Please read - Possible Release of Fleetwood Mac Videos on DVD...

[Josh2003]

A few more things I just thought of.

While I love the songs John included on his list, I'd hate to see so many of the live clips be from that same LA show. I think it would be a better idea if we could have a wider variety of shows represented. But we have to go with what we have in the vaults.

Also, why not include some newer footage? Some of the live shots could be from The Dance, too. I know, its already available on DVD, but if we want to make this a real anthology type of thing, we need some newer stuff in there too. So that's why I like John's idea of including the Clinton inauguration, Brit awards, or even the Hall of Fame induction.

Just some thoughts...

[Les]

I think this might help. The total time required to show all of the 'concept videos' is about 56 minutes. These would include:

1. Tusk (3:30)
2. Hold Me ((3:57)
3. Gypsy (4:12)
4. Big Love (3:57)
5. Seven Wonders (3:38)
6. Family Man (4:00?)*
7. Little Lies (3:34)
8. Everywhere (3:41)
9. As Long As You Follow (4:07)
10. Save Me (4:14)
11. Skies the Limit (3:42)
12. In the Back of My Mind (4:59)
13. Paper Doll (3:56)
14. Love Shines (4:10)

*This Family Man video is a little bit of a mystery. I'm not clear on whether this was a "real" video or if it was something that MTV Europe threw together (since it never aired in the US). I noticed it's not on the WB vault list either, while all of the other videos are. That is what is making me wonder...)

Anyway, even if we stick with all 14 videos in order to have the complete video collection, that still leaves us with a good 35 minutes to fill if we're sticking to the lower limit of 90 minutes for the whole DVD. And why stick with the lower limit when there's a higher limit?

If we go with the higher limit of closer to 120 minutes (give or take), then we've still got another 65 minutes to fill.

If we remove Family Man if it's not "real" (for lack of a better term), we're down to closer to 50 minutes occupied, with a good 70 minutes still to fill.

If we decide to only focus on Rumours era, and subtract the last 6 videos from the list above, we're down to about 26 minutes occupied, with a good 90 minutes(!) still to fill.

So we've certainly got options here. I don't think this is a case of needing to go with only videos or only performances. There's a good deal of room for all of the videos and then a whole lot more.

[d2brian]

Perfect, Les.

I think the DVD should have all the videos no matter what, and then the additional live stuff could be added as needed.

~Brian

[wetcamelfood]

Great going Les!

I really would like to see all the music videos there and as there is more time left than I thought, I guess the live stuff could come after those as a good compromise.

We could set up another poll but I don't honestly think the majority of people would want to buy some of the footage from "The dance" (or other things on commercially released DVD/VHS) again if they already have it and as the Clinton thing, Brit awards and Hall of fame stuff is from the dance era and most seem to be in agreement that these are of great historical value to the bands videography, should this be the live footage that could be tacked on to the end? (I know this would mean we would get the video of "Big love" as well as the hall of fame live version and 2 "Don't stop"s (Brit awards and Clinton) etc. but at least it would be more useful previously "unowned" disc (or new VHS) footage for our collections. If we can narrow down to what particular live footage should be tacked on to the end, we would then be well on our way to having a good complete list ready for Ken and Marty which we really do need to get together soon. Let's see...

Don't stop (Clinton)
Don't stop (Brit awards)
Go your own way (Brit awards)
Big love (Hall of fame)
Landslide (Hall of fame)
Say you love me (Hall of fame)

I doubt that this adds up to more than 30 minutes so plus the videos, there is still some time left for the two hour mark. Many people seem to like the idea of the Making of/outtakes/alternate footage for the music videos as the extras so I guess that would fill it up or come close anyways. Is this a fair time estimate and a fair content listing everyone?

