Ask HejiraNYC

[KarmaContestant]

Dear HejiraNYC,

There is a program manager at my job that I utterly detest. He's difficult to work with, demanding beyond what I consider to be reasonable (I'm very easy going and do my best to accomodate everyone). I swear this man hates me, and he made sure that I took the blame for an accounting error on a large project that happened long before I was assigned to the project...but that's another story.

Anyway, this fellow is powerful and very high ranking within our organization. There are several other individuals who share my position that he could choose to work with, including some in his own office (he is in an East Coast state - I am not) but it seems that everytime he needs someone to handle one of his projects - he reaches out and chooses me, much to my chagrin. I am not permitted to refuse. We've never met, and I'm not sure why he reaches out to me, since he has made it clear that he thinks I'm not as good as other individuals he has worked with.

I am not a lazy person, and I do enjoy being challenged at work; however there is a very fine line between being challenged and being tormented, and I consider working with him to lean closer to torment than challenge. My own direct supervisor doesn't seem to be interested in my disdain for this fellow, and makes sure to completely avoid having any involvement in our working relationship...in sum, he is no help.

As it turns out, our organization is going to be splitting. One group would have this fellow in it, and the other will not. It is not yet determined which group I will be assigned to, but I have already decided that if I end up in his group I am out of here faster than a cat scaling a fence to escape a pack of barking dogs. Am I being rash in my decision making? Am I just being a wussy about this? Is it inappropriate in this economic climate to leave a job you love just because you hate one person you must work with?

Thanks for your advice,
KC

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

Dear HejiraNYC,

There is a program manager at my job that I utterly detest. He's difficult to work with, demanding beyond what I consider to be reasonable (I'm very easy going and do my best to accomodate everyone). I swear this man hates me, and he made sure that I took the blame for an accounting error on a large project that happened long before I was assigned to the project...but that's another story.

Anyway, this fellow is powerful and very high ranking within our organization. There are several other individuals who share my position that he could choose to work with, including some in his own office (he is in an East Coast state - I am not) but it seems that everytime he needs someone to handle one of his projects - he reaches out and chooses me, much to my chagrin. I am not permitted to refuse. We've never met, and I'm not sure why he reaches out to me, since he has made it clear that he thinks I'm not as good as other individuals he has worked with.

I am not a lazy person, and I do enjoy being challenged at work; however there is a very fine line between being challenged and being tormented, and I consider working with him to lean closer to torment than challenge. My own direct supervisor doesn't seem to be interested in my disdain for this fellow, and makes sure to completely avoid having any involvement in our working relationship...in sum, he is no help.

As it turns out, our organization is going to be splitting. One group would have this fellow in it, and the other will not. It is not yet determined which group I will be assigned to, but I have already decided that if I end up in his group I am out of here faster than a cat scaling a fence to escape a pack of barking dogs. Am I being rash in my decision making? Am I just being a wussy about this? Is it inappropriate in this economic climate to leave a job you love just because you hate one person you must work with?

Thanks for your advice,
KC

Dear KC,

The first and most important thing to remember is that water always finds its own level. I don't know what that has to do with this situation, but I like the way it sounds.

Not to digress, but I have just recently been in a situation similar to the one you described. After being unemployed for a number of months last year, a headhunter called me about a six-month contracting gig. I would normally wrinkle my nose at such a thing. But the hourly rate was sick and it wasn't like the world was clamoring to add me to their workforce. So I figured it would buy me some time before deciding on my next move, so I took it. Cutting to the chase, the gig was a disaster. I wasn't just working with a micro-manager; she was a nano-manager. If I said "up," she'd say "down." If I said "black," she'd say "white." We did not see eye-to-eye on anything. And quite honestly, she is a seriously emotionally disturbed person who lacks empathy or the ability to think critically. In a nutshell, I just could not win. I could only do what I felt was right in my own estimation and hope to do as well as I could under the circumstances. Nevertheless, she broke me and rode me like an Arabian horse. Rather than being bitter or resisting, I just accepted the situation for what it was: I was working for someone who is daft and beyond reasoning; you can't argue with stupid. I eventually became quite good at picking my battles. At the end of the day, sometimes it's just not worth the aggravation to be right all the time.

Five months into this gig, I already had an exit strategy. I was going to get in my car, point it west and just drive around the country for a couple of months. After that... who knows?

