Katrina

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by amber

Yes, everyone knows, and like I said before, there will be a reckoning. But with that congress, I doubt it will be impeachment. But what? There's huge race issues, and economic issues, and war/economy issues - Do you think an underclass, and everyone else, might see now that it's so serious as to warrant an uprising? Sadly, with all the devastation, I don't think that will be possible. I'd love an impeachment, but I think he's going to be there for the rest of his term. I don't see another solution that is plausible.

I feel like we are on the brink of the civil rights movement, Vietnam and the 70's energy crisis all rolled into one. Remember, there is an election next year and articles of impeachment start in the House Of Representatives. It will be very interesting to see where we are then.

[amber]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I feel like we are on the brink of the civil rights movement, Vietnam and the 70's energy crisis all rolled into one. Remember, there is an election next year and articles of impeachment start in the House Of Representatives. It will be very interesting to see where we are then.

that's how I feel, too. At least, it's what we should be on the brink of.
oh, right, a congressional election?
I hope the momentum of this isn't lost....sadly, that's what often happens when people's energy has to be focused on basic living needs.... they don't have time and energy to focus on politics, only for living and getting by...

[strandinthewind]

Here it is from the horse's mouth and as usual it is utter spinned cr*p Again, FEMA has been knowing this could happen for years and had emergency plans in place for a long long time. They just dropped the ball and now people are dead. I think they should make him explain this to the woman they showed on the highway holding her baby up to a helicopter begging them to take the child from her.

commentary provided in bold

Homeland Security Secretary Explains Katrina's Relief Efforts

Friday, September 02, 2005

This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," August 30, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

Watch "Hannity & Colmes" weeknights at 9 p.m. ET!

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: joining us now from Washington is the man coordinating the federal governments response to the disaster, the secretary of homeland security, Michael Chertoff.

Mr. Secretary, thank you very much for being with us tonight. We really do appreciate it.

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Good evening.

COLMES: I saw your news conference today, and you know, you talked about pre-staging, and you talked about pre-positioning resources. In light of that, why are we seeing what we're seeing? We're hearing words like, you know, "possible riots." Why is this happening, if that level of pre-staging was taking place?

CHERTOFF: Well, you know, Alan, this has been a unique challenge among all disasters. It was really a double disaster.

In the traditional hurricane, the hurricane comes in, or the flood comes in. It goes away, and then you bring in the relief, and you begin to address the victims and the situation.

Here, we had a hurricane. And it was followed the next day by a flood. And that flood is still underway, so that, as we send people in, they have the challenge of actually dealing with an ongoing catastrophe. They have to deal with six to eight feet of water. They have to deal with the inability to find dry ground in which to set up. [ and FEMA knew this could happen and had planned for it ]

This has added an element of challenge and complexity to the relief effort that I, frankly, think is unprecedented.

COLMES: Are we learning anything here? I mean, heaven forbid -- you know, we've talked about what would happen in this country if we had a terrorist attack, if somebody had a dirty bomb. Does this teach us anything about how we might respond in such a situation?

CHERTOFF: Well, I certainly think the catastrophic magnitude of this tragedy rivals anything we could imagine -- or virtually anything we could imagine from a terrorist.

We didn't have the direct loss of life, as far as we know, that would come from a huge bomb. But in terms of the collateral consequences, in terms of the people who were sick and suffering, and who are exposed to the possibility of fatal illness or death, in terms of the destruction and the pain, I think it's at a level that's comparable to the worst tragedies we've seen.

We've learned some lessons. We've learned some things we've done well. We've recognized the challenge, and particularly in preserving public order.

I have to say, I think we're all a little disappointed that a small minority of the city has decided they want to exploit the vulnerability of others.

I still think most people really want to be rescued. I understand that they're anxious, they're afraid. Many of them are hurt or feeling weak. Clearly, for these people, even an hour delay seems like an eternity. The only thing I can tell you is that the rescuers are working tirelessly to get what they have on hand through the debris, through the water, and get help.

COLMES: We've heard from other countries that they've offered help, even Venezuela, Jamaica. I understand 20 countries, and all has been refused. Will that continue to be the case? And is there a reason we should not accept help from other countries?

CHERTOFF: Well, we haven't refused help. In fact, we've been grateful for help, and we've welcomed it. What we want to do, though, is we want to make sure that we get the help in the most effective way.

This is going to be a long process, Alan. We're not going to just stop when we evacuate people. We're going to have to find them temporary shelter. We're going to have to find them long-term shelter. We're going to have to drain and clean the city, and we're going to have to rebuild it.