In ducussions here with those that feel as though this should be a "mixture" collection, I think they would like the songwriters credits to be equal. If this could be accomodated on the live footage section of the release than that would be the answer but I can't figure a way to choose footage from the list and not chop up concert footage (which was the only reason I suggested all of that LA stuff because it would've been to our advantage at a later date as it was all listed seperately) which I'm sure not many people want to buy the same footage twice (that is if all goes well with this disc/tape and looking towards the future we get future releases of complete concert footage on video). By all means we can set up a poll on this very topic and if it turns out the majority wants to do it this way then so be it but until then is it safe to go under the assumption that the majority doesn't want to "duplicate"? I certainly don't want to but let's hear it if you do, if you don't say, we won't know that's how you feel out there.

Any ideas on this songwriting/chopping up dilema? (Hopefully if we can agree on this complete video (with extras) and live footage being from those three historic shows than this would make this alot easier for Ken to get the licensing and to do the sound. What do you think guys?

John

[Les]

I like the idea of not using the previously released stuff. I do have one thought though about using something like say, the Clinton Inauguration performance, just as an example, and that is that I'm not really sure that we'd then be selecting the best actual performance of Don't Stop to show, in what is essentially shaping up to be a retrospective. My thinking here is just that the sound system for that performance of Don't Stop wasn't very good, so would we want to include rarer material for the sake of it, or should we be looking for "best" performances?

Another issue about trying to not use previously released things is that the footage from different eras that is available to us then dwindles. Except for the Mirage Concert (which I think "Live in LA" must be raw footage of), I don't see anything else on the WB list that resembles Mirage era live performances. And except for the Tusk Documentary, I'm not sure what's available from the Tusk era. So would we just skip any live footage from those eras if what's available is only previously released material?

If we had some way of knowing what some of the things on the list were -- like "Fleetwood Mac Live," "Fleetwood Mac Concert/The Company," "Fleetwood Mac on Tour," etc... -- it would solve some problems. But we don't.

We do have a lot of time left over to intersperse live performance footage with the videos in order to try to even out the equal representation issue and to try provide a greatest hits selection through the different eras. But based on what is in the WB vault, some of these performances, if not many of them, may be things some of us have already seen somewhere before. So I guess the question is -- is that bad? Are we looking for greatest hits? Are we looking for rare performances even if they're not the best performances? Can we do a little of both -- take some familiar footage, some rarer footage to cover all bases?

Take this list for example (which is a mild variation on something Johnny Stew posted earlier):

1. Over My Head (Midnight Special) ~3:45
2. Rhiannon (Rosebud) 6:52
3. I’m So Afraid (Rosebud) 5:02
4. Say You Love Me (Rosebud) 3:55
5. World Turning (Midnight Special) ~6:00?
6. Go Your Own Way (Rosebud) 3:32
7. Dreams (Paris Promo) 4:19
8. Don’t Stop (Paris Promo) ~4:00
9. You Make Loving Fun (Japan) 3:45
10. The Chain (Mirage Concert) 5:45
11. Tusk (video) 3:30
12. Sara (Tusk Doc) 4:08
13. Not That Funny (Tusk Doc) 2:10
14. Sisters of the Moon (Mirage) 7:45
15. Hold Me (video) 3:57
16. Gypsy (video) 4:12
17. Eyes of the World (Mirage) 3:45
18. Big Love (video) 3:57
19. Seven Wonders (video) 3:38
20. Little Lies (video) 3:34
21. Everywhere (video) 3:41
22. As Long As You Follow (video) 4:07
23. Save Me (video) 4:14
24. Skies the Limit (video) 3:42
25. In the Back of My Mind (video) 4:59
26. Paper Doll (video) 3:56
27. Love Shines (video) 4:10
28. Silver Springs (Dance) 5:45
29. Bleed to Love Her (Dance) 3:14
30. Landslide (Dance) 3:50

McVie: 12 songs (incl. World Turning)
Nicks: 9 songs
Buckingham: 9 songs (incl. World Turning & The Chain – as he’s lead singer, sort of)

For the record, this list is too long - it's about 135 minutes worth of material. Who knows how much it would cost to license this many different performances or if we even could get all of them. But this is just an example of something like a greatest hits type of package, arranged chronilogically (more or less), with a lot of previously seen footage. We would have to subtract a few things and could make subtitutions for different, rarer performances, or different songs by the singer ...

