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#1021
02-15-2014, 06:19 PM
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I loved all these things too… The whole what a loving/loyal boyfriend thing, especially- he's just turning the screw- and then acts totally innocent when she calls him on it. 
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#1022
02-15-2014, 06:20 PM
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#1023
02-15-2014, 06:24 PM
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agree that it's not much use discussing what's better or more enjoyable, we all like different things. while someone like SteveMacD or i would rather skip the ramble, you are right - your preferences fit in the romantic intimacy thread, ours don't. plus vivfox is right too - i wouldn't be bothered nearly as much if Lindsey was the one doing the rambling.  unfortunately it's a fact that they wouldn't change or add more songs instead of 10-minute ramble, but that's the first thing that came to my mind every time i was at the show and WY intro started. can't help it, whether or not you don't like my expressing that. 
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 "kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
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#1024
02-15-2014, 06:31 PM
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  yeah i think he called her passive aggressive for not saying anything through like 40 shows and finally blowing the lid. 
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"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
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#1025
02-15-2014, 09:54 PM
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S: Yes! Please! Jump in! L: Say something. Let's see. *pause* Sure was hot today. I took a walk; I had to put a T-shirt on S: And that is outrageous! Quote:
 And you're quite right, my preferences do fit rather well in this thread. SHOCKING NEWS.Quote:
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S: You're right. They needed a smokin' hot, fantastic lead guitarist. Ta da! And I magically pulled him out of my pocket. And I said, "Well, that's true." And so the whole story wraps around to this - and if Lindsey wants to speak, he will - I like to tell this story because I really do want to- He's backing away! He's backing away. I like to say thank you, Lindsey, for telling Mick when he called and asked you to join Fleetwood Mac - thank you for saying whatever it is that you said. Which, would you like to step up to the mic and finish the story? Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Lindsey Buckingham. L: Me? You want me to talk? S: Yeah. I'd like you to say something. L: *pondering* Say something S: Nice. *laughs* L: That's very difficult for me. *S laughs* Right? *L laughs* *clears throat* Okay, well, let's see. Yes, it's true, it's absolutely true. Mick had heard a song of ours. And their guitarist left and I got a phone call. I did not, I'd only met Mick once very briefly. And he said, "Lindsey, it's Mick Fleetwood." "Hi, Mick." "Lindsey, would you like to join Fleetwood Mac?" And, of course, what did I say? What did I say? I said, "If you're going to take me, Mick, you gotta take my girlfriend too!!!" And that, Stevie, *voice gets deeper* baby, that is loooooove. S: Can I just add, in Stuttgart, to that little story since you do like to throw that in, that for five years previous to that I washed your jeans, sewed moons and stars on them, fringed them, ironed your T-shirts- L: This is a new, uh- S: made your house beautiful, cooked dinner, cleaned the house, was a waitress AND a cleaning lady, and also *voice gets softer* loved you. L: That's right. S: So, it wasn't just a one-sided deal. L: Did I say it was? S: Nooooo, but it kinda comes across like thaaat... We're letting you in to the seriousness of this whole thing. L: So, all this time- S: I don't think they really want to come in here. L: All this time, I've been saying "that's love, baby" you've been going "*sniffs* Hmph". S: Kind of. *laughs* L: I can't win! Geez! I did. I loved you with all my heart- S: I know. L: -didn't I? S: Yes, you did. L: And you loved me too. S: And I did. And that's why we went together into Fleetwood Mac. L: That's right.
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"There’s nothing going on between you and me except that there will always be something going on between you and me. Until the day we die"
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#1026
02-15-2014, 10:55 PM
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Can't complain, standing in the Bel Air rain. Michele
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#1027
02-15-2014, 11:31 PM
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 lol re t-shirt. of course, that day in Dublin, according to those gorgeous pics of LB hanging out with Madness, it was so cold that he not only had his hole-y t-shirt on but also a jacket and another coat over it, when he went out for a walk.
