If you are hoping for a reunion....

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by lovethemac1

Absolutely!! I agree with you, Sasja.

Bwboy, Lindsey has NEVER spoken about these things. He’s always been quiet and doesn’t get into the muck ever. Why would now be any different? It’s just not his style and I’m not surprised. I always hope he will say something, but haven’t held my breath. So by stating that he’s done something because he hasn’t spoken, makes no sense.

Why would his wife come out and repeatedly say the same thing, if it wasn’t true? ESP if the band could prove it wrong in some way. But her story hasn’t changed and no one has proven HER wrong.

Seriously.... to believe Mick and Stevie's words just because THEY have spoken and Lindsey hasn't only shows how little you care about what happened. They were forced to speak about the subject because they need to promote this lame tour, that's all. It's not like they are willingly doing it.

And yes, I'm still waiting for those two to say how wrong KB is. Until they say otherwise, I'm choosing to believe her.
Stevie's twitter account is run by Karen. So that means I can't believe anything she says because she's Karen. Why is KB different than Stevie's assistant?

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by bwboy

Bingo! That is exactly what I think happened, and that is exactly why I think Lindsey hasn't given his side of the story. You said it better than I could have. People have said Lindsey has been silent because he doesn't do a lot of press or social media, may have been paid money, or is taking the high road. Another theory is just what SteveMacD said. It is a possibility. I agree none of us knows what actually happened... but since Lindsey has remained silent, I accept FM's explanation.

This isn't a sudden revelation for me... I was happy to give Lindsey some time to tell his story. But it's been months and he still hasn't let the fans know his side of what happened, so yeah, to me his silence gives the FM story credibility. And I'm not saying that would make FM right in this situation for firing Lindsey. I am saying it puts the split in a different light. If Lindsey wanted a concurrent tour, it could and should have been worked out, but if one side wouldn't budge, then I could see why he was fired.

But the band has said nothing about a concurrent tour publicly. Their public line is only that he wanted a delay. Thus, if you believe the concurrent tour is the real story, then you too believe the band to be lying in their interviews.

I'm actually puzzled now as to what you're questioning about Kristen's statement, as she never denied the concurrent tour request, and I too believe that is what happened.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by lovethemac1

Bwboy, Lindsey has NEVER spoken about these things. He’s always been quiet and doesn’t get into the muck ever. Why would now be any different? It’s just not his style and I’m not surprised. I always hope he will say something, but haven’t held my breath. So by stating that he’s done something because he hasn’t spoken, makes no sense.

Maybe it's a matter of opinion, but I don't think it's getting in the muck for Lindsey to give his side of the story. Especially when his wife is commenting on the internet about the situation. And that is her right, but it contrasts heavily that she's commenting on it while her husband remains silent. Obviously, Lindsey doesn't mind that she's commenting on his firing, or she wouldn't be doing it, so why not just end the speculation by telling his side of the story. If FM had refused to comment on his firing, they would have been raked through the coals. They answered the questions, and if Lindsey disagrees with what they said, then he should speak up. His silence speaks volumes to me.

Again, I'm not saying they were right to fire him, or that he did anything wrong. What I am saying is that maybe what the band said happened is close to what actually happened, and that would explain why Lindsey hasn't contradicted it. I don't believe that Lindsey took a payoff to stay silent, and I'm shocked that other people seem to think he did. If he did, he gets no sympathy from me, but I don't believe he would do that.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

But the band has said nothing about a concurrent tour publicly. Their public line is only that he wanted a delay. Thus. If you believe the concurrent tour is the real story, then you too believe the band to be lying in their interviews.

I'm actually puzzled now as to what you're questioning about Kristen's statement, as she never denied the concurrent tour request, and I too believe that is what happened.

The band spoke for themselves in the interviews about the situation. Lindsey has not. I don't care what John's wife, Stevie's brother, Christine's boyfriend, or Mick's sister says about the situation. Likewise, I don't care what Lindsey's wife has to say. Sorry that is unreasonable to you, but at least I'm consistent

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by button-lip

Stevie's twitter account is run by Karen. So that means I can't believe anything she says because she's Karen. Why is KB different than Stevie's assistant?

