Just Skimmed Through STORMS - Page 9

gretchen · #**121** 07-06-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly

Windy Sails

Kelly · #**122** 07-06-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

My mistake

No, it is the same - apparently to me and many others because they are not doing it just through the music. They are perpetuating it (the romance, the hey day, etc. ) during interviews and rote movements onstage to make a buck and to sell what is not really that saleable anymore without it - and they know it. So, I say if they can comment in that genre on that era and all that went on, so can Carol Ann, no matter how wrong her memory may be. After all, she was there and it is her story to tell as well. I mean certainly all of FM has misremembered more than one detail and certainly they all have said things out of spite born in scorn

But, to each their own.

Interestingly, if Carol Ann had praised La Nicks and LB - even if untrue - I do not think we would be having this conversation.

I get the sense you just hate her and she can do nothing right. But and again, to each their own

As usual, your senses are wrong.

I don't hate her, never implied that I hate her. I dislike her motivations for writing the book. Nothing more, nothing less. She seems quite nice on the Rumours Japan footage, albeit a bit meek and mild. After rereading my posts in this thread, I am confused why you would have the sense I hate her anyway. My posts are actually pretty tame compared to some opinions about CA. I didn't like when Mick wrote his tell all book either but that doesn't mean I "hate him". Or that Stevie didn't write any songs about him.

I just question why Ca felt the need to write the book, at this point in her life, when LB has little kids and appears happily married.

I know he is not a saint, I never thought he was a saint and I am aware it is CA's story to tell. I just cringe at some of the details she felt it necessary to include...esp when I think about Will perhaps stumbling upon them one day. I know, I know, I know.. that there is plenty of scandal involving FM and SnL that they kids will find out about sooner or later.

strandinthewind · #**123** 07-06-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly

. . . I just question why Ca felt the need to write the book, at this point in her life, when LB has little kids and appears happily married.

. . . .

I believe she has been trying to get this book out for many years, but has been blocked from doing that for whatever reason. So, I think the book in theory was going to be released five or so years ago. I think from that vantage point, Ca, like LB and La Nicks, felt that this is a time when they (FM) likely will last be very popular (the SYW tour) . So, Ca, like La Nicks and LB, cashed in on an old story they are all still telling, despite LB and his kids

Tango · #**124** 07-06-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly

I know he is not a saint, I never thought he was a saint and I am aware it is CA's story to tell. I just cringe at some of the details she felt it necessary to include...esp when I think about Will perhaps stumbling upon them one day. I know, I know, I know.. that there is plenty of scandal involving FM and SnL that they kids will find out about sooner or later.

Carol Ann says she wrote the book for two purposes:

-She's tired of reading and hearing lies about the band. That Fleetwood Mac wrote the soundtrack to our lives and information about that band ought to be true. (One can argue the definitions of true history ad nauseum.)

-She wanted to get the truth out about her life without being misquoted, without things being cut out. She wanted to go on the record once and for all about it.

And I think it's totally fair to add the third reason- since she put her personal time into writing this book, she wishes to be compensated for her written interview. She could have done it for free. She could have done a Q&A on The Penguin, for example. It would never be seen. Rumours sold a lot of albums. There will definitely be some interest in the book. She wants her version of the truth to finally be out there. But when would the timing ever be okay. Not during Fleetwood Mac's hey day. Not while the band was doing Tusk. Not during Mirage. Not during Tango. She waited almost 30 years. Should she wait another 20 to allow the children to grow up? Who would even recall this band? Would she have her own faculties together enough? I'll be surprised if Lindsey or Stevie ever write a book about this band. Mick did. Now there is an outsider's take. Just as with Mick's book, we are free to take it or leave it. Buy it, not buy it. Wonder about it, talk about it, disect it, trash it, critique it. But it's out there. And I appreciate the many critiques that have been made about it. It's fair game.