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"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
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#1028
02-15-2014, 11:57 PM
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I found a fanfiction called "the proposal" that focuses mainly on John and Christine getting back together. But there is some intimacy moments between Lindsey and Stevie. It was very awkward for me to read, but I'm sure some of you would like it
 . I can't quote it here because its too inappropriate and I think the story is copyrighted. If you're under 18 DON'T read.http://www.mediafire.com/view/jp06v7...e+Proposal.doc Last edited by singertobe; 02-16-2014 at 12:47 AM..
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02-16-2014, 12:01 AM
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This message has been deleted by singertobe.
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#1029
02-16-2014, 12:48 AM
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__________________
It's just a time, within a time Just a scheme, within a scheme A little world, within a world Just a dream, just a dream.
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#1030
02-16-2014, 12:54 AM
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 Wait, was that in response to my post? If it was, that's the same face I had when I read it
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#1031
02-16-2014, 06:22 AM
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I Know I'm Not Wrong (haha, just playing, I could not resist! )I don't read fan fiction (or any fiction for that matter), only because I like dealing with reality.. like anything else, I'm sure some is good and some is not so good, but didn't check out the link to see.
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#1032
02-16-2014, 07:12 AM
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As for the matter of joining FM or not, he approaches talking about it differently than Stevie. She generally likes to do her 'LINDSEY regrets joining cos we probably would've stayed in SF, got married, had kids' spiel and occasionally throws in a 'and sometimes I think we may have as well' type sentiment. Lindsey, on the other hand, doesn't mention it as much: 1992 "And there are times I wonder what would have happened if, say Stevie and I had continued on whatever path we were on, with that little cult thing going on down South." 2003 The closing, six million dollar question goes to Lindsey Buckingham. And, to his credit, he actually tries to answer it honestly. The question I put to him is this; which would he rather have saved - Fleetwood Mac or his relationship with Stevie? "Oh boy. What an interesting question. What a tough question" he says seemingly not quite sure how best to answer it. And then eventually: "I’m 53, with a beautiful wife and two beautiful children, so I can’t say that my life has gone any other way than the way it was supposed to." So destiny rules? I ask, name-checking one of those Stevie Nicks songs that sounds like it could be about him. Buckingham laughs. “Yes” 2011 "I spent a lot of time with Stevie when she was, uh, making her solo album this last year and we spent a lot of really nice quality time - I've known Stevie since I was in high school so, y'know, it's, uh, nice to think there might be a chapter of two left to play out." Mm. Professionally? "Yes." Yeah. "Absolutely." You know, when I sat down with Stevie, very much like this, in her home when her new album came out, she said this about you: she said, first of all that she loves you to death and you're the best of friends and she's so happy for you and your family and wife and she couldn't be happier. But she said this, she said that if she, if you guys had not left San Francisco and moved to Los Angeles that you would still be together, more than likely married, but that you would still be successful. "Mm." How do you feel about that? "Well, that's a nice thought. Uh, you know, it's so hard to second guess events that have transpired and what a different road might have meant. *edit cut* What did happen was meant to happen the way it did and I personally couldn't be happier with the way things have turned out."
__________________
"There’s nothing going on between you and me except that there will always be something going on between you and me. Until the day we die"
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#1033
02-16-2014, 07:23 AM
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Yes! And these are things which he is saying publicly… which is why I was so bold as to say just how sure I am about this.. Also, in a radio program I have from 2007, the interviewer lists all of the fortuitous events which have occurred in his life leading up to today… and does he ever wish/wonder if he'd taken an another road… He says the only thing he wonders about is joining FM. I think that says so much.. if he's willing to say that much publicly.
