Brett Tuggle Dishes the details to Rolling Stone

[BigAl84]

No need to apologize, John. It's all good.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

We still don’t have an answer to what “that” is. What was “that” issue?

The only question that got answered is who the first singer was, and it sounds like Neil was the first choice from the outset.

“There were some key things”

Like what?

“There had been some meetings that didn’t go well and people would walk out. There was some pretty upset people at other people. A lot of this was coming from Stevie and Lindsey’s differences about how they viewed this next tour.”

What were those differences???

“But there were a couple of bad exchanges in meetings and other things that lead to some high drama with Stevie.”

What was the nature of those bad exchanges? What were the other things?

“After the Pretenders tour and the success of that, she had gotten to a place where she wasn’t going to bend on things. She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band.”

What things? What’s “it?”

“It was really between Lindsey wanting time for a little short run of his solo work and then get back to the Mac.”

So, he wanted a delay from what they were planning? Isn’t that basically what the band said? I guess I’m not seeing the lie. Maybe an exaggeration on time on Stevie’s part, but that’s hardly new for her.



The accounts line up surprisingly well.

The key things, "it" all seem references to the tour. Perhaps about who got what percentage, how many dates, how many days between dates (Stevie likely wanted more money, and we know she likes to have more days off between dates. Even Chrissie Hynde commented on that, and that for her it made the tour long and boring, so much so that she and the Pretenders booked their own gigs in between Stevie shows.....exactly what LB proposed for the FM tour). Clearly once Chris returned Stevie had the justification to not want to be on a plane with LB and have a "girls" plane (w/out Chris she'd be the only band member with their own plane and would highlight her narcissism). Also "it" and the "issues" leading to "exchanges" in meetings seem likely to have included LB's want to push the tour back 3-4 months and/or his alternate request to be able to do small solo shows between Mac shows. We know that Stevie countered with a condition that if that were to happen she wanted x number of days between a FM show and one of his solo shows so they didn't come too close together. This of course would lengthen the overall tour.... I mean, really, it's not that hard to take some educated guesses as to what topics would have made tour meetings unpleasant. And if Stevie and her management felt she had leverage post-Pretenders tour who knows what else she asked for that for professional and personal reasons LB would push back against. I mean, how much clearer does Brett have to be when he says that it was differences between SN and LB about the tour??

There is a HUGE difference between "One of the band members didn't want to tour" and someone asking "Can we push the start date back 12 weeks" or "I want to do small solo shows between FM shows". The band pretty much (and I think she or Mick may have used the actual word) said he "refused" to tour. He clearly was NOT "refusing" to tour, he was NEGOTIATING the schedule.

The only specific detail that's not been publicly disclosed is what his beef was about the house music at MusicCares and who he snapped at. It's been rumored that he didn't like that they used a SN song and that he snapped at Karen. Not so hard to imagine. But like Brett said, did it warrant firing??? Really??

As for the smirking, I still think that's bs. No one has shown any evidence of it; and if you read the verbiage carefully what has been said all around is that Stevie "thought" he had smirked.

What I want to know is what was the tension from Mick and Stevie BEFORE the Musicares performance? Had she given him the ultimatum then? I would think she'd put that ultimatum to him earlier, during tour negotiations. As others have pointed out, the band had already been feeling out promoters about a tour without one or the other.

[bwboy]

[QUOTE=John Run;1261008]I will say this next part with as much cushion and care as possible, as I don't want to offend. In 25 years of similar work, no one settles an 8 figure lawsuit in 3 mdonths because they want to be done with someone, it is unheard of. It was most likely settled because the defendants likely exposure to damages upon discovery and entrance into public record are far greater than the settlement

I think FM wanted to settle the lawsuit as quickly as possible to avoid prolonging it while they were on the road, so that every concert review didn't mention the pending lawsuit, for example. You're right, it was smart to settle- they fired him, despite having signed contracts to tour, so just give him the money and everyone signs a NDA and presto, the lawsuit is over. Lindsey got his money AND still got to tour solo, and FM got to tour without Lindsey. Everybody won, in the financial sense, and that was what I meant in my earlier post. Whether the settlement was $10 million or $14 million, the band was apparently more than willing to pay it in order to end the lawsuit. It's not like the money came out of their pockets, anyway. Maybe they each made $2 million dollars less from the tour than they would have, but with as much money as they all have, I doubt they had to pinch too many pennies.