As the president said the other day, this is a task that is going to take not months but years. So there's going to be plenty of opportunity to apply the resources that we get from generous people in the country and people overseas.

Our first and most immediate requirement is to get people out of the city of New Orleans, and also, by the way, to address some very urgent needs in Mississippi and Alabama, as well.

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Mr. Secretary, it's Sean Hannity. Thank you for being with us in this very difficult time for you, and for the government, and the president, everybody else.

There is some whining. There is some complaining. Is there a little bit of politics going on here? Or do you feel that you are doing the best you possibly can? [ No - actually Sean theat sound was screams for help and pity from the unwashed masses dying in NOLA - FU**ER ]

I know, we've got 10,000 National Guard troops headed in there. Do you think you have enough people in the right places, in an expeditious time frame here? [ hey why hurry now that everyone is leaving ]

CHERTOFF: Sean, we do have enough people [ ] . And we're bringing more in.

And, of course, we began immediately when the hurricane ended by starting to move people in. We then had to deal with the issue of the flood. And we are continuing to increase the resources we bring to bear.

We're working, for example, to get trains into New Orleans overnight, so we can start to use trains to remove people and evacuate them. We're working on an air bridge, a way to get people to an airport and start to get planes in to the airport, now that we can open it up again.

So, as time passes, we're getting a lot of work done. But I'm very well aware of the fact that the clock is ticking for people who are suffering and that every hour that goes by is an hour of pain and difficulty.

HANNITY: Mr. Secretary, are you confident that everybody that is affected, more specifically in New Orleans, that needs food, that needs water, that needs shelter, that needs medical care, at this hour, is able to get it?

CHERTOFF: Sean, I have to tell you: We are seeking desperately to give everybody the care they need. [ well actually five days after the fact - a tiny detail buttwipe Hannity unsurprisingly did not call this a$$ on ]

People have begun, in the last day, to emerge from places of shelter that we didn't know about. [ of course you knew about the - you a$$ ] Some of them go to designated refuges, but some of them don't. They congregate on portions of I-10 or in dry spots in the street. And the challenge for us is to get them the food and water [ gosh Harry Connick Jr. drove right up to them ].

We have to make sure we can drop it in a place that they get access to. We have to make sure we don't have fighting or scuffling that breaks out. So the issue here is really not a lack of resources; it is the difficulty of distributing them.

HANNITY: Yes. Let's talk specifically about the New Orleans mayor issuing a desperate SOS. All the video that America is looking at, the looting, the lawlessness, the crime that has been reported, how soon do you think it will be, Mr. Secretary, until that situation is under complete and full control?

CHERTOFF: Well, we have 1,400 supplemental National Guard military police arriving today. We'll have an equal number tomorrow, more thereafter. You know, essentially, that is like doubling the size of the New Orleans police force every single day.

The president has made it very clear that we are not going to tolerate lawlessness [ except his unlawfullness ]. We have a lot of compassion for those who are suffering [ oh just put them on your to do list for next week - why hurry now ], but we will not spare those people who are preying on others. We've got to get about the business of getting people out of here and getting them shelter, and food, and water, without being hindered.

COLMES: Mr. Secretary, we thank you very much for being with us tonight. Thank you so much for being here.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168295,00.html

[amber]

Nice article. But we've been hearing that from the horses mouth since at least '69. And all through the coverage of this. All the articles and opinions now are merely the Sound and the Fury.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Here it is from the horse's mouth and as usual it is utter spinned cr*p Again, FEMA has been knowing this could happen for years and had emergency plans in place for a long long time. They just dropped the ball and now people are dead. I think they should make him explain this to the woman they showed on the highway holding her baby up to a helicopter begging them to take the child from her.

commentary provided in bold

Homeland Security Secretary Explains Katrina's Relief Efforts

Friday, September 02, 2005

This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," August 30, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

What utter crap. The public's not buying it, though.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Lux

Did they edited the remarks about Bush from Concert for Hurricane Relief? Fascist tendencies are a bad move when people already saw the footage, it would be less obvious to just keep it in.

They were thinking the program would do it. Anybody on the west coast see it?

[amber]

Originally Posted by Lux

Did they edited the remarks about Bush from Concert for Hurricane Relief? Fascist tendencies are a bad move when people already saw the footage, it would be less obvious to just keep it in.

oh, lux, how can you expect Bush to curb his fascist tendencies now??? He's gotten away with it for so long! Let's hope he does try to contain it, it will make him look worse. And yes, they did Edit. Very strange, I thought he had most media in his pocket....