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#1034
02-16-2014, 02:18 PM
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She says he wouldn't have been so torn up about their break up if they hadn't been in the same band and she may know from experience. When she left him to move back up North and fell in love with someone, she doesn't say he was breaking her neck trying to get her back. Instead, I gather he was in Southern California, smoking and continuing to make music with Richard and figured Stevie would come back when she came back, wagging her tail behind her. The fact that he knew she was tired of working as a waitress and cleaning lady, but he still wouldn't agree to play steak houses tells me that he wasn't really that interested in doing just anything to keep her. If they worked steakhouses, at least their careers would have bound him to her and kept her at his side for the money, despite domestic conflicts, but he didn't want it that way. He was concerned with some sort of musical integrity without compromises even then. So, I think the idea of being in BN and making their own musical choices really appeals to him. On the other hand, I can't think of a lot of examples of duos that made it (of course there are Dave and Annie) and I think part of him wanted to "make it." I think he likes that he got to do Tusk. He likes that he got to spend 13 months and all of that money on Tusk. Even if he doesn't say he loved having money, the money that the first two albums brought him, I think he would admit loving to have the power that FM had to make Tusk come true. Today, with digital technology, it would not cost that much money to make Tusk, but back then it was a triumph and I think he was happy to be in a position to make that triumph happen, even if it means being saddled with "the big machine." So, I do imagine he wants to know how far BN would have gone, but unless they went nowhere and they gave up music and returned to northern California, I don't think he believes BN would have led to a future with Stevie. If they gave up music and started a family, yes, but if they continued on the BN path, they probably wouldn't have had the longevity as a pair of some kind that they have had in FM. Stevie wrote Kind of Woman about his temptations on the road, but men would have hit on her too, the more they performed and I think monogamy would have always been a struggle. Yes, everyone gets tamed and I think the life that Lindsey is living now is proof of that, as are the compromises that he makes musically which don't happen as grudgingly as they once did. Michele
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#1035
02-16-2014, 10:48 PM
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 Your post blew my mind. So, I wrote a book. Yes, I think he wonders more about Alabama than he does about him and Stevie, because he knows that he and Stevie had problems. If you're just sharing your opinion here - mine is that I think he wonders far more about the relationship than any commercial success as a duo in Alabama or elsewhere, and that it doesn't change his feelings at all that he and Stevie had problems. He thinks they might have worked them out, but she says that being in FM probably made them last longer than they otherwise would have and I think he probably realizes that too. He doesn't realize that, even now. As late as a 2013 interview- he acknowledges they had problems, but states the "catalyst" for their break up was joining Fleetwood Mac. He cites three issues in particular as follows and quoted- "If we had hypothetically remained as BN, there was a parallel thing that we had, I think our set of reference points as BN was far more similar than it became in Fleetwood Mac, so who is to say that that wouldn't have translated to an easier road for us to stay together as a couple? Another thing is Christine McVie was already on the outs with John McVie. They were married, and if Stevie had any of those thoughts, having another woman to corroborate with, I think either enlarged the sense of that being the road or accelerated it, one of the two, and then the last thing was Stevie's persona on stage was latched onto, and she was in a sense 'called away' by a larger world and separated on her own from me. So you've got those three things." She says he wouldn't have been so torn up about their break up if they hadn't been in the same band Here's the exact quote: Nov 2003 Stevie Nicks: "But the day we joined Fleetwood Mac that all changed because we were famous and we were rich. The world really got in the way. I left him and he was torn up, but he wouldn't have been nearly so torn up if we hadn't been in a band together." I get the feeling that Stevie quotes are not always accepted in regards to Lindsey's feelings, but since you quoted her, here are some other quotes from her on the topic of Lindsey's feelings through the years: -In 1982 "Lindsey Buckingham wasn't happy with me because I'd broken up with him six years before." -In 1987 "We are talking about a man who was in love with a woman and would just as soon as he had faded out and just been his old lady or wife." -In 1989 "They (Billy & Rick) come up to my house, and they work with me on music. And, um, you see that is something that Lindsey and I never did, because he need