liberals....

[Bella Figura]

how I hate coming back later...I am totally confused

by dissention "Whoa, I wasn't making things personal, there's no reason for you to do so.

As for my sig, the intention wasn't to browbeat you, I don't even know you. It's there as a sign of my support of the next president of the United States, Mr. John Kerry." I was speaking directly to you but I did not intend on making a personal attack just pointing out my perceptions of you and your agenda through the lens of my pc monitor in support of my conviction that everyone now has an agenda and is more interested in bullying people with their opinions than intelligently persuading them. and the last pic of your sig does show a political bias or at the very least points out the fraility of another human being for humourous effect.

by dissention "Yes. Americans are the most ignorant people on the face of the earth and wouldn't pay attention to political issues that affect them if those issues flew up and bit them in their McDonalds-enlarged asses. The only reason this is doing so well is because of the controversy. Just as it was the popular thing to do to see "Passion of the Christ," it's the popular thing to do to see this film. Hopefully it will change some ignorant minds. I mean, there was obviously a few people in the showing I went to that didn't get most of it; it flew right over their heads. For all they know, the Carlyle Group is a Catholic school in the mid-west. But, the majority of people were greatly affected by what they saw and left with tears in their eyes. That's wonderful, if you ask moi." Is this a personal attack??? am I truly one of the most ignorant people on the face of the earth?? after all, I am an American. and if my mind is so ignorant as evidenced by your post, how can you ever hope to change it? and if you do change my mind, because of my aforementioned ignorance, I'll still yet remain an ignorant American, just one who supports Michael Moore and his causes through some browbeating of his own. He at the very least held me captive by his movie for a few hours. and I'm not letting Mel off the hook for the Passion, that was brutal captivity...I used to be entertained when going to the movies, now the liberals and conservatives are really getting into all media outlets, first new, then radio, then talk, now the movies...is anyplace safe???

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I am not explaining this again, it does not matter if the courts thought he was innocent or guilty. They overturned his conviction. That means it is as if IT NEVER EXISTED period - end of story - there is no getting around that no matter how much you dislike Ollie North. I can't stand him either, but my dislike of him does not mean the law does not apply to him nor does it make untrue the statement that legally he was never convicted, even though he may very well be guilty as sin, which he was. SHEEBUS!

AND - my point was and is La Rhodes acted just like that jerk Hannity when she was called out on this. She screamed up and down and refused to let Ollie North get a word in edgewise to explain the law to her - she apparently would rather yell the loudest and sound ignorant by doing so. So, that is the parralell I was trying to draw.

I didn't know you had heard the interview. I only posted a transcript.

Ollie North can say that he was never convicted, but that's simply not true. He WAS convicted, no matter if it was overturned or not. It does not negate the fact that he was convicted and stayed convicted for three years. He was convicted on three charges: obstructing Congress, destroying documents relating to a crime, and accepting illegal bribes.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Now, what are the mistruths in Moore's movie? Don't quote me some drivel from some idiot. I want you to tell us what you know is not factual in Fahrenheit 9/11.

Exactly.

Rob brought up the moore film in this thread, called it "ridiculous," and refuses to explain how it is ridiculous. He says it is full of half truths and lies, yet can't, or won't, point any out. I suspect he's waiting for Faux News to post their comprehensive assessment of the film. Post something original for once, not the ramblings of every other raging conservative.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, let's see, like 15 years ago James R, Bath gave W. $50,000 to help launch W's oil company called Arbusto. Mr. Bath served in the Texas NG with W and is a friend of the Bushes who served as a financial advisor to a brother of OBL. He is a shadey character. Although many believe there are other connections and that the BL had other investments in this oil company, there are not as provable. But, even if they are, that was a long time ago - June 1977 to be exact And - if all they can come up with is a $50,000 investment 15 years ago, I am not buying that $50,000 is a drop in the bucket when we are talking about oil money.

Gee, Jason, did you forget Osama's brother Salem was partners with Georgie boy? Salem invested money when Arbuston was launched in 1977. It's not like Bath went around the community with hat in hand. He got the money from Osama's own brother.

What exactly did you like about the movie again?

Salem died mysteriously in 1988, by the way.

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Oh, yeah, I'm scarred for life.

