Fire Imus?

[Für Elise]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Not nearly enough, IMO.


I never said, nor inferred, that "whites need to be punished". I think there is a lot more time needed to repair the damage that happened, that's all. It's very naive for anyone in 2007 to think that "everything is okay now" and that there is a level playing field for black Americans. Whether or not the current solutions have merit is a different conversation and the two are not necessarily related.

if anyone thinks that todays problems with minority groups that were enslaved or completely neglected in past has nothing to do with there problems now is just as stupid as 10 year old. like there needs to be a direct link of cause and effect in one single generation for the cause of the problem to be seen

theres nothing more annoying that someone who keeps talkingabout how wealthy they are (not talking about hte person i quoted) and how educated they are and how many nice hotels and fancy products they have, talking about taking welfare from the poorest communities to teach them to stand on there own two feet. just makes me want to punch that person. if you dont understand the cycle then you can't be that smart and just saying "oh honey........(something about being a lawyer)" doesn't cut it. you're just an ignorant fool.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Für Elise

if anyone thinks that todays problems with minority groups that were enslaved or completely neglected in past has nothing to do with there problems now is just as stupid as 10 year old. like there needs to be a direct link of cause and effect in one single generation for the cause of the problem to be seen

theres nothing more annoying that someone who keeps talkingabout how wealthy they are (not talking about hte person i quoted) and how educated they are and how many nice hotels and fancy products they have, talking about taking welfare from the poorest communities to teach them to stand on there own two feet. just makes me want to punch that person. if you dont understand the cycle then you can't be that smart and just saying "oh honey........(something about being a lawyer)" doesn't cut it. you're just an ignorant fool.

If you had bothered to ask me instead of attacking me, I would have told you this is how I know what I have seen:

I tutored minority (all black) children from the projects after school. Their parent or grand parent (none I tutored had a father that lived with them and many did not know who the father was) would thank me, cook for me, and do all these things out of gratitude for someone who took the time and effort to help them. These were people who were maids in the morning and worked in fast food rest. and the like until about 6:00 p.m. They could not afford day care and the state one was a war zone. So, this group formed many years ago to help them out and educate their kids, a deal lacking in the public school system. When they would bring me a home made pie or fried chicken I would cry because I knew they had taken $10.00 out of their day’s wages (about three hours worth to be exact) to honor the advantage I was giving their children to get out the projects. I wanted to refuse such gifts, but to do so would have offended them to no end. My volunteer work included being in the projects, which were essentially a war zone in New Orleans. I think that because of the good work my group was doing, we were left alone. Believe me when I tell you, I saw things that no human should ever see. I also saw these other adults doing nothing to get out of the welfare cycle they were on and doing nothing to get their kids into our program, which was easy to enter – all they had to do was sign up. Some of that resistance was because we were white – how pathetic is that? Further, the parents who participated in our program had nothing but contempt for the people who did nothing to ensure their children got the hell out of there. I will never forget one grandmother slapping her grandson across the face in front of me and telling him that unless he listened to me, he would wind up in jail just like his father and his grandfather (her husband) and her. When you see that, you are humbled to say the least. There are countless other experiences I could relate - but I think these suffice so you get my drift. I realize my experience was a small example, but my group was national and every other group had similar experiences. So, I think my rationale is supported by my experience, which again is that many people are trying to get off the public tit, but many are content to stay there. A review of my comments above in this thread and other threads will reveal I spoke poorly only of the latter and lauded the former - indeed I suggested the former be used as role models to fix the system that I think most everyone agrees is not working.

I also have worked in soup kitchens to feed the poor and infirm. This included preparing/packaging several hundred meals a day. I did it on Sat. and Sun. mornings (essentially my only down time) with a group of volunteers. I also spent time with these people when I delivered food to them. Almost all were on govt. aid of some sort and they told me their stories of how to fool the system. To be fair, many of these people had terminal illnesses.