wanted to be that close to me…anymore. Because we'd always get back on the subject of why we broke up 12 years ago." -In 1990 "When he and I split up in the beginning, Lindsey was never quite able to understand what had happened to us, and that in itself had to make day to day living very difficult for him, and it did for me." In 1994 "He feels I broke up our team. So, for that, in his mind, I should be tortured for days and then killed." In 1997 RS article- When Nicks wrote a song, she'd bring it to him, and he'd ask, "Who is that about?" "You don't really want to know," she would say. "So I'm not going to tell you. It's just about nothing." "That's where the double-edged sword came, "Nicks says, "whether he wanted to help me or not: 'So, you don't want to be my wife, my girlfriend, but you want me to do all that magic stuff on your songs. Is there anything else that you want, just, like, in my spare time?'" In 1997 "Lindsey didn't want this breakup. He didn't want to not be with me. He and, he and I were really, you know, we'd been together for a long time, many, many, many years. We definitely felt married." In 1998 "Buckinghamnicks had to bite the bullet for Fleetwood Mac, that was a choice. We'll never quite know exactly what would have happened if we had gone the other way. And of course, that's the thing that Lindsey gets the most upset about in his heart sometimes- he wonders what would have happened if it had just been the two of us. Which is not to say we don't love Fleetwood Mac, we do. But it would have been a whole other life. Destiny would have just knocked it a whole other way." In 2001- You know, it was very difficult for Lindsey and I. And it never got better, really. It’s better now because Lindsey is married. And he loves his wife, and I think she’s great too. And he has a little six...seven month old baby girl named LeeLee, and a little boy named Will, who’s four. And they are precious, you know... Lindsey has a life now. So now Lindsey and I can really be friends. Because now we’re not thinking in the back of our mind that we’ll ever go back together. That allows us to be free. So now with his new relationship that’s really great for me, because it allows me to be his friend, and hang out with him and see him. In 2013- "Lindsey would say sometimes 'I don't care how much money we made or how famous we were. All Fleetwood Mac did was break us up and that was the thing I held most dear.'" Lindsey just repeats himself, but here's a somewhat varied sample of what he has said through the years: 1982-Having gotten through "years of pain," Lindsey says he and Stevie are able to maintain a stable working relationship. 1987- “I think the real need to do a record 5 years after the last one came from…when we did the Mirage album and tour, a lot of things had been left hanging out on a limb – emotional things and even financial things. This album was a way to bring it back together. I think this album was a very healthy experience. What Rumours was for pain, this album was for healing.” (Okay, this is indirect, but you know the emotional things left hanging were between him & Stevie. Still dying to know what happened during the Mirage tour!) 1987- "In the past," he says, "what I've done is given over the commercial side of Fleetwood Mac, and tried to make, hopefully, more artistic statements on solo records," And how would he describe those statements? "Ah, just lust, longing, loneliness," he answers with a subtle grin. "Same old thing you always hear from me." 1992: Sardonic World recited on Out of the Cradle Tour- "The world was calling you away and your leaving was just a way of staying with what you'd come to say. This pain was a poem, slowly written, torn from the book and cast into a corner in the attic, where no one could look this rage for all to see, caught fire and burned all around me till there was nothing left to burn. Now I stand alone in these attic bones and re-read that poem, all yellowed with age, tears heal such as healing is so I cast that page into the ashes and there is no blame, only shades of regret, and those too will fade... as the world calls me away." 1992-"'Tango' was one of the toughest things I've ever been involved with. I probably saw Stevie 10 days during the whole project, which got me to thinking about the fracturing that had taken place within the band. It was a bit upsetting to me." 1997- "We looked back on the success of the 'Fleetwood Mac' album, and, under most circumstances, most couples would have just said, 'Later,' " Buckingham said. "But this thing had become such a large thing, had taken on such a life of its own, that I had to go through this exercise in denial in terms of not really being over Stevie and having to do for her everyday and work for her everyday. That went on for years." 1997- "There was never a point where there wasn't this underpinning of psychological torment and musical soap opera." Success only made it worse, because the momentum of the band's ascent forced the five of them to work together despite their personal problems. "Those years were very complex, in [terms of] fielding what was thrown at us and in dealing with my own emotions," says Buckingham. "Really, some of my issues with Stevie didn't get sorted out until I had left the band. And you think, 'Well, jeez, that was, what, '77? And you left in '87? Get on with it, buddy. But usually, when you break up with someone, you don't have to see them five, six days a week and work with them for the next 10 years." 