Why the disdain for Mick?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

yes, i've noticed that too, John gets a pass and lots of love, seemingly mostly because he doesn't say anything so people project whatever they want him to be.

Or maybe because when he doesn't say anything, he's not annoying anyone.

And I hold my grudges independent of the band members. If you don't like what you know of someone's personality, you just don't like it. It doesn't matter how much everyone else loves him.

Take all the stuff Wendy says. I don't buy it, but if I did, I could dislike Mick on that ground. It's my perogative. I could care less if Bob forgave him, if I believed Wendy's suspicions were accurate and that truth upset me (which it doesn't actually) I would hate Mick no matter who else loved him.

I was watching Sherlock the other day and John's wife shot Sherlock and John and Sherlock were ok with that, but I sure wasn't. Sherlock was like, "Well, she didn't shoot to kill me." Huh?

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

he got paid. As much as he loves Stevie, union rules is union rules.

Well, maybe Stevie got paid for singing with Vanessa too, that doesn't mean it wasn't totally a favor to Vanessa.

Michele

[MacShadowsBall]

One thing to remember too is that being a "fan" of one's talent is different than being a "fan" of the actual person. One can be a fan of Micks drumming but not a fan of himself. The same goes for Lindsey and others.

On a side note, I tend to like everybody! Even my crazy boss who has threatened to fire me twice in the past two months, I still "kinda" like her. I mean she's like insane, but we are still nice to each other!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

One thing to remember too is that being a "fan" of one's talent is different than being a "fan" of the actual person. One can be a fan of Micks drumming but not a fan of himself. The same goes for Lindsey and others.

That's true. I'm sure a lot of the people who complain about Mick think he's an awesome musician.

Michele

[MacShadowsBall]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

John dressed as a Nazi, and Christine in blackface and 1979–1980, and people still hold it against him.

Really! I didn't know that.

I read your posts michele. I understand what you're saying.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

I read your posts michele. I understand what you're saying.

You mentioned that you and your boss are still nice to each other and that's a point we can use here. Things said on a music message board --that he doesn't read -- don't reflect what someone would say to Mick if they met him in real life. I'm sure that even his detractors would be cordial to him in person and probably delighted by his presence and most might actually like him fine in that situation.

It's easy to view a person who is a public figure in the abstract and to assess them in ways that you would not, meeting a flesh and blood human whose face is familiar but who you realize is actually a stranger.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

Really! I didn't know that.

This is the photo.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

I can agree with that, but it's unfair to target Stevie when everyone has quit Fleetwood Mac at one time or another except Mick and John.

STEVIE DIDN'T QUIT THE BAND??? Huh? She very publicly quit the band, and she reneged on playing the Super Bowl pre-game in 1993 (with the BTM line-up). Stevie's loyalty hasn't been iron clad.

Well, that's an interesting opinion, because from my perspective it's pretty clear to me that even though Stevie and Lindsey were going nowhere, so was Fleetwood Mac.

If anything, Fleetwood Mac (and Christine Perfect McVie) were has-beens in 1974, having had big hits in Europe. Fleetwood Mac even had a Greatest Hits compilation by that point. In reality, they were rebuilding their careers by moving to L.A. and managing themselves (another example of Mick using the band to not lose everything, as some would say). They were on a major label. They had never been dropped by a label. They had been on television in Europe and the United States. Even the publicity from the Fake Mac scandal in 1974 helped their cause in some strange way. "Hypnotized" was a radio staple.



How many hits did Fritz or Buckingham Nicks ever have? How many times were they ever on national television? Be honest. Lindsey and Stevie walked into a dream situation. They joined a band that had gone through frequent personnel changes, making it easier for the fan-base to accept them as is, and were slightly under the radar at a major label, which gave them the freedom to be themselves. I'm not saying they weren't a major part of the band's success, just that the band was also a major part of their success. Without Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Nicks as everybody has come to love her would not exist. Without "Tusk," Lindsey wouldn't be considered a genius.

I would say it's the other way around - in both cases - Lindsey and Stevie bailed out Fleetwood Mac. No one could have predicted it, but in hindsight, it's obvious.