Can you actually post an original thought? All you do is resort to posting drivel from conservatives with their heads stuck up their asses. You just went and quoted something about Democrats wanting to strike Iraq. Do you realize how little that means to me? I disagreed with them about it as I disagree with your beloved Fascist administration.

I do my own thinking.

Now, what are the mistruths in Moore's movie? Don't quote me some drivel from some idiot. I want you to tell us what you know is not factual in Fahrenheit 9/11.

liberals....always avoiding the topic.

Rob

PS. See the Moore thread for my views on his film...

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Bella Figura

I was speaking directly to you but I did not intend on making a personal attack just pointing out my perceptions of you and your agenda through the lens of my pc monitor. the last pic of your sig does show a political bias or at the very least points out the fraility of another human being for humourous effect.

I didn't know picking your nose made you frail. I was under the impression it just made you a pig.

I do have an agenda and every person on this board knows what it is. But that's no reason to mock me or anyone else and sarcastically ask if we're trying to enlighten and educate people. The problem is, the American people aren't educated about such matters; hopefully the few people on thsi baord who are can help in educating them. Of course, we all have biases, but those biases do not negate the facts or articles that we post.

Originally Posted by Bella Figura

Is this a personal attack??? am I truly one of the most ignorant people on the face of the earth?? after all, I am an American. and if my mind is so ignorant as evidenced by your post, how can you ever hope to change it? and if you do change my mind, because of my aforementioned ignorance, I'll still yet remain an ignorant American, just one who supports Michael Moore and his causes.

No, it wasn't a personal attack, it was a general attack on those who aren't educated about political affairs. You obviously aren't one of them if you're partaking in this thread. And that was posted before you even posted in this thread. You simply cannot refute the fact that this country is ignorant about such issues; over half of the country still believes Saddam was involved in 9/11.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Rob67

always avoiding the topic.

If that's the case (which I can assure you it isn't), you have something in common with us.

Originally Posted by Rob67

PS. See the Moore thread for my views on his film...

I did, there's nothing there. And there won't be anything substantial because you can't prove that he lied once in that film.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Rob67

liberals....always avoiding the topic.

Rob

PS. See the Moore thread for my views on his film...

No, I want you to explain what you meant by ridiculous and mistruths. You brought it up here. You tell us here.

Or are you one of those kids who punches a guy in the face and runs as fast as he can? Because that's what you do when you post something and refuse to back it up when called on it.

[Wild Heart]

[QUOTE=dissention].................so he has to over-analyze every frame of it so as not to get flamed by the two conservatives around here......


Make that three...........although technically I'm a lurker Ledgie and not an active poster anymore. I stopped posting sometime ago after the realization that this board has become increasingly intolerate to opposing views and seeing how anyone expressing an opinion outside of the far left is ridiculed. I was a diehard Rush Limbaugh hating tree hugging liberal Democrat who voted for Gore in 2000 when I first joined this board. I even got flamed on this very site once for making a Republican joke. I have been liberal all of my adult life until the morning of September 11, 2001, after watching the second tower fall, I stunned myself when I realized all I could think is Thank God Bush is President. The change wasn't immediate but it was enough to make me to look deeper into my opinions and values. Two and a half years later I'm now a Hannity & O'Reilly loving One Nation Under God Go NRA Bush for President conservative. I don't agree with everything Bush does, I do not like Dick Cheney, I still don't care for Limbaugh and I think Ann Coulter needs to take a pill (or get laid, no offense ladies).

I began to feel unwelcomed here after my political views changed, even though I steered clear of the political debates, so I slipped into lurker status. I never realized how intolerate people on this board can be until I stepped over to the "wrong" side of the fence. Now I just check in occasionally to see what's up with the band but it even spills over into the FM forums. You can't even read a thread without being bombarded with Vote For John Kerry and Anti Bush signatures. I'm not saying that those people shouldn't have those signatures because I believe in free speech but I'd hate to see the backlash if I had a Vote For George W. Bush and anti Democrat signature because free speech only applys around here if you share the majority's opinion. It would be more ugly than I could dare to imagine. I would never have even saw this thread if a misplaced thread in the Rumours forum had not lead me here out of curiosity over what was being said about the Moore film.