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

They were thinking the program would do it. Anybody on the west coast see it?

I haven't. What channel was it on?? Cable?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

oh, lux, how can you expect Bush to curb his fascist tendencies now??? He's gotten away with it for so long! Let's hope he does try to contain it, it will make him look worse. And yes, they did Edit. Very strange, I thought he had most media in his pocket....

I am unsure the WH made them take that out. I think it was self-censorship. This is a fund raiser and alienating potential contributers, which this comment could do, is the goal. I think they should left it in though.

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I am unsure the WH made them take that out. I think it was self-censorship. This is a fund raiser and alienating potential contributers, which this comment could do, is the goal. I think they should left it in though.

Oh. I was checking posts while it was going on and they said that some people said outright things against him (ie, no self censorship). I don't know, I haven't seen it...The people here said Kanye was edited when he said "Bush don't like black people"

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

Oh. I was checking posts while it was going on and they said that some people said outright things against him (ie, no self censorship). I don't know, I haven't seen it...The people here said Kanye was edited when he said "Bush don't like black people"

By self censorship I meant the producers of the show editing it on their own as opposed to the WH making a phone call and requesting the edit.

[strandinthewind]

another dog and pony show


Congress Likely To Investigate Slow Response
States Were Ready Days Ago

POSTED: 7:06 am CDT September 3, 2005
UPDATED: 7:16 am CDT September 3, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Some members of Congress are starting to question why it took so long to get National Guard troops on the ground in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans.

Several states said they were willing to send troops to help in the Gulf-Coast relief, but didn't get a go ahead until days after the storm struck.

The governor of New Mexico said he offered troops before Katrina hit but didn't get clearance from Washington until Thursday. The head of the Michigan National Guard said he was ready to send in police units but couldn't without a request.

Sen. Chuck Hagel , R-Neb., said there will have to be some "accountability" after the current crisis is taken care of. The state's other senator, Democrat Ben Nelson, said it makes him question earlier assurances that sending National Guard troops to Iraq wouldn't affect the Guard's traditional role of responding to natural disasters at home.

www.wdsu.com

[strandinthewind]

from cnn.com

Nine stockpiles of fire-and-rescue equipment strategically placed around the country to be used in the event of a catastrophe still have not been pressed into service in New Orleans, five days after Hurricane Katrina, CNN has learned.

WTF

Mercifully, there are only about 2,000 left in the dome - CNN also reported there were miscarriages in the dome in the last few days. I hope those in charge realize that innocent blood is on their hands

[strandinthewind]

Saturday, September 03, 2005

Geologist: Katrina ripped up La. coastline
Talks surface on how to protect La., coast

By Mark Schleifstein
Staff writer

Louisiana coastal restoration officials began brainstorming with officials from the Army Corps of Engineers on Friday about how to protect the New Orleans area and other communities in southeastern Louisiana from another catastrophic hurricane and restore its coastal wetlands at the same time.

They're trying to quickly hammer together a plan that could be thrown into an expected supplemental congressional appropriation that's needed to pay the cost of Katrina rescue and recovery efforts, said Randy Hanchey, deputy secretary of the Louisiana Department of Natural Resources.

Sidney Coffee, coastal adviser to Gov. Kathleen Blanco, confirmed that the talks began Friday.

Late Friday, corps officials announced they are beginning to breach levees to drain water from Chalmette, flooded because of failures of levees along the Industrial Canal.

Backhoes mounted on marsh buggies and draglines mounted on barges will cut breaches in the levees, including one along the Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet between the Bayou Bienville and Bayou Dupree floodgates and another near the Caernarvon Freshwater Diversion Canal.

Breaches of two ring levees in Plaquemines Parish, one on each bank of the river, will soon follow, the corps announcement said.

Corps officials already have said that protecting New Orleans from a Category 5 storm would cost at least $2.5 billion.

The proposed Morganza-to-Gulf hurricane protection levee being considered for authorization during this term of Congress, is estimated to cost $670 million, but would only protect parts of Terrebonne, Lafourche and Jefferson parishes from a Category 3 storm, just like the existing levees around the New Orleans area.

Congress also is considering a $1.2 billion proposal to begin restoring the coastline, a process estimated to eventually cost $15 billion.

"We're trying to put together a package recommending a comprehensive hurricane protection and costal restoration program that will provide a much higher level of protection, with the restoration of critical land features in the coastal zone that provide surge protection," Hanchey said.

