Carol Ann Harris

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by michelej1

What do you mean what's my source? I'm not relaying backstage gossip. I'm talking about interviews Stevie has given. Michele

I'm sorry if asking for sources sounded more aggressive than I meant it. I do a lot of work for academics and publishers and it just means 'what are you basing your opinion on?' to me. I really do have an open mind on most things, but I guess sometimes it must come over like a challenge rather than a request?

Thanks for taking the time to bring some quotes. I respect that (and feel respected by it) so much, it's completely pathetic, and when I don't have so much work to do I'll be back to the Blue Letter Archives and on YouTube trying to work out my new 'policy paper' on all of this!

You'll see in my other reply to Nikolaj where I'm at now, with it. Hope that's ok.

Cheerie,
Loz

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by David

There was no Les Paul onstage in 1980.

What about Mary Ford?

And I wish I could see that Stevie dance
that Lindsey did.


I haven't read all the post in this thread,
so is the guitar throwing story in Harris'
book? POV are so enlightening.

[Nikolaj]

Originally Posted by jellyman10

Don't worry, it's all good, Nikolaj. I've been sleeping, that's all! I live in Scotland and it was gone 1.00 a.m. when I last posted (now about 6.30 a.m. and the first thing is, I'm back on the Ledge, ha ha).

Has Michele changed my mind? No, not really, regarding my original assertion that, taken over the whole piece, both LB and SN are very careful about what they say about the day of the argument in 1987. It could just be that our judgement of what 'careful' means doesn't agree, but I still think they talk around it, and that that's deliberate.

Has Michele changed my mind about whether SN has embellished and changed the guitar-chucking episode? Yes, I think so. And I also think that she's absolutely right to bring up that the state of SN-FM relations colours what she says.

Two other wee points: I think the HSML dance is sexy, too. And I'm a woman. (I registered when I was trolleyed one night listening to Tusk, used a name that's a private joke and now have to live my whole Ledgie life with it! )

Thanks, Miss/Ms. Jellyman for the very nice reply and clarifications. I'm glad you knew there was an attempt at humor in what I wrote.
Of course, your points are beautifully stated and very interesting, and hot dang, there's another good writer to enjoy on The Ledge. There's quite a number of exceptionally interesting bardscribes here.
So, you were "trolleyed" were you? I love that! Never heard the term before, but it requires no translation! More, please.
I am so sorry I called you 'Mister', yikes. I'm on a Mister kick, lately. I should stop.
Oh, and, you wrote 'the first thing is, I'm back on The Ledge'-- that's a really good sign- your life is over! Kidding of course, see it's 4:57 a.m. as I type. Some of us go to bed when others like you wake up at 6:30 am, others never seem to sleep...except when I drone on. I know, hard to imagine, but it's happened.
Oh, ok, ok, it was sexy, already! Everybody says so! What was I thinking?

[CADreaming]

You know, not to start anything, but Lindsey kicks at Stevie even now. She just keeps her distance, stays on her side of the stage. Smart gal.



(see 4:20's for kicking action)

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

Thanks, Miss/Ms. Jellyman for the very nice reply and clarifications. I'm glad you knew there was an attempt at humor in what I wrote.
Of course, your points are beautifully stated and very interesting, and hot dang, there's another good writer to enjoy on The Ledge. There's quite a number of exceptionally interesting bardscribes here.
So, you were "trolleyed" were you? I love that! Never heard the term before, but it requires no translation! More, please.
I am so sorry I called you 'Mister', yikes. I'm on a Mister kick, lately. I should stop.
Oh, and, you wrote 'the first thing is, I'm back on The Ledge'-- that's a really good sign- your life is over! Kidding of course, see it's 4:57 a.m. as I type. Some of us go to bed when others like you wake up at 6:30 am, others never seem to sleep...except when I drone on. I know, hard to imagine, but it's happened.
Oh, ok, ok, it was sexy, already! Everybody says so! What was I thinking?

Thank you very much, Nikolaj. I always like to read your posts - even the 'droning' ones.

Here's to many more good discussions and laughs in future here.