Well I've said too much already and I'm sure the liberals are foaming at the mouth and ready to pounce on the lone conservative. And no I have not seen the Moore film. I would really like to see it but I didn't even like Moore when I was a liberal. He will make millions but not one cent from me.

I guess to point of my post is that friendly debate is one thing and everybody has different opinions but the level of intolerance for opposing views on this board is outrageous and not just in political threads. I'm sure I'm not the only Ledgie who has chosen lurker status or completely left the board because they feel unwelcome because they do not agree with the majority on certain issues whether it be political, moral or the Mac themselves. I think it's very sad how bipolarized we've become and our own Ledge is an example.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Ollie North can say that he was never convicted, but that's simply not true. He WAS convicted, no matter if it was overturned or not. It does not negate the fact that he was convicted and stayed convicted for three years.

No he was not and for you to say so shows contempt of the law and an ignorance I have never before seen in you.

Again, I am no fan of Ollie North, but he was never convicted. But, you go right on saying that no matter how much of an idiot, when you most certainly are not , it makes you sound like That is such a Sean Hannity and RR thing to do. When faced with the facts, state a lie and not back down. Just admit it - you are dead wrong here and I am right - again - the overturning of Ollie Noth's conviction makes him never convicted. I totally agree it does not speak to his culpability. It just means he was never convicted.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Wild Heart

I guess to point of my post is that friendly debate is one thing and everybody has different opinions but the level of intolerance for opposing views on this board is outrageous and not just in political threads. I'm sure I'm not the only Ledgie who has chosen lurker status or completely left the board because they feel unwelcome because they do not agree with the majority on certain issues whether it be political, moral or the Mac themselves. I think it's very sad how bipolarized we've become and our own Ledge is an example.

That's sad, IMO. No one should have to stop posting because their opinions aren't of the majority. That never stopped me form posting on the Stevie board.

I read your post and am not going to flame you because you made your point sin a respectful manner. So, why do you support Bush? Seriously.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

No he was not and for you to say so shows contempt of the law and an ignorance I have never before seen in you.

Again, I am no fan of Ollie North, but he was never convicted. But, you go right on saying that no matter how much of an idiot, when you most certainly are not , it makes you sound like That is such a Sean Hannity and RR thing to do. When faced with the facts, state a lie and not back down. Just admit it - you are dead wrong here and I am right - again - the overturning of Ollie Noth's conviction makes him never convicted. I totally agree it does not speak to his culpability. It just means he was never convicted.

Then I'm proudly ignorant when it comes to Ollie North, war criminal.

His conviction was overturned. But he must've been convicted at one point and time in order for it to be overturned.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Gee, Jason, did you forget Osama's brother Salem was partners with Georgie boy? Salem invested money when Arbuston was launched in 1977. It's not like Bath went around the community with hat in hand. He got the money from Osama's own brother. . . Salem died mysteriously in 1988, by the way.

I know that. Bath was trustee or simething like that. But my point is all of this conspiracy for $50,000 15 years ago. That hardly is a smoking gun but, it is evidence nonetheless - I readily admit that.

[Bella Figura]

ah to pick or not to pick???...everyone does piggish things but very few have their pictures snapped...my own hubby is still in shock over my humanity and we've been together 20 years.

but as for mocking and being sarcastic, that was not my intention but it was my intention to show how any person's passionate agenda can be an imposition on another's intellect. Adults have a great capacity to self-educate but at this point the people in the public sphere be it media or politics feel some kind of obligation to assault adults with their facts, figures, passion, agenda or loudmouths rather then make smart debate and leave it up to us to decide it's merits. and now more than ever, the Internet is one of the few places which still provides a forum for intelligent debate. so I have to support Rob for putting up a thread in direct conflict to the let's support Michael Moore's movie because it's great, true, patriotic whatever thread!!!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Then I'm proudly ignorant when it comes to Ollie North, war criminal.

His conviction was overturned. But he must've been convicted at one point and time in order for it to be overturned.

Are you pulling my leg because if you are stop, please.

I do not know what you do not get about this. The overturning of a conviction makes it like the original conviction never existed. I do not know how elese to explain it. I guess for those three years you could say Ollie North was convicted. But, once the court overturned it, you could no longer day that. Again, it is as if the original conviction never existed.

Please stop this if you are just joking with me.