"How this will be received, we just don't know," he said. "But you can't look at hurricane protection any more from the microeconomic, one-city point of view any more. If one is concerned about economic justification about a project like this, that question has been answered."

Hanchey said the preliminary plan is to ask Congress to allow the corps to skip the preliminary cost-justification steps of these projects that often take as long as five to 10 years.

"We need to accelerate the way the funds are provided and move directly to design and construction," he said. "We need to be starting today."

State and federal officials have been delayed in determining how much damage the Category 4 Katrina has done to coastal areas because manpower, boats, planes and helicopters all have been pressed into service to rescue people in New Orleans.

A flight by Coffee and other coastal officials at dusk Thursday, however, indicated that as much as half of Plaquemines Parish was still underwater.

While it's still unclear whether the wetlands there have been destroyed, Coffee said the view was similar to maps drawn by the state to show what the coastline would look like in 2050 without a restoration program.

Asbury Sallenger, a coastal geologist with the U.S. Geological Survey's St. Petersburg, Fla., laboratory, has been able to fly photographic missions over the eastern Louisiana coastline and the coasts of Mississippi and Alabama during the past few days to measure Katrina's damage.

He said the Chandeleur Islands have been ripped asunder, and look worse than they did after Hurricane Georges in 1998 and Tropical Storm Isidore and Hurricane Ivan in 2002.

Meanwhile, state Department of Environmental Quality and the Louisiana Oil Spill Coordinator's Office are trying to determine the extent of a major oil spill at mile marker 22 on the Mississippi River near Venice.

DEQ spokesman Darren Mann said it's still unclear whether the oil is leaking from a pair of holding tanks that have been described as holding either 800,000 barrels of oil each or 2 million barrels of oil each, he said.

Coffee said there were a number of smaller oil spills near platforms all along southern Plaquemines Parish.
How much oil is in the water, and exactly where it comes from will have to wait until officials can get to the area by boat, he said.

Meanwhile, Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals officials say floodwaters inside levees in St. Bernard and Jefferson parishes and New Orleans are a toxic mix of bacteria contamination and hazardous chemicals.

Exactly what chemicals might be in the water is not yet known, said Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Stephen Johnson in a phone interview from Washington.

"It's too early to speculate," Johnson said. "We haven't even gotten to the point where we're able to assess what's there or not there."

Emergency preparedness experts have long warned that floodwaters in New Orleans could be contaminated with everything from the household chemicals beneath kitchen and bathroom sinks to hazardous chemicals in businesses and factories to gasoline and diesel fuel leaking from underground storage tanks. Above-ground tanks also were expected to add
to the mix as they floated free from their supports, breaking piping as floodwaters rose.

Contaminated water already is being pumped into Lake Pontchartrain, where it will make its way along the south shore, out the Chef Menteur and Rigolets passes and into the Gulf of Mexico. Equally contaminated floodwaters from St. Bernard Parish also will end up in coastal wetlands, all of which are home to the state's lucrative oyster industry and other fisheries.

Johnson said the Federal Drug Administration and Department of Health and Human Services will assist in making sure no contaminated seafood reaches the public in the months to come. The state Health Department also will assist in that effort.
Health Department spokesman Bob Johannessen said triage units treating evacuees haven't seen tell-tale rashes on legs or other bare skin that would result from exposure to toxic chemicals. He said bacteria in the water could have gotten into wounds, and the problems that might cause could take some time to show up.

Federal and state officials continue to search from the air for chemical and oil leaks, but a detailed inspection also has been delayed by the diversion of personnel to rescue efforts.

"Our first priority is to assist and make sure people are safe and we are actually saving lives," Johnson said.

"We have 69 watercraft on the scene and thus far, emergency response personnel have rescued 500 people," he said.

The EPA also is providing 50 workers to conduct environmental assessments of construction sites for temporary housing that will be built during the next few weeks for displaced residents, he said.

An EPA plane equipped with sensing instruments flew over a warehouse fire on a Mississippi River wharf in New Orleans Friday and found no evidence of toxic materials, Mann said.

The agency also is working with the corps in preparing a plan to deal with the vast quantity of storm debris left in Katrina's wake.

"We will be assessing the debris material to see if it is indeed hazardous," Johnson said.

Johnson said he was unaware of the unique problems that debris would present if it is infested with Formosan termites, but said that would be added to the list.