1997-In the 12 years I was involved in the band, there was so much agendizing and baggage and whatever was going on behind the scenes with the couples, it was very difficult to appreciate all that. It was all masked by a certain level of pain. Various levels of pain, quite a bit at times. And it was always a lesson in denial. You had to cram all your feelings here and get on with your creative thing here." 1998- "When I left in 1987 there was a lot of stuff still unresolved between Stevie and me," says Buckingham candidly. "That sounds strange when we had split up ten years earlier but most couples in that position don't carry on seeing each other all the time. Being in a band is almost like living with someone." 2001- "Once you feel someone moving away, your tendency is to try to grab at it.. for awhile and that only makes it even worse." 2003-“Stevie and I could never quite find each other after Tusk. You have to understand that this is someone I met when I was 16. I was completely devastated when she took off. And yet, trying to rise above that professionally, I produced hits for her, I had to do a lot of things for her that I really didn’t want to do." 2003- re 1987 band departure- "I needed to get some separation from Stevie especially, because I don't think I'd ever quite gotten closure on our relationship," he said. "I needed to get on with the next phase of my creative growth and my emotional growth.” "When you break up with someone and then for the next 10 years you have to be around them and do for them and watch them move away from you, it's not easy." 2003- “That was another reason I left, to finally get closure on Stevie. I had been technically apart from her for 10 years but I was seeing her every day.” 2003- Re: Out of the Cradle: "The whole tenure in Fleetwood Mac was difficult. It was complicated, to say the least. The last few years were the most difficult. Everyone was pretty much at their worst, I would say. What became important was reorienting myself and finally getting some closure on Stevie after having to be around her all those years, then putting something together with people I hadn't known, really, and seeing myself in a different light through their eyes." 2006-"That was a hard thing for me, to be able to go in everyday as a producer, and draft songs for Stevie, basically make hits for Stevie, that were allowing her to move even farther away. It was a tough emotional challenge." 2007-"It was very painful. Working with someone that I was still in love with, who was, didn’t want to be with me and yet me having to do the work for her, having to produce hits for her, having to see her everyday, not being allowed the necessity- I won’t say the luxury- it is a necessity- of of of physical distance in order to get closure. Um, and the the compartmentalizing of emotions that had to follow in that situation.” 2007- It's been 30 years since Fleetwood Mac had astounding success with the album "Rumours." Lindsey Buckingham, the creative force behind much of that record, is only just now starting to process the after-effects of being in the biggest band in the world as his own world was falling apart. "There was a long period of time in the post-Fleetwood Mac environment where I wasn't sure what that all meant, why we went through that exercise," Buckingham said by phone last week. Sure, the band members made lots of money, but they paid a price. "Everyone was damaged," Buckingham said. "Emotionally speaking I was completely remote. There was this sense of alienation that existed. Your comfort area was your work." 2007 "Stevie left me at a time where we'd already had a successful album and knew we had to follow through on our 'destiny' or whatever you want to call it. Usually, you break up, you don't see your ex any more. That's the way you get closure – not having to produce hits for them so they can get even farther away from you. It was not good.” 2008 "There was a long period of time, where because Fleetwood Mac had been such a difficult emotional road, where I think the combination of the kind of success and maybe the lack of closure with people in the band, I kind of submerged myself from the world at large." A couple thrown in from Christine McVie on Lindsey's 1987 departure: 1987 Christine McVie on Lindsey’s departure: “I’ve got to say though, and Stevie would tell you this as well, that it’s largely friction between those two that has been a real problem.” 