One day I was called into HR. I wasn't quite sure what it was about. I was basically told that they wanted to offer me a permanent position with the company. I was floored. Not because I was particularly happy (since I had already set my sights on touring the country). I was floored because, as far as I could tell, I thought my boss hated my guts. But the HR person basically told me that my boss was insistent that I be hired without hesitation. In 5+ months I did not receive a single word of gratitude or positive reinforcement, yet I was the one she wanted in the end.

The lesson in all of this, and the reason why I bring all of this up? Things are not always as they seem. Your program manager strikes me as being the same kind of person- difficult, demanding and very lacking in the qualities that make good leaders- the ability to listen, reason, show empathy and provide positive/constructive feedback. And the fact that he insists on choosing you for his projects is telling. He likes you. He appreciates the work you do. But he will never tell you that. If anything, you should take it as a badge of honor that he pays attention to you; even though it is unpleasant, it is better than being ignored.

Before deciding on your next move if/when he joins your division, perhaps it would be a good idea to have a very frank discussion with the program manager about your working dynamics. Perhaps he is unaware of your perception of him and vice-versa. I had a similar discussion, and it was quite cathartic for me as well as very informative. You may have more leverage in the situation than you realize.

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Dear KC,

The lesson in all of this, and the reason why I bring all of this up? Things are not always as they seem. Your program manager strikes me as being the same kind of person- difficult, demanding and very lacking in the qualities that make good leaders- the ability to listen, reason, show empathy and provide positive/constructive feedback. And the fact that he insists on choosing you for his projects is telling. He likes you. He appreciates the work you do. But he will never tell you that. If anything, you should take it as a badge of honor that he pays attention to you; even though it is unpleasant, it is better than being ignored.

Before deciding on your next move if/when he joins your division, perhaps it would be a good idea to have a very frank discussion with the program manager about your working dynamics. Perhaps he is unaware of your perception of him and vice-versa. I had a similar discussion, and it was quite cathartic for me as well as very informative. You may have more leverage in the situation than you realize.

Thank you! If I end up in his operating unit, I just may have to consider sitting down and talking to him. Your perception is most appreciated, and lends a different perspective I had not considered previously. Again, thanks. I don't feel quite so bad about having to work with him more frequently.

[1sttimelongtime]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Tell me she's not a real person. Your post was fictional, right?

No, that post was not fictional. This woman explains her behavior by saying that the only time she was happy in her life was when she was four years old, and mentally she will always be four. She tells some horrific stories of abuse that she claims to have suffered.

I must say, reading KarmaContestant's post has made me realize I have nothing to complain about! No one yells at me, I'm free to do my own thing and think my own thoughts. I just need to tune out the background noise a little better.

[markolas]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

I don't think there's any such thing as a useless degree. Would you enjoy taking the classes? Can you do it without incurring excessive debt? If words are your passion then it's a good idea. If they're not then forget it. Follow your passion. If you don't know what it is find it. You probably already know what it is but may have told yourself it's not possible or practical. Working just for a paycheck is no way to live.

I like my job and work with a lot of English majors. However, most don't make any money and are essentially admins keeping the books on schedule :blech:. I work with computer software textbooks. The only people that really make money are the writers and editors. You could consider getting into this industry, then you can be technical but not have to become a programmer. Also, the grammar and such of techie authors can be awful so having editors with strong English backgrounds is awesome.

Doing this kind of work you get to be very independent and have little supervision. I work from home a lot. Many of our authors are teachers, that could be a great job if it interests you. If you're teaching and writing books that is a really good income. Where there's a will there's a way. Practice persistence. Also, when people tell you it's not possible or you can't do it they're wrong. Forget what the naysayers say.

I'd enjoy the classes very much, and I wouldn't be incurring any debt, so that's not an issue. When it comes down to it, I would much rather have a job I enjoyed where I had a good working relationship with superiors, than make a gaggle of money. Sky-high income has never been a priority for me (which most people I encounter don't seem to understand at all).

I've gone back & forth on whether I'm interested in teaching or not. It might be a moot point, b/c teaching jobs, at least in TX, are becoming increasingly hard to come by.

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

The lesson in all of this, and the reason why I bring all of this up? Things are not always as they seem. Your program manager strikes me as being the same kind of person- difficult, demanding and very lacking in the qualities that make good leaders- the ability to listen, reason, show empathy and provide positive/constructive feedback. And the fact that he insists on choosing you for his projects is telling. He likes you. He appreciates the work you do. But he will never tell you that. If anything, you should take it as a badge of honor that he pays attention to you; even though it is unpleasant, it is better than being ignored.