Loz

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by jellyman10

I'm a woman. (I registered when I was trolleyed one night listening to Tusk, used a name that's a private joke and now have to live my whole Ledgie life with it! )

Glad you cleared that up. I thought you were a man also. We just found out this week that MacShadowsBall is a man also. I totally thought he was a woman.

[David]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

I believe Lindsey did kick Stevie, did throw a guitar at her, no matter if it was a Les Paul or not,

Why didn't the 1990 book (which was the very first mention ever of the New Zealand incident) mention the guitar being thrown?

It certainly wasn't because Mick & Stephen Davis were holding back.

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by vivfox

Glad you cleared that up. I thought you were a man also. We just found out this week that MacShadowsBall is a man also. I totally thought he was a woman.

I know, usernames can be confusing, or just daft in my case. Anyway, yes, female I am indeed.

I'm totally gonna pimp my profile when I get a minute, too. I love all the pics and gifs and all that.

Loz

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

I believe one of those Down Under Tusk shows featured a drunken Lindsey who did a Stevie dance with his jacket during "Rhiannon." I believe Christine's corroboration of the anger the band all felt about it because it embarrassed all of them. Stuff like that probably happened more than once during the heavy touring years. It happens in other bands regularly, so why shouldn't it happen in Fleetwood Mac?

But throwing a guitar at the sexy lead singer? Rolling Stone would have written that up in Random Notes way back in 1980!

I think Lindsey threw a guitar at her, but not on stage. The reason I think it happened is that during the SYW tour when they did the Mojo interview one of them outright said to the other, "Remember when you threw that Les Paul at me?" Now, the way the article was written, you couldn't tell if Stevie or Lindsey was speaking. But I assume it was Stevie. The Mojo writer also didn't say what the other person's response was. However, if Stevie asked Lindsey in front of a reporter if he remembered throwing a guitar at her, I guess it probably happened.

I don't think it happened on stage though, because, as you said, it would have been in the press. Mick said that in New Zealand the audience thought what Lindsey did was part of the show. But if he'd thrown a guitar at her, I think it would have earned a mention in the media.

In 1997 she said to Rolling Stone,

That wasn't the only psychodrama Australia would see; one evening, as Nicks performed her patented witchy dance on "Rhiannon," twirling under her hooded poncho, Buckingham wrenched his jacket over his head and began dancing in a crude, crowlike imitation of her. "Lindsey was angry - just mad at me," recalls Nicks. "That wasn't a one-time thing. Lindsey and I had another huge thing that happened onstage in New Zealand. We had some kind of a fight, and he came over - might have kicked me, did something to me, and we stopped the show. He went off, and we all ran at breakneck speed back to the dressing room to see who could kill him first. Christine got to him first, and then I got to him second - the bodyguards were trying to get in the middle of all of us."

So, years later she said he threw a guitar at her and aside from the fact that I don't think it happened on stage in New Zealand, I also don't believe she was able to duck and avoid it. The whole scenario made me conclude she had been watching too many ninja movies.

Crouching Stevie Hidden Gibson.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

What about Mary Ford?

And I wish I could see that Stevie dance
that Lindsey did.


I haven't read all the post in this thread,
so is the guitar throwing story in Harris'
book? POV are so enlightening.

No, not in Carol's book. Although Carol has her own guitar story. She says Lindsey was going to teach Stevie how to play GYOW (I think) and Stevie got jealous of Carol and couldn't concentrate. Stevie and Lindsey fought and Stevie stalked off in a huff.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

You know, not to start anything, but Lindsey kicks at Stevie even now. She just keeps her distance, stays on her side of the stage. Smart gal.

I questioned the wisdom of Lindsey swinging his amplifier cord at Stevie during the SYW tour. He wasn't doing it to menace her, but I'm not sure why he was doing it. It stopped towards the end of the tour.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

I was wrong to say I thought SN looked silly, like she was dusting an enormous, invisible Wardrobe and it looked like she was going to spray the scarf with Lemon Pledge any second. But she never wanted to be a cleaning lady, she wanted to be a star, I forgot.
Imagine how I feel, I was so sure.

Staged gestures can hit or miss. Probably the most sexy is the spontaneous moments. The BTM made me think of the SYW dance and the little lasso move. How quaint and unnatural it looks. But it was fun at the time.