I think Lindsey's children will inevitably learn about their him and his past. They will learn that he wasn't a saint, that he wasn't perfect, that he did some things that will shame him. That Fleetwood Mac was a band of flawed human beings suddenly made rich by adoring fans. And it will hurt their feelings. They are the innocents. Just as Mick's children were. And they will survive, because they will also know he was the father that loving raised them with a mother that also loves them. And hopefully with the support of good parents they will be strong children. Not passive ones. They won't be the "Lady of Shallott" that Carol Ann felt herself to be. They won't be imprisioned on an island, not looking out the window, not confronting or being a part of real life. (page XIV/introduction).

Boots · #**125** 07-06-2007, 11:03 AM

The thing is...I don't think her book has shed any new light on the history of the band. She fleshes out a few things we as fans already knew, but we are hearing/reading her perception. Maybe its due to my not having finished the book yet, but I haven't really discovered any shocking new stories in this book.

And as for that gorgeous picture that Tango posted...Look at that beautiful family that Lindsey has made! The man has grown. I think those demons left town for good the day his son Will was born. God bless him - what a fabulous time he must be having now.

Tango · #**126** 07-06-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boots

The thing is...I don't think her book has shed any new light on the history of the band. She fleshes out a few things we as fans already knew, but we are hearing/reading her perception. Maybe its due to my not having finished the book yet, but I haven't really discovered any shocking new stories in this book.

And as for that gorgeous picture that Tango posted...Look at that beautiful family that Lindsey has made! The man has grown. I think those demons left town for good the day his son Will was born. God bless him - what a fabulous time he must be having now.

Nah, Nico posted that pic! I just 'borrowed' it for my post.

It's a fabulous picture!

Betsy · #**127** 07-06-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boots

...I'm getting a bit deeper into the book. It's fascinating and tedious all at the same time...

I take issue with her own portrayal of herself back then. I don't see her as a young woman who had a real plan to be a sound mixer or produer. I see her as a young woman who wanted to go to Hollywood and be part of the glamour...

...there's no doubt that Lindsey loved her and needed her to be with him at all times. However - I think she pats herself way too much on the back ... it makes ther reader (me) lose any sympathy for her.

... I get this sense that Carol ... is tapping into memories of a 20-something girl ... The years have not provided a shadow of wisdom or humility in the telling of this story...

Another negative element in this book, is her way of telling a story. Not all the flowery, pretty prose can mold a biography into place. She would have ... let US figure things out for ourselves ...

... her relationship with Stevie and how she protrays it, is manipulating to the reader. She doesn't write the situations with enough information to let the reader ... figure out Stevie or anyone else in this FM kingdom.

... Stevie took Carol aside to give her some advice on how to handle LB when he's in a violent mood. Carol never really fleshes out what Stevie said to her. Instead, she provides a very biased view of the conversation, where we do not have the slightest clue as to what Stevie said, but we are left feeling that Nicks was being controlling and weird to her.

... Harris' writing is very one dimensional. I don't know who is right or wrong here - I only know I'm being manipulated in siding with a glorified groupie, whose remembrance of incidents from 25 years ago are tainted with the view of a young, not very bright, woman.

This is one of the best book reports/reviews, I have ever read....and I wasn't smart enough to draw it all together like Boots did. This states the frustrations I have with the book and my difficulty in finishing it.

On another matter, I am enjoying this thread and others like it. It is fun to be reading the same book and get so many different opinions and interpretations, and not just about the book but the subject matter as well.

Thanks for making my "hot-as-a-pizza-oven" summer more enjoyable.

Boots · #**128** 07-06-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

This is one of the best book reports/reviews, I have ever read....and I wasn't smart enough to draw it all together like Boots did. This states the frustrations I have with the book and my difficulty in finishing it.

On another matter, I am enjoying this thread and others like it. It is fun to be reading the same book and get so many different opinions and interpretations, and not just about the book but the subject matter as well.

Thanks for making my "hot-as-a-pizza-oven" summer more enjoyable.

Thanks for the compliment on my review, Betsy! You broke it down in a more streamlined fashion. I wrote down my views on the book thus far, but I tend to be verbose. I never write well on bulletin boards. I guess I get a bit lazy. But yeah...those are the views I had...love 'em or leave 'em.