When South Carolina officials stored debris from Charleston's older neighborhoods in empty lots on the outskirt of town after Hurricane Hugo hit the Formosan termite-infested area, the termites were spread to new areas, officials there said.

Entomologist Kenneth Grace of the University of Hawaii said it's likely that floodwater may result in a reduction of termite nests in the New Orleans area, but that even long-standing stormwater won't kill all of the damaging insects. That's because their underground nests are likely to contain pockets of air, and they also have nests in the upper trunks of trees above the floodwaters.

And he warned that moving building debris around was likely to spread the insects to areas not yet infested, just like in Charleston.

Mark Schleifstein can be reached at mersmia@cox.net

www.nola.com

[strandinthewind]

I do not think this was posted earlier - if so

In any event - this demonstrates the finger pointing at Gov. Blanco was inappropriate and the fault is solely FEMA's

Political storm brewing over Katrina disaster

By JOHN McQUAID
Staff writer

WASHINGTON - A semblance of post-storm order returned to a ravaged New Orleans Friday. But the political storm over the disaster was just beginning.

Political leaders, Republican and Democrat alike, blasted the Federal Emergency Management Agency and its parent agency, the Department of Homeland Security for allowing New Orleans to descend into a cauldron of suffering and anarchy for three days and nights after the storm passed.

President Bush, himself the target of criticism for the sluggish response, pronounced the results "unacceptable."

Dozens of others chimed in with criticisms and proposals. "If we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?" asked former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, a Republican.

The Republican and Democratic leaders of the Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee announced they would launch an investigation into the post-disaster response. Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., called on Bush to go over the heads of those directing the emergency response and appoint a cabinet-level official to take over. Rep. Mark Foley, R-Fla., called for splitting FEMA out of Homeland Security.

FEMA officials pleaded "no contest.".

Bill Lokey, chief coordinator for FEMA, said agencies were simply overwhelmed by the scale of the challenge. "It's the nature of the disaster," he said. "This is far beyond anything we've ever done in this country. It's beyond our immediate capabilities for sure."

Lokey said rescue workers have been hampered by floodwaters, and by the fact that many of the resources they needed were not available nearby and had to be brough in. And because the storm damage was spread across three states, FEMA's resources have also been spread out, he said.

What went wrong? Solid answers to that question may take years of study by blue-ribbon commissions and Congress to sort out. Emergency managers will be studying what happened for decades to come. But emergency managers and people who study disasters said several key problems allowed the situation to slip out of officials' hands and deteriorate.

Part of the problem is that the quick mobilization of massive human and material resources takes expert management from the top, and the coordination of dozens of different federal agencies. That would have enabled a quicker entry into the city of National Guardsmen to establish order, distribute food, and get people out.

Emergency management plans are for the most part based on the assumption that the people involved will be a relatively cooperative. "In most cases they are very prompt about having police or national guardsmen deployed in force," said Jay Baker. "So it doesn't become an issue."

The eruption of violence, disorder and confusion caught many by surprise. A simulation that emergency management officials ran last year of a catastrophic flood and hurricane hitting New Orleans did not address the possibility of widespread violence and disorder, said Madhu Beriwal, the president of IEM Inc., the Baton Rouge-based company that ran the exercise. Beriwal said that the violence issue was to be addressed at a later meeting.

"There is a truism among sociologists who study disasters that panic is not a problem," said Rutherford Platt, a disaster expert at the University of Massachusetts. "People are too well informed about what to do and expect - even low income people get a lot of information. There are Red Cross shelters, all these things we expect to take up the slack."

DHS had no master plan on aimed specifically at addressing the New Orleans catastrophe. Officials attending last year's simulation - which included tabletop exercises on the response to a fictional Hurricane Pam that flooded the city - produced a document with many contingency plans, Beriwal said. For example, officials agreed that Fish and Wildlife service personnel would rescue people and ferry them to city access points for transport out.

But the simulation was just an early stage of a multi-year effort to develop a comprehensive plan - one that had been delayed by 9/11 and competing priorities.

Homeland Security Secretary Donald Chertoff for the first time activated a more generic National Response Plan developed in the wake of 9/11 that gives him authority over all agencies involved. But it clearly didn't work as it was supposed to.

"Certainly what happened was some degree of a lack of coordination between federal, state and local folks prior to the arrival of the hurricane and immediately afterward," said Suzanne Mencer, a former Department of Homeland Security official who worked with state and local agencies. "It's that coordination piece that is always the most difficult."

Jan Moller and the Associated Press contributed to this story