What are your reactions to this kind of list?

As I think someone stated previously, maybe it would be an option to simply submit a list to Ken of the videos and then also a list of the songs we'd like to see live performance footage of and then let him pick the performances, since he might have a slightly better idea of what is on some of these videos in the vault.

As I think someone stated previously, maybe it would be an option to simply submit a list to Ken of the videos and then also a list of the songs we'd like to see live performance footage of and then let him pick the performances, since he might have a slightly better idea of what is on some of these videos in the vault. [/B][/QUOTE]

Being that there is room left over after adding the concept videos, may we should make a small list of Live material we would like to see?
I noticed about 2 or 3 peformances of Rhiannon, and a couple of other songs on the "Vaults" list, perhaps Marty or Ken can clearify as to where these songs were peformed at, to get an idea if we seen it before or not.

[Rumours]

Great list Les.....albeit a long list......but great!!!
You, Lori, Joe........I think you're on to something.........we've got a lot more time and space than originally thought now.........use all the concept videos, then in the plenty of remaining time and space, we could make a list of what live footage and making of/extra bonus footage we would like to see, and Ken could pick the best ones or the "most favorite ones as voted by the fans"..........
And also, so what if it's a little more heavily weighed toward Christine--her songs were the ones chosen for a good deal of the singles, so obviously her songs are going to be represented more.......but I just don't see why that matters as far as videos are concerned, especially the concept videos--the entire band is in the video, so they are all represented, and they are all there, no matter which of the three songwriter's song it is........don't cut good videos or live footage out just because oh well it's a Christine song and she's too over-represented........

Stephanie

[watchdevil]

Hi everyone.. I'm an old shoe in Stevie / Fleetwood Mac Circles but just new to posting to this message board...

The petition is a great idea. There are so many worthy Fleetwood Mac videos that need to be complied and released on DVD.

Basically I believe every single one of the promo videos for all the Fleetwood Mac singles NEEDS to be released on DVD. They all seem lost to me.. Of course I have many of them that I taped off MTV and VH1 but they are not the best quality and of course when you are taping you always miss a part or cut it off. They need to be permanetly preserved as a DVD video release. This extended to all of Stevie's solo videos as well.

Also, Tango In The Night Live Tour video should be released.

What else... The Tusk Tour Documentary, The Rosebud videos.. ah the Rosebud videos.. they have to be released! Nothing beats watching that version of Stevie doing Rhiannon! What about the one she did for Midnight Special too!

There's also the Mirage Concert footage that needs to be included..

I feel so much material is going to be lost of it is not released on a compilation of DVD videos. There is nothing I would enjoy better than all these videos on DVD because you have instant access to each song and video without having to search, fast forward and rewind to find the many different things that I have personally recorded to VHS tape.

DVD is the only format for the future.

I just want to say I love my Rumours 5.1 DVD-A.. I am however dissapointed that the players for DVD-Audio 5.1 are so expensive and hard to find. I had to settle for a regular DVD player with CD/CDR/CDRW playback capability. I still feel like I am missing somthing by not bein able to enjoy the full 5.1 surrround sound. But the quality of the stereo track versions are incredible as well. My only misgiving about the DVD-Audio release is that I wish there was some way it could be played in a standard CD player as well. The only way I was able to overcome this is to record from DVD player to CDR using analog inputs only. I could not duplicate digitally just so I could have a copy for my car's CD player.

Anyway lets keep ou fingers crossed that we will finally get something incredible for us all to enjoy! There is nothing short of death that would stop me from buying anything new that is released for my ultimate Stevie and Fleetwood Mac pleasure... there are few pleasures in life that feel as good as enjoying their music...

[Johnny Stew]

(Quick personal message:
Wow... Angelo/WatchDevil.... I used to be a VERY frequent visitor of your Stevie site, back around 1996. At some point, I lost the URL though, and was never able to find the site again.
I'm REALLY glad to see you here, posting with us.)