Stay cool wherever you are!

carol7lynn · #**129** 07-06-2007, 05:03 PM

Right on Kelly! I totally agree, and then some, with all of your major points.

And, just as another poster observed, her book does not shed any new light on the Stevie and Lindsey story, so that we may get a better idea of whether or not the two will eventually get back together again.

Frankly, I could care less about her impoverished background, miscarriage, or high school psycho-babble about any of the members of the band. I agree, with another poster above that said, if she had truly wanted to become a sound engineer (or anything other than an extension of a man), she would have made it happen.

It seems to me, that this woman's only ambition, was to hook up with someone/anyone famous in the entertainment field long before she made her momentous, post graduation trip, to Hollywood with her bgf. She probably dreamed of being Mrs. Rock-Star, while running up her high school wardrobe ("to look like store bought clothes": How Ellie Mae can you get?) on her mother's worn-out Singer, while her more gifted siblings, were working their way through college.

Here is a woman who within days of moving to Hollywood, shacks up with the first man she meets/falls for and takes up his felonious career of bootlegging concert albums. And, although, Ms. Harris likes to play the dewy-eyed, selfless, ingenue, in the FWM story, it takes a calculating woman to give up her first born child (a girl) for adoption, because she doesn't want to face up to the fact that she had a child out of wedlock, at a time when she was not financially able to take care of it. The child came second to her need to be in Hollywood pursuing a career that was undefined until she met her first Hollywood (con) artist. Otherwise she would have gotten a better paying job and sucked it in and toughed it out. I'm sure the daughter would have rather had her mother's love than a chance "at a college education."

Again, Lindsey's artistic musings and biographical anecdotes about her, never approached the level of spite, that her tell-on-you stories do in this book. She loved him so much that she waited until he put her in a neck brace before she left him (martyr that she was), but she left her daughter before she was even born (selfish as she was.) The woman is a self-righteous, amoral PIG.

She reminds me of Angela Bowie dishing it for a dollar after David dumped her. And, where o' where is Angie now.

In short, this book has nothing to do with "Storms" within the FWM family, but everything to do with the fact that CA wasted eight or more years of her life, pursuing a man who wouldn't even marry her. She comes across as a bitter "Girl From Yesterday" that is bound and determined to get even and to also get back some of the FWM glory and money that she had grown so used to enjoying some twenty odd years ago.

CarolC

lieueitak · #**130** 07-06-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carol7lynn

it takes a calculating woman to give up her first born child (a girl) for adoption, because she doesn't want to face up to the fact that she had a child out of wedlock, at a time when she was not financially able to take care of it. The child came second to her need to be in Hollywood pursuing a career that was undefined until she met her first Hollywood (con) artist. Otherwise she would have gotten a better paying job and sucked it in and toughed it out. I'm sure the daughter would have rather had her mother's love than a chance "at a college education."

Let me preface this by saying two things: one, I'm not a huge fan of CAH, and two, I haven't read her book. And maybe if I do read her book, I'll feel differently, but I am honestly shocked at what a few people have said about Carol Ann placing her child up for adoption. Being a parent means that you must be willing to sacrifice your own happiness and needs for the benefit of your child. And sometimes, the best decision a woman/man/couple can make is knowing that she/he/they cannot provide those things for tir baby.

Even if CAH was uncomfortable with the idea of having a baby out of wedlock, in the end, if she really wanted to be a mother, she would have. I expect, like most difficult decisions in life, this one was not made lightly. And certainly, there's nothing wrong with putting your child up for adoption so that he/she may have a better life with someone else.

A question: does Carol Ann say/know what happened to her biological child? Because if not, then I think it's really wrong to say that this baby never had her mother's love. Carol Ann may be the biological mother, but if this little girl was adopted, then the only mother who matters is the one who raised her. I myself am adopted, and I have never once felt as though I had been robbed. My parents are the people who raised me, who loved me, who helped me through the hard times.

I know that a lot of people don't like CAH. I'm one of them, but I don't think it's necessary to find evil in every little thing she has done. Maybe she did give her child up for lame reasons. But if that's true, then she very obviously was not ready to make the sacrifices inherent in being a parent. In other words, she would have done the right thing for her child, and I don't see any reason to fault her for that. Especially when there are way better reasons to hate her.