Finally, I have donated, time, food, money, and clothing to charities to the point where I have won awards for organizing fund raisers and charity drives. Many of the people helping me in these were the poor people we were trying to raise money for. They were all good, honest, creative people who were openly working hard to change the stereotype of the multi-generational welfare moms that they knew were out there. They had nothing but bad things to say about these welfare multi-generational families. I think it is safe to say I have directly helped raise with various groups well over $500,000 for the poor and/or infirm.

So those examples (I have done way more) essentially are how I formed my opinions.

So, while you obviously picture me with venom and contempt enough to call me an “ignorant fool” and want to punch me - I thought you might like to know how I got my perspective.

What have you personally done for the poor to get your perspective?

On another note, the American Civil Rights movement was formed to right the wrongs of the past. That is why I and Tower said that. Moreover, I certainly agree with Tower's statement that no current playing field currently exists and that racism is still apparent. I never said anything to the contrary. If I did, please quote it. I was just saying things have vastly improved since 1964, when blacks and whites were not allowed to drink out of the same water fountains. Tower agreed with this. So, please stop putting words in my and apparently Tower's mouth.

[Für Elise]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

If you had bothered to ask me instead of attacking me, I would have told you this is how I know what I have seen:

I tutored minority (all black) children from the projects after school. Their parent or grand parent (none I tutored had a father that lived with them and many did not know who the father was) would thank me, cook for me, and do all these things out of gratitude for someone who took the time and effort to help them. These were people who were maids in the morning and worked in fast food rest. and the like until about 6:00 p.m. They could not afford day care and the state one was a war zone. So, this group formed many years ago to help them out and educate their kids, a deal lacking in the public school system. When they would bring me a home made pie or fried chicken I would cry because I knew they had taken $10.00 out of their day’s wages (about three hours worth to be exact) to honor the advantage I was giving their children to get out the projects. I wanted to refuse such gifts, but to do so would have offended them to no end. My volunteer work included being in the projects, which were essentially a war zone in New Orleans. I think that because of the good work my group was doing, we were left alone. Believe me when I tell you, I saw things that no human should ever see. I also saw these other adults doing nothing to get out of the welfare cycle they were on and doing nothing to get their kids into our program, which was easy to enter – all they had to do was sign up. Some of that resistance was because we were white – how pathetic is that? Further, the parents who participated in our program had nothing but contempt for the people who did nothing to ensure their children got the hell out of there. I will never forget one grandmother slapping her grandson across the face in front of me and telling him that unless he listened to me, he would wind up in jail just like his father and his grandfather (her husband) and her. When you see that, you are humbled to say the least. There are countless other experiences I could relate - but I think these suffice so you get my drift. I realize my experience was a small example, but my group was national and every other group had similar experiences. So, I think my rationale is supported by my experience, which again is that many people are trying to get off the public tit, but many are content to stay there. A review of my comments above in this thread and other threads will reveal I spoke poorly only of the latter and lauded the former - indeed I suggested the former be used as role models to fix the system that I think most everyone agrees is not working.

I also have worked in soup kitchens to feed the poor and infirm. This included preparing/packaging several hundred meals a day. I did it on Sat. and Sun. mornings (essentially my only down time) with a group of volunteers. I also spent time with these people when I delivered food to them. Almost all were on govt. aid of some sort and they told me their stories of how to fool the system. To be fair, many of these people had terminal illnesses.

Finally, I have donated, time, food, money, and clothing to charities to the point where I have won awards for organizing fund raisers and charity drives. Many of the people helping me in these were the poor people we were trying to raise money for. They were all good, honest, creative people who were openly working hard to change the stereotype of the multi-generational welfare moms that they knew were out there. They had nothing but bad things to say about these welfare multi-generational families. I think it is safe to say I have directly helped raise with various groups well over $500,000 for the poor and/or infirm.

So those examples (I have done way more) essentially are how I formed my opinions.

So, while you obviously picture me with venom and contempt enough to call me an “ignorant fool” and want to punch me - I thought you might like to know how I got my perspective.

What have you personally done for the poor to get your perspective?