How so? Their first hit single was "Over My Head," and that could have just as easily been on any album prior that featured Christine. In fact, Christine had most of the hit singles during the heyday. Again, I come back to who benefitted most from the union. Christine McVie wasn't a waitress or cleaning lady, and wasn't at risk of becoming one.

Yes, The Dance reignited all three careers, that is undeniable, but it wasn't Stevie who came knocking on their door. She is the one who had to be persuaded, and without her and Lindsey, The Dance would never have had any traction.

Well, what would have been the point of a reunion album if the two people who left the band weren't a part of that reunion? And, don't kid yourself. Stevie was done after the SA tour. She was a joke, fodder for late night shows. "The Dance" completely changed that. It made her relevant to a new generation. It wouldn't have happened for her as a solo artist.

[iamnotafraid]

Why the disdain for Mick?

It's probably because he's mean, he's nasty and
he hates everything to do with Christmas.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Why the disdain for Mick?

It's probably because he's mean, he's nasty and
he hates everything to do with Christmas.

And he smells funny.

[Phil]

Michelle wrote:

No, I loved Cher as a member of Sonny and Cher, as a singer, comedian and entertainer within that construct. I didn't like her outside of it.

As for Mick, there are lots of people who know FM songs and like them quite a bit, have all the albums, but just see Mick as the drummer. Not a founder, not a glue that keeps the whole thing together. They don't delve into the entire history of a musical act. They don't read every interview or maybe they do read every interview and decided that despite his talent and contributions to the band, his personality is obnoxious.

Maybe they saw him up there with Samantha Fox and decided he was a loser, although his band is cool and their opinion of him has nothing to do with the band. Maybe they like Christine, Lindsey and Stevie and loathe Mick. It's not hard to dislike him and to also like the band at all.

What I don't understand is the (1) the whole "how can you call yourself a fan" argument, and (2) why it's necessary to like someone because you like their talent. So, he held the band together, good for him. I pay him with my money. I don't have to pay him with my heart.

As for calling yourself a fan, I am not a fan of anyone's if it means I have to meet certain criteria and believe and say only certain things in order to maintain my fanship. I define what my fanship means. It doesn't define me. What a "fan" is is as different as what every individual is.

By your standards, I am not a Fleetwood Mac fan and wouldn't want to be. I'm just an interested observer and I like it like that, because I don't want to follow any guidelines except for my own for how to display or express my admiration, affection, appreciation and respect.

I agree with Michelle's comments above. I happen to adore Phil Spector's skills as an arranger/producer, but perhaps not so much as a person...

By the way, I don't hold the Nazi/black-face debacle against John and Christine - I can appreciate that situation for what it most probably was, a drunken lark and nothing more. However, I don't care for John as a person. I consider him to be an arrogant, chauvinistic, misogynistic, abusive, dismissive arsehole. Undeniably talented as a musician and an integral contributor to the Mac over the years, but not someone I'd want to know.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

How can anybody call themselves a Fleetwood Mac fan when he or she can't stand Mick Fleetwood.

He's not the reason to like or dislike Fleetwood Mac unless you are specifically into the band for the drumming. I like the people who sing, and sadly Mick's two efforts in that direction haven't been successful.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

He's not the reason to like or dislike Fleetwood Mac unless you are specifically into the band for the drumming. I like the people who sing, and sadly Mick's two efforts in that direction haven't been successful.

How could you dislike Lizard People?! If you don't like that song, you hate Fleetwood Mac & are a terrorist.

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

When that member is one of the founding members, his name, his drums crafting that FM sound, yeah I have a hard time understanding how one can dislike/hate him. He is/was responsible for keeping our favorite band together for 47 years, when others including Christine, Lindsey, AND Stevie weren't interested.

And without Hitler, we wouldn't have Volkswagen. Or the interstate highway system. Do I have to like Hitler too?

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by elle

but if these band members are over this, as they seem to be, i don't get why fans keep holding the grudge?

I don't hold a grudge against Mick. Frankly, I couldn't care less what he does or doesn't do. The question was asked, "Why do fans disdain Mick?" In my view, he has been disloyal to fellow band members and, to me, that shows a character flaw. It matters not to me whether those members have forgiven him. I hope they have. But their forgiveness doesn't change his character, does it?