To everyone else:

Personally, i like the idea of rare, little-seen material... but i am also all for including the best performances of each song.
Like Les said, sure the Clinton Inaugural performance of "Don't Stop" is rare, but is it the best performance?
My answer is no.
So, in some cases we will probably end up using something from the Tusk Doc, or maybe even the Mirage concert.
(The other stumbling block, as Les said, is that we just plain don't know what's on some of these things!!! *lol*)


You have my word that we are seriously weighing every option, and listening to everyone's suggestions.
Hopefully we'll be able to come up with a track listing that is a respectable compromise between all the suggestions and opinions.


Also, just to let everyone know, we have every intention of using all the concept videos (we're still not sure on the "official" status of "Family Man" though, so we're going to check into that).
We're not going to drop any of those videos just because Christine has "too many songs."
She's definitely going to have more tracks than everyone else... that's a given. We're merely trying to make sure that Lindsey and Stevie have adequate representation as well.



Johnny Stew

[wetcamelfood]

I do love the Rumours DVD audio and all of that but well, maybe I'm alone on this too but I personally watch videos more for the video portion. If it has good audio, that's a real plus but what I mean by good sound is if we can hear it and enjoy it. If it's doing all of it's swirling around surround sound thing, I can take it or leave it (Ken will definately have a chance to play with that on the audio portion of the concept videos anyways as of course the audio portions of those are the original studio tracks) so I think it's better to take something from a TV performance or whatever rather than from the Tusk doc, Mirage tape (which we don't think we can use anything from anyways because of the HBO rights thing) or anything like that when maybe those could come out in full in the future. Yes, the sound quality may not be perfect, yes, the performance may not be as good but as fans, it will be better for our collections in the long run and the general public is not to know that this is not the best performance of the song available. That's an opinion thing anyways. The everyday buyer may prefer the Clinton "Don't stop" (for instance) even if we don't think it's the best version. It would be up to 5.1 Entertainment anyways but they may want to play up the fact that the versions of some of those performances are from those shows so the general public may read the box and think "wow, I like that version, I remember seeing that on TV, I think I'll get it" as oppossed to "Oh it's got the Mirage tape version, I think I've got that kicking around the attic somewhere, oh I don't want to buy it again". As long as the units get sold, this is what could matter in getting future releases. If we do plan to get other stuff released in the future we have to think ahead and think in the same ruthless way they do. A customer can't return something because he/she doesn't think the performance is the best the band has ever done. Once they get your money, they aren't broken up over the fact that your disapointed over the product.

It's good we seem to agree on the idea that all the FM music vids should be there and for those wanting the mixture, the compromise of having some live stuff in there with the remaining time is going smoothly too, we just need to decide on what live stuff to put on it. I agree that those are great performances from Rosebud, Midnight special, etc. but I would hope that we could get those complete films released on future discs (or put the complete footage from those on this one) rather than just use some parts of them here just to buy them again in their entirety later but it doesn't seem like many wish to do this so I just hope we can come up with something that won't make us buy the same material too often and chop up concerts you know pieces of it on this release, pieces of the same show on that release. I can't be the only one out there thinking this way. I hope not anyways!

John

[nodmod]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Let's see...

Don't stop (Clinton)
Don't stop (Brit awards)
Go your own way (Brit awards)
Big love (Hall of fame)
Landslide (Hall of fame)
Say you love me (Hall of fame)

John

I love the idea of all the videos and the above list from the awards shows and The Clinton thing, speaking from a UK / European perspective many of us have never seen the Don't Show performance for the Clinton thing or the Hall Of Fame performance

With that we could still do the extras

Making Of the Gypsy video
Making of the Big Love video
Alternate Seven Wonders video
and the outtakes for Hold Me + others if they exist

I am now getting really excited about this possible release

[Skylark]

Hi John...Les and Johnny Stew...
Thank you so much for all your hard work on our behalf! I understand what you mean about Mirage and Tusk!!! However...some ppl may not own these works! Newer fans missed so much! Don't you think Clinton is five minutes of old news?The Dance ...Don't Stop... is excellent quality Mac Music!
You know what performance surprise I'd be thrilled to see? When Lindsey showed up on stage in 1990 and played guitar with the guys...he has on a pinkish shirt and a tie and he looks like he has suffered! One other thing... Don't forget Lindsey's videos if you include Stevies personal videos!Pretty Please! Thanks!!!
Luv Ya', ~Sky~

(These are just my silly comments... I bow to you guys as the experts on this DVD stuff!)

