A post from "Jesusland"

[SuzeQuze]

Yes, that was a beautiful post, I love Degee!!

Originally Posted by dissention

Tell the gal what she's won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JamieSPC]

Thank you, Alison. Well said.

The quick rash of posts following mine managed to prove my point quickly and aptly.

No one here knows me, and thereby has no business assuming anything about me. Yet, because I say I'm a Christian and a Republican, already I've been:

--labeled a "Biblethumper"
--automatically assumed as a Bush voter
--told to "post articles" to support my position, as if all of us aren't smart enough to do it ourselves
--again, without KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT ME, talk about discrimination, hating gays, and having no regard for the less fortunate while I roll in piles of money
--and, incredibly, someone actually said it makes you feel better to "bash and demean" those you are against.

Since liberal Democrats are all about reaching across the "divide," how about getting to know me or people like me?

POLITICS: People who voted for John McCain in the primaries. People who believe (like most Republicans, and like our platform says) that the Federal government has no business in the private lives (or wallets) of individuals one way or the other. People who believe that churches, synagogues and mosques should have the same Federal support in helping the poor and needy (our God-given responsibility) that organizations like Planned Parenthood do.

RELIGION: People who understand and live by Jesus' teaching, and ONLY Jesus' teaching, not man-made doctrine or denominations. People who grew up in the VERY real intolerance of the Rural South and have come to reject much of their upbringing. People like my parents, who I've seen cry over their ballot because they can't decide which is more important: the life of an unborn child or the fundamental right of a woman to govern her own body.

Get to know me. There are a lot of us out here in "Jesusland" (and yes, that's the most hateful, sarcastic, offensive signature I've seen here at The Ledge... less for the words than for the idea behind them).

[dissention]

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

--labeled a "Biblethumper"

Sounds like a case of someone filtering things to suit their argument.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

--and, incredibly, someone actually said it makes you feel better to "bash and demean" those you are against.

That is NOT what I said....but perhaps it came across that way

First off - NO ONE here is accussing you directly or judging you - I don't believe anyone has called you a Bible-thumper...perhaps I missed something...

I was simply trying to explain the difference between who these people are mad about - the religious right - the extremists who do everything BUT show God's love or any Christianity in their actions...

It seems as though you're taking things WAY to personally ....I'm a Christian, I'm a liberal....yes, some on this board don't agree or even like my religion, and I also don't like to see it dragged through the mud - but I have pretty much caught on that they're pretty much talking about a specific group of religious folks - and not all of them in general...

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by dissention

Sounds like a case of someone filtering things to suit their argument.

Incidentally - this person has also not addressed any questions or anything addressed to said person...hmmm

[dissention]

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

No one here knows me, and thereby has no business assuming anything about me.

Get to know me.

I love these statements. I think it's very telling that you posted about the politics of others, invited "flaming," or whatever you call it, then conveniently leave out every detail of your own politics. Very slick. Seems to me that if anyone assumes anything about you, it's because you left the door open yourself by introducing yourself as a Christian Republican who dislikes the way we talk politics without any exposition about yourself.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Incidentally - this person has also not addressed any questions or anything addressed to said person...hmmm

That's because they are too busy complaining that liberal Democrats don't reach out to them instead of posting their political beliefs while complaining about others. It boggles the mind. It also mystifies me as to why all the "reaching out" should be done by liberals and Democrats.

[SuzeQuze]

Well, with all due repect JamieSPC, you invited flames. This whole thread is antagonistic to blue staters. The intention seems to be to "stir the pot". Please tell us what you are "for" as opposed to what you are against. I don't know what the point of this is. You say you are misrepresented, so please represent. Who are you?

It may be difficult from your perspective to understand the level of rage and disillusionment that is caused by this president being re-elected. Wed the 3rd was so depressing to us. It was like being in a nightmare but not being able to wake up. It is difficult to understand how people could swallow all of the lies of this administration. Actually, it is impossible to understand from a liberal perspective. It just so happens that the "red states" did this. So we have to talk about "them" and try to understand. We have to try to comprehend the incomprehensible.

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

Thank you, Alison. Well said.

The quick rash of posts following mine managed to prove my point quickly and aptly.

No one here knows me, and thereby has no business assuming anything about me. Yet, because I say I'm a Christian and a Republican, already I've been:

--labeled a "Biblethumper"
--automatically assumed as a Bush voter
--told to "post articles" to support my position, as if all of us aren't smart enough to do it ourselves
--again, without KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT ME, talk about discrimination, hating gays, and having no regard for the less fortunate while I roll in piles of money
--and, incredibly, someone actually said it makes you feel better to "bash and demean" those you are against.