[soul_drifter333]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Just so you know that is partially incorrect. The initial press for quite a while was "we've started making new music and we hope stevie will join us" It wasn't until the album had an announced release date that Lindsey and Christine GRACIOUSLY changed their tune and said it had always been a duo album. They were trying to be kind to Stevie. Why, I dont know.

There was several months of press and interviews that stated it was hopefully, a fleetwood mac album in the works.

It's quite possible that Lindsey never did consider it a FM album. For years before the Buck/McVie project the group had been trying to persuade Stevie to record with them. In the end she recorded one song for the ep and I don't think that she even performed harmonies on the other tracks. She even said that she spent the day with Lindsey and his family and enjoyed working on the song. I do think that management, the record label, Mick, and fans had high hopes that it would be a FM record but that doesn't mean that Lindsey had a strong feeling that she was not going to participate. He even already had a good bit on the recording done waiting to see what happened. But, yes they minimized the project so not anger Stevie. I can see Mick being persistent that it not be called FM so they could keep the endless greatest hits gravy train a-rolling.

Could you imagine if they had to work in that stinker of a song Show Me The Way into the album without any editing?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by johnnystorms

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?

Except no one can quite agree that he kicked her on stage, not even Stevie.

[soul_drifter333]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

$he becomes more and more of a lying piece of garbage as times go on. More and more truth comes out and exposes what $he did. BuckVie was certainly the final straw for the jealous, petty, dishonest, egomaniac.

Especially after she was called out for the so called get well letter she personally sent to Lindsey that never got sent. You can see how she is struggling to keep the story straight. Again, I don't think she expected so many people to be interested in whether she wished him well or not. Sometimes, OK many times, she would better to keep her mouth shut but then she has a project to promote so...

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by John Run

It does show that Fleetwood Mac used semantics to frame their truth which had some significant factual omissions

Of course there were omissions. I’m sure legal was all over what they could and could not say. Except for Stevie botching the time frame, what they actually said wasn’t a lie.

(Not anticipating they would have to pay him north of $10 million for not playing with them)

LOL, you don’t think Irving didn’t realize they’d get sued? Fleetwood Mac isn’t the first band to fire a longstanding member. Hell, they’re not even the first band he manages that fired a longstanding member. They ALWAYS involve lawsuits. If you know you’re getting sued, you don’t show all your cards in interviews.

Lindsey is a different person than he was in 1987 that is for sure. He has mellowed and become sentimental for the art and people that shaped him.

I think once the catharsis of leaving the band wore off and OOTC flopped, he realized he needed them.

The driving factor to come back is not the money

Yeah, it’s the glory. Playing GYOW in front of 20,000 people in an arena is a way bigger rush than 1500 in a theater.

(Hell if you believe Celebrity Net Worth, Lindsey is the wealthiest member of Fleetwood Mac. CNW is not a demonstrably accurate source, but it gives you an idea that his financial situation is quite stable)

Yeah, they said a friend of mine was a multimillionaire. He’s absolutely not.

There are the same 2 or 3 posters who repeatedly twist themselves into physically and mentally impossible contortions to defend Stevie's role in this process or to maintain their anti-Buckingham positions, and it is futile to respond. Again, it is the same 2 or 3 people and some once respected posters are now nothing more than shadow puppets who enjoy seeing people react to their written gymnastics.

Or, maybe we take things said in interviews at the time into the equation instead of relying solely on a lawsuit. Wouldn’t want to have “significant factual omissions” now, would we?