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Personally, i like the idea of rare, little-seen material... but i am also all for including the best performances of each song.
Like Les said, sure the Clinton Inaugural performance of "Don't Stop" is rare, but is it the best performance?
My answer is no.
Johnny Stew [/B]

I have to agree with Johnny on that one. Some of the stuff is rare, but not the "best"

I would hope most of the live stuff on the DVD is earlier unseen performance's , rather then post-Mirage stuff. Seeing the band perform during there hey day would be great!

[Jo and Jensen]

Les, I love..absolutely LOVE your latest list. At the end of your post you said it was too long though. So I just copied your list and placed astrics next to the ones that I think the basic music fan would NOT want to see.

1. Over My Head (Midnight Special) ~3:45
2. Rhiannon (Rosebud) 6:52
3. I’m So Afraid (Rosebud) 5:02
4. Say You Love Me (Rosebud) 3:55
5. World Turning (Midnight Special) ~6:00?
6. Go Your Own Way (Rosebud) 3:32
7. Dreams (Paris Promo) 4:19
8. Don’t Stop (Paris Promo) ~4:00
9. You Make Loving Fun (Japan) 3:45
10. The Chain (Mirage Concert) 5:45
11. Tusk (video) 3:30
12. Sara (Tusk Doc) 4:08
13. Not That Funny (Tusk Doc) 2:10
14. Sisters of the Moon (Mirage) 7:45
15. Hold Me (video) 3:57
16. Gypsy (video) 4:12
17. Eyes of the World (Mirage) 3:45
18. Big Love (video) 3:57
19. Seven Wonders (video) 3:38
20. Little Lies (video) 3:34
21. Everywhere (video) 3:41 *********
22. As Long As You Follow (video) 4:07
23. Save Me (video) 4:14 *********
24. Skies the Limit (video) 3:42 **********
25. In the Back of My Mind (video) 4:59 *********
26. Paper Doll (video) 3:56
27. Love Shines (video) 4:10
28. Silver Springs (Dance) 5:45
29. Bleed to Love Her (Dance) 3:14
30. Landslide (Dance) 3:50

First of all, Everywhere was weird and the Mac isn't even really in it. Save Me, Skies The Limit, and In the Back of My Mind are all songs off the Behind the Mask album and do not involve LB. I think though since As Long As You Follow was from the Greatest Hits album it should be included along with Love Shines and Paper Doll because that is FMs Box Set.

This running list would keep attention too, and that is what we are really going for.

P.S. I agree with those who commented that the Clinton Don't Stop should be left off. Even Ken said in his Q&A that they didn't look nor sound too good!

[Les]

I'm certainly not opposed to using rarer footage at all. And that's a very good point about how some of these performances have not been available to anyone outside of the US.

I guess what I'd like to ask then is if those of you who favor rare footage could look through the list and see if you can find things that we might include and maybe see if you can track down some times for those segments. There've been some good suggestions so far with Clinton's Inauguration, the Brits, Hall of Fame, etc..

I think the things that Johnny Stew and I have been trying to keep in mind are getting a selection of a few songs from each era (so that there's not a huge collection of performances from any one show or album in particular). And we're trying to keep the numbers relatively equitable between the singers . . . though I'm sure Christine will always have the most given her dominance in the concept video area.

Without knowing what is on some of these tapes, it's a little bit hard to know what the WB has that we haven't seen. . . . . Again, maybe a mixture of the videos, some "greatest hits" performances, and some rarer performances of songs could be a way to deal with this?? It seems like we've got space for quite a lot. Just keep the 120 minute limit in the back of your mind.

Several of you have mentioned some "Making of" footage. I'm not sure if this is available to us or not. There's almost nothing like that on WB's vault list, which is why I'm wondering...

A big thank you to everyone who is participating in this!