I cannot deal with bosses like this, and as far as the bolded goes - I would much rather be left the hell alone than be subjected to constant assholishness on the part of a manager or supervisor. After dealing with a completely toxic work environment for a year, I was left with absolutely zero tolerance for dickwadedness of any kind - and in the years since, I've gotten really good at walking off of jobs when confronted with it. I am D-O-N-E putting up with it.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by 1sttimelongtime

No, that post was not fictional. This woman explains her behavior by saying that the only time she was happy in her life was when she was four years old, and mentally she will always be four. She tells some horrific stories of abuse that she claims to have suffered.

This is really unprofessional. Why isn't her supervisor taking action to stop her from doing this at work? It's disturbing behavior and you shouldn't have to put up with it.

Originally Posted by 1sttimelongtime

I must say, reading KarmaContestant's post has made me realize I have nothing to complain about! No one yells at me, I'm free to do my own thing and think my own thoughts. I just need to tune out the background noise a little better.

We all have annoyances we need to talk about. My boss overshares with me all the time telling me about his work, and occasionally personal, issues. But if I talk about my actual work issues, which are his JOB to help manage, he can get very pissy. Dysfunctional people display their stuff all over the workplace but it's up to managers to set the boundaries for the work environment.

[markolas]

Ugh. I used to work with a lady whose husband beat the crap out of her on a regular basis. She'd come to work with black eyes, bruises on her arms...he even broke her wrist once. Finally, she came in one day and it looked like he'd hit her in the face with a frying pan or something...but no, it was just his fist (apparently he dislocated his arm when he did it). The manager made her go home, and she finally left the scumbag after that.

[fumidesigns]

i would ask a question..............but i'd be banned

i'll ask at the concert!

[daniellaaarisen]

Will Stevie Nicks announce more tour dates (particularly in California) or does she find it funny to make me fly all around the country for her?!

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by daniellaaarisen

Will Stevie Nicks announce more tour dates (particularly in California) or does she find it funny to make me fly all around the country for her?!

Not to derail Ed's thread, but which shows are you planning on hitting?

[daniellaaarisen]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Not to derail Ed's thread, but which shows are you planning on hitting?

Red Rocks is definite and I'm trying to make Jones Beach happen. MAYBE Chicago if I can swing it but it will likely be Red Rocks and Jones Beach.

Louie, go to Red Rocks. You can make a road trip out of it.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by daniellaaarisen

Louie, go to Red Rocks. You can make a road trip out of it.

I'd be there in an instant if I knew I could $wing it. Maybe I need to revert to the world's oldest profession.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by markolas

I'd enjoy the classes very much, and I wouldn't be incurring any debt, so that's not an issue. When it comes down to it, I would much rather have a job I enjoyed where I had a good working relationship with superiors, than make a gaggle of money. Sky-high income has never been a priority for me (which most people I encounter don't seem to understand at all).

Do it. Unless you already have another type of degree, do you? At least according to Suze Orman, multiple degrees and/or advanced degrees often do not have a good return on investment. People that don't understand why you don't want to make tons of money over enjoying your work don't get it now but they will after they've done a vapid job for years just for the money. Personally I couldn't do a job I didn't enjoy.

Originally Posted by markolas

I've gone back & forth on whether I'm interested in teaching or not. It might be a moot point, b/c teaching jobs, at least in TX, are becoming increasingly hard to come by.

Yeah that's a good point, it's not exactly an inviting field right now.

Originally Posted by markolas

I cannot deal with bosses like this, and as far as the bolded goes - I would much rather be left the hell alone than be subjected to constant assholishness on the part of a manager or supervisor. After dealing with a completely toxic work environment for a year, I was left with absolutely zero tolerance for dickwadedness of any kind - and in the years since, I've gotten really good at walking off of jobs when confronted with it. I am D-O-N-E putting up with it.

Yeah life is way too short for this. I'm working toward a more independent career but until then I have to put up with my boss. We have a remote working culture so I don't have to interact with him all that much so that makes it bearable. Still when it is bad it is very bad so waiting for the other shoe to drop at times can really suck.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I'd be there in an instant if I knew I could $wing it. Maybe I need to revert to the world's oldest profession.

Word. I'd love to go to Red Rocks, never been.

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by 1sttimelongtime

No, that post was not fictional. This woman explains her behavior by saying that the only time she was happy in her life was when she was four years old, and mentally she will always be four. She tells some horrific stories of abuse that she claims to have suffered.

Oh dear. I have heard of the link between women who speak like little girls and childhood sexual abuse. I would be shocked to hear someone who does it admit that's why they do it. Meaning, if she has THAT much insight, one would think she wouldn't share it inappropriately.

I love this thread.