There is no difference- I agree with you 100%! If Stevie's Twitter account is run by somebody else, then I wouldn't believe those were Stevie's words, either. Same thing with Lindsey and his wife.

If Lindsey's account of his firing is that different from what FM said, he has the option to tell his side. If he chooses not to end the speculation and let the fans know what happened, that's too bad he chooses to let the rumors fly.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by bwboy

The band spoke for themselves in the interviews about the situation. Lindsey has not. I don't care what John's wife, Stevie's brother, Christine's boyfriend, or Mick's sister says about the situation. Likewise, I don't care what Lindsey's wife has to say. Sorry that is unreasonable to you, but at least I'm consistent

Actually no, you contradicted yourself. You said you believed SteveMacD's theory. You also say you believe the band is telling the truth. However, SteveMacD believes the band lied.

So which do you actually believe?

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Actually no, you contradicted yourself. You said you believed SteveMacD's theory. You also say you believe the band is telling the truth. However, SteveMacD believes the band lied.

So which do you actually believe?

It's possible to believe both. I only watched the interview once... I admit I am not the kind of fan who watches every interview several times, or remembers every word said, but my memory was that Stevie said something like he wanted to postpone the tour, and the rest of the band didn't want to wait. It's entirely possible that Lindsey suggested both ideas- for FM to postpone the tour until he was done with his solo dates, and when that didn't fly, he suggested he tour concurrently. Or vice versa. Doesn't mean the band lied, I mean they certainly didn't go into great detail, and I'm sure we all agree there was more to the story, and they just gave the basic info- there was an impasse and they couldn't agree, so Lindsey was fired. You know, kind of like back in 1987, when FM came to an impasse and Lindsey left the band in the lurch, leaving them scrambling. Just this time, the shoe was on the other foot. Just like it was Lindsey's right to leave in 1987, it's their right to fire him in 2018.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Mick said “fired” was “too strong a word” and Lindsey called it “an involuntary hiatus” from the band.

Steve (or anyone)--where did Lindsey say this? (I did a bit of a search but it wasn't fruitful)

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by bwboy

It's possible to believe both. I only watched the interview once... I admit I am not the kind of fan who watches every interview several times, or remembers every word said, but my memory was that Stevie said something like he wanted to postpone the tour, and the rest of the band didn't want to wait. It's entirely possible that Lindsey suggested both ideas- for FM to postpone the tour until he was done with his solo dates, and when that didn't fly, he suggested he tour concurrently. Or vice versa. Doesn't mean the band lied, I mean they certainly didn't go into great detail, and I'm sure we all agree there was more to the story, and they just gave the basic info- there was an impasse and they couldn't agree, so Lindsey was fired. You know, kind of like back in 1987, when FM came to an impasse and Lindsey left the band in the lurch, leaving them scrambling. Just this time, the shoe was on the other foot. Just like it was Lindsey's right to leave in 1987, it's their right to fire him in 2018.

Kristen said he never asked for a delay.

I too initially thought he asked for both (perhaps briefly mentioning a delay as a possibility at one point) and that the band was lying by omission. While it's still wrong and a distortion of the truth, I can see how they could tell themselves they weren't really lying.

But it is no longer possible to believe both. Again, Kristen has now said he never asked for one. They were lying absolutely. There is no way to justify it.

You know what they have said now. Still, it appears you do not have a problem with their lie, as long as their lie is mitigated by other unknown factors.

We will have to agree to disagree on that.

I am disgusted by it.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

We will have to agree to disagree on that.

I agree, and I'm glad we can do so respectfully

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Yet, nobody ever says “fired.”

Mick said “fired” was “too strong a word” and Lindsey called it “an involuntary hiatus” from the band. Even the initial press release only said Lindsey wouldn’t be performing on the upcoming tour.

There’s a reason for that. Whether or not Lindsey ever performs with them again is another issue. But, legally, I think he’s still a member of the band and will get a little money from the upcoming tour.

Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo

Steve (or anyone)--where did Lindsey say this? (I did a bit of a search but it wasn't fruitful)

Lindsey's only public statement was at a benefit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEI3ftV3y1s

Actually, Lindsey does not call it an "involuntary hiatus." It always annoys me when people put things in quotation marks as if they are exact words when they're actually that person's paraphrase of what was said. SteveMacD has done that a few times, and he's not the only one. Both of SteveMacD's "quotations" here are actually paraphrases, and imprecise ones at that.

Lindsey's words were: "I have sadly taken leave of my band of 43 years, Fleetwood Mac. This was not something that was really my doing or my choice."


As for Mick, he said that he didn't want to use the word "firing" because it was "ugly" - not because it was "too strong." This is from CBS:

Interviewer Voiceover: Tensions were building, Fleetwood says, because Buckingham would not sign off on a new tour they'd been planning for a year and a half.

Mick: It became just a huge impasse and hit a brick wall where we decided that we had to part company.

Interviewer: Was Lindsey effectively fired?

Mick: Well, we don't use that word because I think it's ugly, and it's not a question of that. Lindsey has huge amounts of respect and kudos to what he's done within the ranks of Fleetwood Mac and always will, but it's like a marriage that came to an end, and there are reasons why. And, as a band, we needed to move on, and we have.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Kristen said he never asked for a delay.

I too initially thought he asked for both (perhaps briefly mentioning a delay as a possibility at one point) and that the band was lying by omission. While it's still wrong and a distortion of the truth, I can see how they could tell themselves they weren't really lying.

But it is no longer possible to believe both. Again, Kristen has now said he never asked for one. They were lying absolutely. There is no way to justify it.

You know what they have said now. Still, it appears you do not have a problem with their lie, as long as their lie is mitigated by other unknown factors.

We will have to agree to disagree on that.

I am disgusted by it.

Yeah, like I said, Lindsey's silence is odd but Mick and Stevie's lies are absolutely fine.

And again, they spoke because they had no choice. If it was up to them, I'm 100% sure they would have remained silent. So, yes, don't put them on a pedestal because OH, THEY HAVE SPOKEN!

I'm too disgusted by what they had done and by those who stil think what they have done was reasonable.

[sodascouts]

I also took some time to transcribe Mick's lying blather from the Rolling Stone interview:

Interviewer: So I've heard for a long time there's plans to do a big tour in 2018. And at what point did you realize that it was going to be without Lindsey? How long ago did the split happen?

Mick: After MusiCares in New York, which is 3 months ago.

Stevie: Which was February?

Interviewer: I think it was late January maybe?

Stevie: I don't know, because I left for Maui on the fourth of February. So it was, had to be more like... I think it was like the 26th of January. Somewhere at MusiCares or somewhere in that...

Interviewer: Right. And prior to that, you thought the tour was going to be with Lindsey?

Mick: Well, we didn't...

Christine: Yes.

Mick: ...know we had a tour. That was, is, part of the problem in terms of where it became a total impasse. The four of us had to come to a decision where we planned to be doing a large, huge, lovely Fleetwood Mac tour, and Lindsey, for sure, had very different opinions about when that should start. And the whole thing, without belaboring it, was percolating in a way that was not OK for the majority of the band in terms of knowing that we were going to go on tour. And he had, for whatever reasons... and Lindsey would, I'm sure, address it in terms of a project he was working on... but it's not about oh, what do you mean, why couldn't you wait, and all that stuff. We'd planned on doing what we were doing for a long, long time and the majority rules in terms of what we needed to do as a band and go forward. And it literally hit a brick wall after the show and Fleetwood Mac is no... you're sitting there, you're very conversant with the strange animal known as Fleetwood Mac.... and really, a lot of other sensibilities came into play where it just wasn't a happy situation. And we made that decision that we were going to part company.

Interviewer: So the biggest issue was scheduling the tour? Is that what happened, Stevie? [she goes on with her story]


[~ later in the interview ~]

Interviewer: And just to clarify... there seems some confusion now. Did he quit, or was he fired, or was it somewhere in between? Just how would you clarify his departure?