On another note, the American Civil Rights movement was formed to right the wrongs of the past. That is why I and Tower said that. A brief google search will confirm what I say.

la la la. so you've seen things. so have many of us. that doesn't mean that you arent still ignorant about how the cycle causes the minorities to be in this position. what you have seen has nothing to do with any of this you still are acting as though they get themselves into this situation.

you want to talk about the poor? i've spent holidaying time in india and spent a lot of time with untouchables in bangalore not cause i went to be a humanitarian just cause i was there and found myself spending time there. and i know what its like when they give you a some piece of string made to look like a necklace to say thankyou cause its the only thing they can offer but they still do. i lived in belfast in the late 90s so you want to tell me about a warzone! and i briefly lived in kenya and just cause your the white rich ones doesn't mean you don't see everything. and i recently helped at an aboriginal medical center in the northern territory and if youve been there you'd know how those people are erased from the cencus they just don't exist for the australian government. theres lots of stuff I could talk about and say thats how i get my perspective but it doesn't matter if your talking about poor minorities not wanting to get themselves out of there situation and acting as though they put themselves there. you could have been brought up on the streets but if you said those same things youd still be ignorant about the situation

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by markolas

Ed Schultz (whom I like less every time I listen to him) was going on and on and on about this today. Imus' comments were obviously meant in jest and were not some racist tirade. I'm a little taken aback (and I probably shouldn't be) by the reaction of Sharpton, et al. You can't create a culture where this kind of language is acceptable and then get this up in arms when someone says something like what Imus said.

This is how kids of all races talk. "Whassup my niggaz," "I'm gonna slap that bitch-ass ho," etc. They do it because it's hip, and that's why Imus did it - he thought he was being hip or cute or whatever. Sharpton and Jackson need to direct their ire at the culture, not at Don Imus.

Imus isn't a kid. And the ones who were offended were the women on the basketball team. I recommend taking some time to get past the Sharpton/Jackson piece of this story and read what was said by the women.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Für Elise

la la la. so you've seen things. so have many of us. that doesn't mean that you arent still ignorant about how the cycle causes the minorities to be in this position. what you have seen has nothing to do with any of this you still are acting as though they get themselves into this situation.

you want to talk about the poor? i've spent holidaying time in india and spent a lot of time with untouchables in bangalore not cause i went to be a humanitarian just cause i was there and found myself spending time there. and i know what its like when they give you a some piece of string made to look like a necklace to say thankyou cause its the only thing they can offer but they still do. i lived in belfast in the late 90s so you want to tell me about a warzone! and i briefly lived in kenya and just cause your the white rich ones doesn't mean you don't see everything. and i recently helped at an aboriginal medical center in the northern territory and if youve been there you'd know how those people are erased from the cencus they just don't exist for the australian government. theres lots of stuff I could talk about and say thats how i get my perspective but it doesn't matter if your talking about poor minorities not wanting to get themselves out of there situation and acting as though they put themselves there. you could have been brought up on the streets but if you said those same things youd still be ignorant about the situation

I am glad you did these honorable things.

But and to the point, of course I can comment on what I have seen and relay the stories that the people in the situations told me. Have I ever been there myself - no I have not. But, that is hardly the point when I am saying that I saw people unwilling to pull themselves out of their situation and even more unwilling to educate their kids so they could get out - and heard the perspective of people who were doing things to better their children and the contempt they, not I, had for those people and their lack of motivation. I think you think that if a person is not from that, then they have right to comment on it. I think that is illogical.

Moreover, I think you think I am saying something to the effect of "let them eat cake" -- none of my posts even remotely suggested that position. Rather, I have consistently explained that there are people on welfare unwilling to get off of it and it is a problem in the system that needs to be fixed. For anyone to suggest that there are no people content to stay in the system because they do not have to work for their living is ignoring reality.

As for the cycles that keep them there - I think it is too simplistic to suggest that they are helpless - I think my position is supported by the people who are able to get out of the system. They apparently are able to break the cycle That is why I said they and what they did should be used as a way to overhaul the system.