Tango · #**131** 07-06-2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lieueitak

Let me preface this by saying two things: one, I'm not a huge fan of CAH, and two, I haven't read her book. And maybe if I do read her book, I'll feel differently, but I am honestly shocked at what a few people have said about Carol Ann placing her child up for adoption. Being a parent means that you must be willing to sacrifice your own happiness and needs for the benefit of your child. And sometimes, the best decision a woman/man/couple can make is knowing that she/he/they cannot provide those things for tir baby.

Even if CAH was uncomfortable with the idea of having a baby out of wedlock, in the end, if she really wanted to be a mother, she would have. I expect, like most difficult decisions in life, this one was not made lightly. And certainly, there's nothing wrong with putting your child up for adoption so that he/she may have a better life with someone else.

A question: does Carol Ann say/know what happened to her biological child? Because if not, then I think it's really wrong to say that this baby never had her mother's love. Carol Ann may be the biological mother, but if this little girl was adopted, then the only mother who matters is the one who raised her. I myself am adopted, and I have never once felt as though I had been robbed. My parents are the people who raised me, who loved me, who helped me through the hard times.

I know that a lot of people don't like CAH. I'm one of them, but I don't think it's necessary to find evil in every little thing she has done. Maybe she did give her child up for lame reasons. But if that's true, then she very obviously was not ready to make the sacrifices inherent in being a parent. In other words, she would have done the right thing for her child, and I don't see any reason to fault her for that. Especially when there are way better reasons to hate her.

I agree with you. The decision that Carol Ann Harris made was not simplistic and selfish. The author speaks of what happened to the baby on page 4 of the book. The baby girl had a name. I cannot fault any woman for this anguished decision. "For on the day I signed the adoption papers, a part of me died, and was still dead." At the end of the book, page 373, she not only was reunited with her daughter, but invited and attended her wedding.

So clearly and early in this book it becomes clear that Carol Ann was not strong, not healthy- rather, pathologically passive. "From that moment we lived life on John's terms." When she was wronged, she never confronted it, never discussed it. And the cycle continued.

trackaghost · #**132** 07-06-2007, 06:28 PM

Great post lieueitak, I completely agree.

As for the arguments that CAH doesn't give the full picture in regards her relationship with Stevie, well the very nature of an autobiography is that it's bias. This is very much her view of Stevie, and let's face it the two were very much rivals, they were never going to be best friends, so of course her impression of Stevie isn't going to be as flattering as a friend or fan writing about her, if it had been I would have been shocked. I have no doubt Stevie isn't as bad as she makes out on some things, but she's probably more spot on and honest about other things than someone in the Stevie circle, it goes both ways. If you go into any autobiography expecting a well-rounded picture then you are always going to be disappointed, as it's always going to be one person's take or opinion on things.

I also agree with Strand in that, while the book is obviously a cash-in, it's still her life and she has every right to tell it, as flawed as it may be.

And carol7lynn if you have no interest whatever in CAH's life then I have no clue why you just read her autobiography, since that's what an autobiography is: the story of someone's life, her's just happened to be involved with the Fleetwood Mac machine for a long time.

Quote:

her book does not shed any new light on the Stevie and Lindsey story, so that we may get a better idea of whether or not the two will eventually get back together again.

If you bought the book thinking that's what it was going to do then no wonder you're so pissed off about it. You really just need to accept they are never going to get back together, all the hugging and flirting on stage during the last tour was an act!

I'm not really a fan of CAH, I think she's a flake and her writing isn't going to win her any awards, but I do think it's a interesting insight to the Mac's world from a first-hand witness, and sorta refreshing after that dreadful Stevie biography last year.

strandinthewind · #**133** 07-06-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackaghost

. . . I also agree with Strand in that, while the book is obviously a cash-in, it's still her life and she has every right to tell it, as flawed as it may be.

Great minds . . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackaghost

And carol7lynn if you have no interest whatever in CAH's life then I have no clue why you just read her autobiography

Like watching a train wreck for we devoted ones