1987-Christine McVie “The dust hasn’t really settled yet,” says McVie, who has always “gotten along very well” with Buckingham. “But there are no axes to grind,” she adds. Asked to comment further on specific reasons for the split, rumored to run deeper than Buckingham’s decision not to tour, she says, “To be honest, it’s personal and private.” If there were no problems between McVie and Buckingham, where was the rub? “Well, take three guesses and you’ll probably be right,” she says. Mick on Lindsey's 1987 departure: Fleetwood- When Lindsey left [in 1987], I was so pissed off. I thought, 'How could he do that?' He was having a breakdown - or at least thinking, 'I can't do this any more.' Mick 2013- Buckingham, Mick says, emotionally invested too much in her when she had made it clear the relationship was over. However, to a great extent, those wounds largely healed over when Buckingham left the band for a decade from 1987. When she left him to move back up North and fell in love with someone, she doesn't say he was breaking her neck trying to get her back. No, I can't find a quote from Stevie saying this either, but… I can't find a quote from her saying that he didn't break his neck trying to get her back either. Does her not ever speaking about it publicly mean that it wasn't so? She indicates there was a lot of crazy and creepy things that happened post FM breakup- but she is not willing to elaborate…... Instead, I gather he was in Southern California, smoking and continuing to make music with Richard and figured Stevie would come back when she came back, wagging her tail behind her. Is this just an opinion? Because I can't find the source for this. My opinion is that he was probably devastated. The fact that he took her back even after she left him for someone else would indicate that. The fact that he knew she was tired of working as a waitress and cleaning lady, but he still wouldn't agree to play steak houses tells me that he wasn't really that interested in doing just anything to keep her. If they worked steakhouses, at least their careers would have bound him to her and kept her at his side for the money, despite domestic conflicts, but he didn't want it that way. Really? Couples disagree constantly. Are you saying that if I don't let my husband make 100% of the big decisions we disagree on that I'm not interested in keeping him, and that I must not love him or care if he leaves me? Because I've read nothing to indicate that Stevie issued an ultimatum on this or that that was a deal-breaker for their relationship. Clue me in if I'm wrong. He was concerned with some sort of musical integrity without compromises even then. So, I think the idea of being in BN and making their own musical choices really appeals to him. On the other hand, I can't think of a lot of examples of duos that made it (of course there are Dave and Annie) and I think part of him wanted to "make it." I think he likes that he got to do Tusk. He likes that he got to spend 13 months and all of that money on Tusk. Even if he doesn't say he loved having money, the money that the first two albums brought him, I think he would admit loving to have the power that FM had to make Tusk come true. I can agree with this opinion, but my opinion is that his relationship with Stevie mattered more to him than any of this. Today, with digital technology, it would not cost that much money to make Tusk, but back then it was a triumph and I think he was happy to be in a position to make that triumph happen, even if it means being saddled with "the big machine." Sure, I suppose. So, I do imagine he wants to know how far BN would have gone, but unless they went nowhere and they gave up music and returned to northern California, I don't think he believes BN would have led to a future with Stevie. If they gave up music and started a family, yes, but if they continued on the BN path, they probably wouldn't have had the longevity as a pair of some kind that they have had in FM. He states the exact opposite of this sentiment in a 2013 Sound Opinions interview. "If we had hypothetically remained as BN, there was a parallel thing that we had, our set of reference points as BN was far more similar than it became in Fleetwood Mac, therefore who is to say that that would not have translated to an easier road for us to stay together as a couple?" Stevie wrote Kind of Woman about his temptations on the road, but men would have hit on her too, the more they performed and I think monogamy would have always been a struggle. Well.. my husband is very good looking and travels on business, the thought crosses my mind. But what does this prove? What does it say about Lindsey's feelings for Stevie at that time? Does her worrying that he might stray in the early 70's mean that he didn't really love her? Her insecurities didn't have anything to do with his actual level of commitment. Also, if you are in love with someone, it doesn't matter if they are good looking and might stray- it doesn't make you love them less. Neither does them getting strung out on drugs, or getting fat, for example. Being in love (having a real, true love for another person) is an incredibly powerful thing- maybe the most powerful force in the world- no? It's not easily dislodged. Speaking of Stevie's lyrics and this topic- I'm reminded of In the Still of the Night from 198?- "Still the same old story, what price glory?" Yep, I think Lindsey was having the whole FM broke up us discussion with Stevie right from the very beginning. Yes, everyone gets tamed and I think the life that Lindsey is living now is proof of that, as are the compromises that he makes musically which don't happen as grudgingly as they once did. I hope he's happy, he deserves it. Last edited by brickney723; 02-16-2014 at 10:52 PM..
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you seem to imply that what i wrote and that specific line are contradictory - can you clarify why?
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