Of course, I've a great bias in favor of HSML anyway. I love the part where she's saying it's me that's talking to you in the still of the night, it's always me, so by the time she gets to the scarf dance, I'm already thinking sultry. That no doubt lends to the scarf perceptions.
Michele

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I compared that to her descriptions of the earlier New Zealand incidents where she said he kicked her or something (in the earlier interviews October 30, 1997 Rolling Stone, she didn't remember exactly what he did, but said he must have kicked her or something) and then around the time of SYW she started adding to that description and said that he threw a guitar at her on stage in New Zealand and she ducked and that's why it missed her. Her version of the New Zealand incident has gained more details over time.

Mick describes also that episode in his book. He also kind of justifies the behavior:

In mid-March we flew off to New Zealand to play in front of sixty thousand fans in Auckland. The show also went out live over the radio to the rest of the country. By then, the exhaustion of constant travel began to set in, and we were all pretty brainfried. Lindsey hit the old scotch bottle a little too hard before the concert, and halfway through the performance he snapped like a guitar string tuned ten octaves too high. First I noticed that he was playing out of tune.
Then he started to clown around and mimic Stevie while she was dancing around the stage. Then, while she was hunched over, upstage of Lindsey, during her "Rhiannon" performance, he stopped playing and pulled his jacket over his head in a grotesque imitation of her pose. At that point he lost all control, playing anything except "Rhiannon," laughing like a madman. Then he started to kick Stevie while she was trying to salvage the number. Sixty thousand people were watching! Lindsey would flick his foot at her and Stevie would shy away, trying to cover up his stoned-out behavior to save us all from dying of embarrassment. The rest of the band could only look at each other in disbelief.

The show finally over, we stumbled into the stadium's rugby changing rooms, where we were dressing. There would be no encore that night: we were all freaked out. I could hear the crowd screaming for more as Christine McVie stormed into the room, utterly hell-bent, and made straight for Mr. Buckingham, who was slumped miserably on a bench. Lindsey stood up, and Chris smacked him crack! right in the face. Then she threw her drink at him for good measure. "Don't you ever do this to this band again," she shouted. "Ever! Is that clear?" Then she stormed out again.

Silence. Then someone pulled on my sleeve to tell me I had to go on live radio ta say a few words and I'm completely traumatised! They shoved me into a trailer and started to ask questions. I dreaded talking about the incident with Lindsey, but it turned out they either didn't notice it or thought
his behavior was part of the act, or just a joke.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Then he started to kick Stevie while she was trying to salvage the number. Sixty thousand people were watching! Lindsey would flick his foot at her and Stevie would shy away, trying to cover up his stoned-out behavior to save us all from dying of embarrassment.

Is this also the supposed guitar flinging/throwing/almost killing Stevie incident?

Mick or the ghostwriter did a great job of embellishing, I think. Seems like Lindsey was "flicking" his foot at her - not actually kicking her. Just like the video I posted, he still kicks his foot at her. It's part of his schtick. She points at him angrily and he kicks his foot.



If he would only do his Rhiannon dance now, my life would be complete. He already does an excellent version of lip synching Stand Back. I think Lindsey is really one chiffon dress away from headlining Night of a Thousand Stevies.

[mezzoforte]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Is this also the supposed guitar flinging/throwing/almost killing Stevie incident?

Mick or the ghostwriter did a great job of embellishing, I think. Seems like Lindsey was "flicking" his foot at her - not actually kicking her. Just like the video I posted, he still kicks his foot at her. It's part of his schtick. She points at him angrily and he kicks his foot.

Mick's version of the kicking incident is actually very consistent with Carol Ann's book, from what I remember. Carol Ann didn't actually witness it (she missed the Australian tour--illness, I think), but Sara Recor (later Fleetwood), her best friend, called Carol to explain how Lindsey fell apart and turned violent on stage. The story was essentially identical to Mick's. Neither of them made it sound like it was a casual flicking thing, as in the video. I'd type it up, but the book's at my parents' house.

I don't think anyone but Stevie has talked about a guitar incident, though. I think Michele's idea has legs: he may have thrown the guitar, just not on stage at that particular concert. If it happened, it would have been a totally different incident.