from..." related type pieces as well if this was to be changed, any ideas anyone?

John

[ThePenguin]

Macfan--

The current Fleetwood Mac discography page has a javascript menu system on it that leads into the new listings. This may not work with WebTV. Underneath that (and on all of the solo artist pages) are the old listings. Once we feel confident that all of the kinks have been removed from the old listings, I will make the links go directly to the new navigational system. This will not be with javascript so it should work for MTV.

I am moving The Chain boxset to the Official Albums. Thank for the feedback and also thanks once again to wetcamelfood. This project has kept both of us very busy for weeks now.

- Marty

[Cristian]

the work looks incredible, thanks for doing all that! Now it makes all the records far more accesible.

I've always have a complaint about FM discographies, though. They never seem to include the name of the author of the song. Yes, I would have to go to "lyrics" to find out, I know, but that doesn't work when it's an instrumental. Could that be a little addition to each track in at least the official albums? I know I'm asking for a huge bunch of more work, but still, I don't know if this has been asked before, and I see the writers of the song mentioned in some albums such as Stevie's TISL. So I don't know if this is possible. If not, then it's OK the same way.

Congrats for the good work, again.


Song of the moment - Peacekeeper

[wetcamelfood]

Well, we completely agree as we would like and hope to get as much info as we can on the albums in those "tracklisting" pages (such as songwriting credits etc.) BUT, it is going to have to be part of "the long term plan", and we DO MEAN, the LONG term plan but we do have every intention of getting around to that kind of "fine tuning" eventually but our main goal as of now is to clean up the "errors" and make sure things are sorting and catagorizing as correctly as we can get them and then we can add to it later. We're glad that we all seem to be on the same wavelength on this stuff so far though.

John

[Mac Fan]

Thanks John and Marty, now it's going to be a lot more easier than it was.
Sofie

[macfan 57]

Originally posted by ThePenguin
Macfan--

The current Fleetwood Mac discography page has a javascript menu system on it that leads into the new listings. This may not work with WebTV. Underneath that (and on all of the solo artist pages) are the old listings. Once we feel confident that all of the kinks have been removed from the old listings, I will make the links go directly to the new navigational system. This will not be with javascript so it should work for MTV.

I am moving The Chain boxset to the Official Albums. Thank for the feedback and also thanks once again to wetcamelfood. This project has kept both of us very busy for weeks now.

- Marty

Marty,
Thanks. You're right. I had a feeling the problem was WebTV related. Java is indeed incompatable with WebTV. In the meantime, I will use the links on the What's New page or the link in this thread.

Again, I do appreciate the work that you and John are doing with this. I use the discography section quite a bit myself.

[Cristian]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
our main goal as of now is to clean up the "errors" and make sure things are sorting and catagorizing as correctly as we can get them and then we can add to it later.

I was guessing that, but thought I'd add my "two cents" to the well-done job so far. So, thanks for reading and replying.


Song of the moment - That's Enough For Me

[BklynBlue]

Hello,
Though I am new to the list I would like to say I think you are doing a fantastic job and would like very much to contribute, to pay back as it were, by submitting some reviews for your consideration.
Problem is, the few that I've looked at so far, "Biggest Thing Since Colossus", John Mayall's "Thru the Years", the Blue Horizon Box Set, do not yet have a link allowing for reviews to be submitted.
I'll keep watching the listings and wait my time...
In the meantime, again keep up the great work

[ThePenguin]

Welcome BklynBlue and thank you for the comments. Although I still have to add hundreds of SSI calls directly on the album pages so that they show up there too, you can currently add reviews for any of the 700+ albums in the discography. Just follow the link that John provided at the top of this thread and find the album that interests you in the listings. There is a link next to each that says "Read / Submit Reviews". Click on that and start writing.

- Marty

[wetcamelfood]

Ya beat me to it Marty!

BklynBlue: On the new navingational system, to get to the page where you can write your review, when you are searching a discography listing you will see a line or two under the album title that says “Read/submit reviews”, click on that and then on THAT page, click on “Submit a review” in the top right hand corner. It’s in a different place than it was previously (as they used to be on the tracklisting pages for the albums, they are not there now) but the scripts do work as we tested them and we’ve had a few reviews since then (but the more reviews we get the better! ) If it’s of any help, here’s the link for submitting a review for Otis Spann’s “The biggest thing since colossus” album:

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/cgi-bin/...t-sku=colossus

Here’s the link for submitting a review for John Mayall’s “Thru the years” album:

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/cgi-bin/...oduct-sku=thru

When you said you wanted to write a review for the Blue Horizon box, I wasn’t sure which one you meant so if it’s of any help, here’s the link for submitting a review for FM’s “The complete Blue Horizon sessions” box set:

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/cgi-bin/...u=bluehorizon2

...and here’s the link for submitting a review for the “The Blue Horizon story 1965-1970 Vol. 1” box set:

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/cgi-bin/...ku=bluehorizon

Any reviews are much appreciated so thank you very much in advance for that and as Marty says, thank you in general for your comments!

John