Wal-Mart's political blunders

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

^^

Please provide support for this arguement. The article I quoted above indicates WalMart employees do work there and expect that

I get that people may be free to go someplace else, but not everyone has the ability to take up that so called option. For example, where else is the 67 year old greet in the article above going to go? Who is going to hire her? Apparently, she was going a good job for WalMart though.

Out of curiosity, do you acknowledge that WalMart does anything bad to its employees?

On edit -- all companies do bad things to their employees. But, that does not make it right GThe topic of this thread was WalMart, not Target or those other companies

Walmart, however, is singled out among those other stores that do the same things. If someone thinks Walmart is a career, something is seriously wrong. It's just common sense. No one sits around and thinks, "hmmm, I should work at that Walmart place that has a such a bad reputation for low pay. I'm a-gonna work there and make it BIG!" Anyone who thinks that is demonstrating the reason why after a lifetime of experience they are still working for minimum wage jobs.

Why is it Walmart's obligation to provide benefits? It really isn't. It's our own responsibility. Just because a majority of employers do doesn't mean it should be expected. The reason a lot of employers do is to get the best of the best workers. When you aren't the best of the best, you work somewhere like Walmart, unless you're just filling in employment space until you find something better. Also, there are low cost catastrophic plans like Washington State's "Lifewise" or many other low income health benefits. If you are being solely supported by Walmart's salary, chances are that you qualify for some sort of medical aid.

Remember, we do live in a country where student loans are plentiful, student grants and scholarships are just as plentiful, and you can qualify for a variety of aid while you go to school. You can make yourself someone desirable to those other companies that offer benefits. Steven Covey offered the best advice for any American, which is "sharpen the saw".

Of course I think employers do bad things. I had a grand total of $15,000.00 stolen from me by employers over the last three years. I had to sue one of them, with the other guy, he was so out of money and had so many other suits against him I'd have had to stand in line.

[Bella Figura]

count me on the Walmart is ruining American culture side (though the whole lower classes living with dignity concept really lasted only around 60 years (1935-1995??))

I feel sooo bad sorry for the poor people who have to buy food for their families at Walmart. The quality of their produce and meat is just plain awful...my retired in-laws(fixed income retired) drag me there when they need to shop. Once, I became physically ill looking at their wilted aged lettuce grown God knows where and smelling like chemicals coming out of the crates onto the shelf as I shopped.

I know personally know people who no longer have the choice of where to shop or work because Walmart came to their small town. way back in the 80's... I worked at a large corp who had a factory out in the Midwest. and over time, I listened to stories over the phone as my coworkers families lost their businesses, lost their farms and they felt lucky since they had this factory job. The factory closed and moved to Mexico in the 90's...that lovely small town must now be a pale shadow...

WalMart came to my neck of the woods in the 90's, but I already knew from previous experience what would happen...I now work in public sector and am proud to be Union!!

"Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck or just see the movie...Henry Fonda...

[ajmccarrell]

Walmart likely had nothing to do with your plant closing. They generally buy from the same suppliers everywhere. Try looking up "consumer surplus" and you'll have an idea of what I'm talking about. I'm fairly well off and I still shop at Walmart. Granted that their produce doesn't last as long as buying it from a farmer's market, but in all of the Walmarts I have shopped in in about 20 states, I have NEVER seen what you are describing. The meat and produce is generally just fine. There have been a couple of days where it did seem old, perhaps you were in on an off-day?