[markolas]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

Imus isn't a kid. And the ones who were offended were the women on the basketball team. I recommend taking some time to get past the Sharpton/Jackson piece of this story and read what was said by the women.

If any of those women had even heard of Don Imus before this incident, I will eat a basketball.

[GODDESS6]

Originally Posted by markolas

If any of those women had even heard of Don Imus before this incident, I will eat a basketball.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by markolas

If any of those women had even heard of Don Imus before this incident, I will eat a basketball.

I know.

I read today where Imus lost s few large sponsors like Staples.

Hopefully, he learned his lesson and will watch what he says from now on.

[sara1998]

I guess what gets me about the whole thing is that Imus didn't say anything worse than 90% of the rappers out there... and no one's calling for the rappers to be fired....

It's all entertainment, right?

[skcin]

Originally Posted by skcin

Of course, even if they don't fire him, I'm sure many sponsers would flee.

Originally Posted by LukeA

Let him serve his two week suspension, and let that be it. He has apologized. No sponsor is going to "flee".

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I know.

I read today where Imus lost s few large sponsors like Staples.

Hopefully, he learned his lesson and will watch what he says from now on.

Just had to point this out.

Originally Posted by sara1998

I guess what gets me about the whole thing is that Imus didn't say anything worse than 90% of the rappers out there... and no one's calling for the rappers to be fired....

It's all entertainment, right?

The way I see it is that those rappers are referring to actual bitches & ho's. I mean, it sounds silly, but when they're rapping, you know damn well they're not referring to teachers or nurses or lawyers or whoever. They're referring to party girls, groupies, the easy girl from the neighborhood,etc.

Now. Imus said what he did about smart, well educated successful female athletes. They are beautiful & poised & well spoken (from what I saw of the news conference.) Referring to them as "nappy headed ho's" implies that no matter what they do, how much education they get, how well dressed they are, how successful they are, they're still nothing because they're black, or poor, or whatever. I'm not saying that's what he meant, but I can easily see that it was construed that way.

If it were me, and I were busting my ass to make something of myself and break down stereotypes and be a great role model for young girls, I'm be hurt & upset & pissed off if I felt that my accomplishments were being overlooked & I was being stereotyped because of my race.

[WildHeart69]

if Howard Stern had said this (pre-sirius) would anyone have cared?? No... not that I am defending him or think it was ok to say... I just think that Sharpton and Jackson are the ones who blow things out of proportion in so many cases.

[bikerchic]

"Nappy headed ho's". Brilliant. That's my new favourite saying. I called both my kids that this morning when they got out of bed. They just woke from a long "nap" and their hair was all messy. It just seemed appropriate

[skcin]

Originally Posted by WildHeart69

if Howard Stern had said this (pre-sirius) would anyone have cared?? No... not that I am defending him or think it was ok to say... I just think that Sharpton and Jackson are the ones who blow things out of proportion in so many cases.

Oh, I think people would have cared. They bitched about him saying & doing lesser things than this. I doubt Howard would have used the term in reference to this BBall team though - he would have had a bunch of dirty strippers on the Simmeon & called them that.

BTW - hubby was listening to Howard & at first, Howard said he didn't think Imus should be fired, then he wasn't sure. Of course, he hates Imus so he's not exactly impartial. He def. thinks Sharpton & the like should butt out.

Originally Posted by bikerchic

"Nappy headed ho's". Brilliant. That's my new favourite saying. I called both my kids that this morning when they got out of bed. They just woke from a long "nap" and their hair was all messy. It just seemed appropriate

It is bound to become part of our vocabulary - ala' Sugar Tits.

[TwistedGypsy]

I'm curious about something. I didn't get to watch the Rutgers speech but did any of the white female players say anything? I wonder if they were offended?

[skcin]

Originally Posted by TwistedGypsy

I'm curious about something. I didn't get to watch the Rutgers speech but did any of the white female players say anything? I wonder if they were offended?

Yes, they did and yes, they were. Said it took away from their accomplishments as a team.