Between that interview Mick did in 2017 where he talked about he and Stevie were planning on doing deep cuts and Lindsey’s comments on the Classic shows, I suspected trouble was possibly on the horizon, but what do I know?

Brett specifically notes that John McVie didn't want the change.

That’s assuming you have the right “it that he was referencing. “She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band. It wasn’t John McVie.” I read that as being about doing the songs from the other eras of the band and not relying on prerecords (her 24KG model, but with Fleetwood Mac).

Mick has great survival instincts. He sees the trend.

Mick also said that the band is more functional because of the changes they made. Now, maybe he’s open to working with Lindsey again outside of Fleetwood Mac, like he recently did with Rick Vito and Bekka Bramlett.

[michelej1]

Eh, Lindsey has a smirky face. He’s a smirker. Or he was thinking smirky things. I suspect him of smirking. But he wasn’t dancing like the other two.

Stevie always said Lindsey had more money than the rest of them, as a producer. Probably another reason she hates him.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

ah ah ah, Don't forget Soldier's Angel. When shippers had them getting married because he guested on that song.

Hey I had that one in there!!

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by jmn3

Hey I had that one in there!!

oooppppssss.

[michelej1]

I remember going to a Lindsey show, not sure where but I think Orange county. His 2 kids came onstage and he asked Kristin where Stella was and she said Stella was asleep and Brett went back stage and he brought Stella out. I guess he woke her up. She was about 3. So cute.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Eh, Lindsey has a smirky face. He’s a smirker. Or he was thinking smirky things. I suspect him of smirking. But he wasn’t dancing like the other two.

Stevie always said Lindsey had more money than the rest of them, as a producer. Probably another reason she hates him.

Lindsey also didn't have to put half his fortunes up his nose and subsequently reahab. So there's that lol.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by soul_drifter333

If you go back and watch the ugly interview they first did on CBS This Morning, Mick said that Lindsey refused to sign the contract, so someone is lying and we now know that it was Mick...I wouldn't be surprised to hear that their management (Irvin Azoff) played a HUGE part in the lies and convincing them it could work without Lindsey and the financial trouble they would be in if they cancelled the tour, but at this point they were in too deep.

Part of my theory all along has been Azoff was a part of the decision from the outset. I think the decision to fire Lindsey was made during that contentious November meeting. I don’t think Azoff gave Stevie’s manager Lindsey’s request to do solo shows on the off days because they had already made their decision. I think the whole MusiCares story is crap. At most, it only reinforced their decision.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jmn3

And even so, given that SHE DELAYED A FLEETWOOD MAC TOUR HERSELF IN 2012 FOR HER SOLO WORK, the hypocrisy is as thick as mud. Why is it okay for Stevie to delay a tour and not Lindsey? Where is that question thrown back at her? What would her answer be?

Barbara Nicks died on December 28, 2011. Can anyone blame her for not being ready to jump back into the drama that is Fleetwood Mac that soon after her mother died? Mick’s Playboy interview was just 80 days later.

[wilsonmac]

Originally Posted by elle

yes, and in one of the interviews the other day, Stevie said she made 24k gold because "Fleetwood Mac was on hiatus" so she had nothing better to do with her time. meanwhile, the other 4 were recording in the studio, and begging her to come to the studio with them, and Mick was giving interviews saying how he was hoping that her stint will be short and she will rejoin them in the studio.

but everyone here was conveniently citing some imaginary "contractual obligation" that she supposedly had to fill.

it's nice to see truth coming out these days.

and people still not acknowledging it is also interesting to see. not surprising.

Agreed. In my opinion, all of what we are witnessing now was due to the making of Buck McVie. Her refusal to commit rightfully angered Lindsey and the rest of the band members and led to what we are witnessing today. I think Stevie refused because she had zero material to contribute. Alot try to make the excuse that she didn't want to work with Lindsey. I don't buy that.