If the factories closed down, it likely was because their stuff was just plain too expensive for resalers. This is why I dislike unions. Companies like Walmart and the lack of unions cause deflation and more market efficiency, which increases consumer surplus, or at least maintains the same ratio of money to goods and services. Unions are a cost push inflation that drives up production costs by more than the pay raises, typically. They severely limit the ability of a company to be agile in the face of competition. It creates a monopsonistic situation with labor factors, which is the cause of the inefficiency. Look at what has happened to Ford and GM, it is largely because their cars are too expensive because their labor force is too expensive. If you like your manufacturing job, learn the meaning of restrain with union contracts and the true costs of labor. This is why minimum wage hikes don't work. Because of the marginal cost of labor, companies have to raise their prices by more than the wage hike to maintain the same level of profitability, or in the cases of most manufacturing facilities in the US, unprofitability. The net result is that consumers can get substitute goods much cheaper elsewhere. Raising prices is typically all that companies can do to keep afloat and compete with companies overseas. The solution is to lower the costs of factors of production, not raise them, which is what unions don't get. It's very simple.

The problem is that all of the mom & pop retailers you were talking about were vastly more expensive, because of the basic principle I explained above. Walmart coming in provided savings to poor people. Do you want the poor people to not be able to buy as much food or stuff for their homes?

If you were to look at macro figures for towns where Walmart has come in, the GDP of each small town has gone up, not down. Any time there is efficiency in any market, some people will lose their jobs. It happens. But because of that, the other people in the community can raise their standard of living.

Try reading Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. You can find online texts. It summarizes in one book what many years of school taught me. Don't let the title fool you, "the lesson" is some 150 pages long. Hazlitt was a good pal of Ayn Rand and of Alan Greenspan. He's a little more on the intellectual side than any Fonda would be. John Steinbeck was also a communist, "Steinbeck's literary background brought him into close collaboration with leftist authors, journalists, and labor union figures, who may have influenced his writing. Steinbeck was mentored by radical writers Lincoln Steffens and his wife Ella Winter, and through Francis Whitaker, a member of the United States Communist Party’s John Reed Club for writers, Steinbeck met with strike organizers from the Cannery and Agricultural Workers' Industrial Union.[" (wikipedia, John Steinbeck)

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

Did you know that Ludovico Beethoven's sensitive & esteemed patron, His Royal Highness the Archduke Rudolph, was once caught dressing in women's panties?

You are so bad --- where is that march?

[Bella Figura]

I'm glad to see we have common ground regarding quality. I am a big advocate of empirical data not intellectual theorey by others since one can always find something somebody wrote to support any point or idea...

I can totally see from your past experiences (as evidenced by your history posts on the Stevie Nicks board) how you would not be into roots and community. keeping on the move and not forming attachments is a good life strategy for you...Rush, Monica and Sean must keep you company as you travel and they are very entertaining...

my post related a personal case study. but I can see how you might have picked up the implication that the plant closed because of Walmart but I did not say that...

there are positives to unions and mom/pop establishments which are worth researching on a both theoretical and empirical basis...quality being just one...

lol, John Steinbeck may have been a communist but he was an American. and aren't the Chinese still "officially" communist...i must admit I do have communist leanings...but the reality is that human greed will always rears it's ugly head in any utopian society...

[Bella Figura]

I’ve got a perfect example of quality. Today is Sunday so we popped off to our local bakery which is now one town over and about a 20 minute round trip by car. We bought a fresh out of the oven pound-cake. It was still on the rolling racks, not on the shelf. It was lovely. It was rich but the center remained light and airy. The crust top was carmelized to perfection, spingy but firm to the tooth. A pound cake uses a pound of butter but never should taste like it all heavy and greasy…

My local Walmart has a bakery...I don’t believe a young person has the patience to whip the batter to perfection pulling in air to make the froth before baking. And a laid off person in between jobs has better worries to focus on…but this family owned bakery this morning had one job this morning to bake to perfection…and of course, then chat about it with appreciative customers like me!!! please note like the old fashioned bakeries of the depression, food is half price after 5PM...

I roasted my coffee beans, I set out my local made jam from the farm market, set my table on my back porch, ok I was a little too lazy to use the good china but I lived like a human being this morning…ahhh to dream and wish everyone could do the same...