Mick: All of the "fired" words and the, you know... they're all ugly references as far as I'm concerned. But not to hedge around... an impasse of hitting a brick wall... there was not a happy situation for us in terms of the logistics of a functioning band. And in truth, no secret to anyone in the room, quietly, without going into... some of the things had a muscle memory of not being hugely fun. And to that purpose, we made a decision that we could not go on with Lindsey. So it's really up to people such as yourself, with, "What do you mean, you let him go?" We made a decision: "We can go on without you." That is correct.

[lovethemac1]

Originally Posted by button-lip

Yeah, like I said, Lindsey's silence is odd but Mick and Stevie's lies are absolutely fine.

And again, they spoke because they had no choice. If it was up to them, I'm 100% sure they would have remained silent. So, yes, don't put them on a pedestal because OH, THEY HAVE SPOKEN!

I'm too disgusted by what they had done and by those who stil think what they have done was reasonable.

yep, 100%.

And if you follow this line of thinking, that Stevie and Mick MUST be correct because they have spoken out, then why do some people think that Kristen isn't telling the truth because she's spoken out?

Esp when her husband NEVER talks about these things. (I'm not sure why I have to keep reminding people of this fact-for whatever reason, legal or not, Lindsey does not talk about anything like this-stop assuming everyone needs to get in front of a camera and bare their soul-he doesn't)

Of course Kristen will speak the truth, and if she has the balls to call these losers out in the social media, then you better believe that she's spot on. Otherwise, she would have stayed quiet. They could have ripped her to shreds if she was lying. But they haven't because she is telling the truth.

[lovethemac1]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I also took some time to transcribe Mick's lying blather from the Rolling Stone interview:

Interviewer: So I've heard for a long time there's plans to do a big tour in 2018. And at what point did you realize that it was going to be without Lindsey? How long ago did the split happen?

Mick: After MusiCares in New York, which is 3 months ago.

Stevie: Which was February?

Interviewer: I think it was late January maybe?

Stevie: I don't know, because I left for Maui on the fourth of February. So it was, had to be more like... I think it was like the 26th of January. Somewhere at MusiCares or somewhere in that...

Interviewer: Right. And prior to that, you thought the tour was going to be with Lindsey?

Mick: Well, we didn't...

Christine: Yes.

Mick: ...know we had a tour. That was, is, part of the problem in terms of where it became a total impasse. The four of us had to come to a decision where we planned to be doing a large, huge, lovely Fleetwood Mac tour, and Lindsey, for sure, had very different opinions about when that should start. And the whole thing, without belaboring it, was percolating in a way that was not OK for the majority of the band in terms of knowing that we were going to go on tour. And he had, for whatever reasons... and Lindsey would, I'm sure, address it in terms of a project he was working on... but it's not about oh, what do you mean, why couldn't you wait, and all that stuff. We'd planned on doing what we were doing for a long, long time and the majority rules in terms of what we needed to do as a band and go forward. And it literally hit a brick wall after the show and Fleetwood Mac is no... you're sitting there, you're very conversant with the strange animal known as Fleetwood Mac.... and really, a lot of other sensibilities came into play where it just wasn't a happy situation. And we made that decision that we were going to part company.

Interviewer: So the biggest issue was scheduling the tour? Is that what happened, Stevie? [she goes on with her story]


[~ later in the interview ~]

Interviewer: And just to clarify... there seems some confusion now. Did he quit, or was he fired, or was it somewhere in between? Just how would you clarify his departure?

Mick: All of the "fired" words and the, you know... they're all ugly references as far as I'm concerned. But not to hedge around... an impasse of hitting a brick wall... there was not a happy situation for us in terms of the logistics of a functioning band. And in truth, no secret to anyone in the room, quietly, without going into... some of the things had a muscle memory of not being hugely fun. And to that purpose, we made a decision that we could not go on with Lindsey. So it's really up to people such as yourself, with, "What do you mean, you let him go?" We made a decision: "We can go on without you." That is correct.

Stevie can't even remember dates properly as she spins around and around, blathering because she can't remember what she's suppose to say. And then finally admits it was at MusicCares, or somewhere like that. She knows dead on when it was, where it was and how it happened. She appears old, senile and cruel by acting like it was at "some point." I hope she got sunburnt in Maui. ARRGGHH I used to adore her, now.......blech