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by Bella Figura

I'm glad to see we have common ground regarding quality. I am a big advocate of empirical data not intellectual theorey by others since one can always find something somebody wrote to support any point or idea...

I can totally see from your past experiences (as evidenced by your history posts on the Stevie Nicks board) how you would not be into roots and community. keeping on the move and not forming attachments is a good life strategy for you...Rush, Monica and Sean must keep you company as you travel and they are very entertaining...

my post related a personal case study. but I can see how you might have picked up the implication that the plant closed because of Walmart but I did not say that...

there are positives to unions and mom/pop establishments which are worth researching on a both theoretical and empirical basis...quality being just one...

lol, John Steinbeck may have been a communist but he was an American. and aren't the Chinese still "officially" communist...i must admit I do have communist leanings...but the reality is that human greed will always rears it's ugly head in any utopian society...

You have totally misjudged me. I don't travel a lot anymore and I'm very into roots and community. I don't listen to Sean Hannity and I don't know who "Monica" is. I do listen to Rush, more for the entertainment factor than anything. I generally do shop at farmer's markets for my produce and when I need a quick snack or a drink, I generally go to mom & pop establishments. My macro economic view is that they don't add as much to the GDP of a community as much as Walmart does. Walmart can afford to employ about 100 people in a given town that were most likely only working one job, or were previosuly unemployed. Most mom & pop stores don't employ much of anyone beyond immediate family and the dollars of the other families in community don't buy as much as they would at Walmart. I do value community and am building a home in the suburb of Lake Stevens, near Seattle.

I do agree on utopian societies, the general fallacy with socialism or communism is that human nature is their weakness, whereas with capitalism, it exploits human nature in an "ethical egoism" context. Communism allows someone to get rich at someone else's expense and punishes success and excellence, whereas capitalism allows you to become wealthy by serving your fellow man and (generally, not always) rewards hard work and excellence. Capitlism is more social darwinism.

[Bella Figura]

and so the human experiment continues...how long do you think we got??

I'm very glad to hear you are building a home.

Monica Crowley is the radio version of Anne Coulter (sp?). She is a total riot!!

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by Bella Figura

and so the human experiment continues...how long do you think we got??

I'm very glad to hear you are building a home.

Monica Crowley is the radio version of Anne Coulter (sp?). She is a total riot!!

Hmm! I've never heard of her. I think Anne Coulter is the only other woman my wife would be glad if I slept with.

[Bella Figura]

so now you have two of the five on your free pass list!!

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Bella Figura

I’ve got a perfect example of quality. Today is Sunday so we popped off to our local bakery which is now one town over and about a 20 minute round trip by car. We bought a fresh out of the oven pound-cake. It was still on the rolling racks, not on the shelf. It was lovely. It was rich but the center remained light and airy. The crust top was carmelized to perfection, spingy but firm to the tooth. A pound cake uses a pound of butter but never should taste like it all heavy and greasy…

My local Walmart has a bakery...I don’t believe a young person has the patience to whip the batter to perfection pulling in air to make the froth before baking. And a laid off person in between jobs has better worries to focus on…but this family owned bakery this morning had one job this morning to bake to perfection…and of course, then chat about it with appreciative customers like me!!! please note like the old fashioned bakeries of the depression, food is half price after 5PM...

I roasted my coffee beans, I set out my local made jam from the farm market, set my table on my back porch, ok I was a little too lazy to use the good china but I lived like a human being this morning…ahhh to dream and wish everyone could do the same...

You are making me hungry.

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by David

Did you know that Ludovico Beethoven's sensitive & esteemed patron, His Royal Highness the Archduke Rudolph, was once caught dressing in women's panties?

I love you "David"
I cannot believe the stuff that you come up with...and I have no doubt of its truth
You are a funny , intellectually imiaganative man, whose scope of fact and figures...
Fascinates me!!!!
I always look forward to your contribution to any thread.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge of the obscure....
well at least it is obscure to me
Anna