Since liberal Democrats are all about reaching across the "divide," how about getting to know me or people like me?

POLITICS: People who voted for John McCain in the primaries. People who believe (like most Republicans, and like our platform says) that the Federal government has no business in the private lives (or wallets) of individuals one way or the other. People who believe that churches, synagogues and mosques should have the same Federal support in helping the poor and needy (our God-given responsibility) that organizations like Planned Parenthood do.

RELIGION: People who understand and live by Jesus' teaching, and ONLY Jesus' teaching, not man-made doctrine or denominations. People who grew up in the VERY real intolerance of the Rural South and have come to reject much of their upbringing. People like my parents, who I've seen cry over their ballot because they can't decide which is more important: the life of an unborn child or the fundamental right of a woman to govern her own body.

Get to know me. There are a lot of us out here in "Jesusland" (and yes, that's the most hateful, sarcastic, offensive signature I've seen here at The Ledge... less for the words than for the idea behind them).

[JamieSPC]

dissention,

You're right... I think it's telling, too. It tells me what I believe our biggest problem to be.

IMMEDIATELY, without asking or seemingly (and notice I said SEEMINGLY) caring, "Christian Republican" means "bigot, idiot, gay-hater, Bush supporter, religious right, Fallwell-watcher" etc. Just as to many, "gay" or "pro-choice" have their own degrading definitions. It's not even discussed. It's ASSUMED IMMEDIATELY.

And it's MY FAULT because I "opened the door" to this ridicule, as if I somehow deserve to be ridiculed in the first place!

Yeah, it was a trap. And I didn't mean to crash the party here, but PLEASE, don't forget the "other side" isn't always evil and intent on sending our country to "hell in a handbasket." Everybody in "Jesusland" isn't a hateful, simmering bigot or a festering idiot.

And the point of this, as asked by Suze, is to say that working out your frustrations with insults and (let's just call it what it is) outright hatred is not acceptable. There's been enough of it on both sides that no one in this argument has clean hands.

That's why I was depressed on November 3.

[ontheEdgeof17]

This thread is one reason why I don't believe in organized religion. I grew up in a Lutheran church. We were constantly bashed by other churches in the area because we were "too liberal" and "not Christian enough" because we do not believe in being "saved" in order to get to heaven. Lutherans believe that baptism is the only "saving" a person needs. People would beg me to come to their church in order to be saved. They thought they were "right".

Now, I have formed my own beliefs on the concept of God, and I feel spiritually healthy. That's all that matters, right? Having a faith that carries you through the day.....

I'm done with people telling me what to do and how to act to be a Christian. Everyone thinks they are right and quite possibly they could not be. All I know is that God loves me....gay, liberal, and all.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

dissention,

You're right... I think it's telling, too. It tells me what I believe our biggest problem to be.

IMMEDIATELY, without asking or seemingly (and notice I said SEEMINGLY) caring, "Christian Republican" means "bigot, idiot, gay-hater, Bush supporter, religious right, Fallwell-watcher" etc. Just as to many, "gay" or "pro-choice" have their own degrading definitions. It's not even discussed. It's ASSUMED IMMEDIATELY.

And it's MY FAULT because I "opened the door" to this ridicule, as if I somehow deserve to be ridiculed in the first place!

Yeah, it was a trap. And I didn't mean to crash the party here, but PLEASE, don't forget the "other side" isn't always evil and intent on sending our country to "hell in a handbasket." Everybody in "Jesusland" isn't a hateful, simmering bigot or a festering idiot.

Nor did I say they were. But certainly, if you were in my "loony" liberal, blue state shoes, you would be quite incredudlous as to the intent of a thread started by someone who describes themselves as a Christian Republican in Alabama and who calls out the "Blue Staters." Surely you see how your thread came off and surely you know that the intent of your thread was not only to piss us off, but to invite flames so that you could sit back and claim that we simply proved your point.

Get over yourself, self-righteousness is an unbecoming personality trait.

[JamieSPC]

Yep, Curtis. I've all but abandoned denominational religion. I see no provision for it in the Bible, and it seems that's where most "religious" people have to line up instead of thinking for themselves.

I go to church, for sure. I've been blessed enough to find a place, and a commmunity of people, who love me for who I am and encourage individual study over mindless indoctrination.

Like Paul said... "work out your own salvation."

[sara1998]

First off, this is not intended for one party or the other. It's intended to be read by both. Maybe I'm shallow minded, or don't enjoy a debate with my fellow posters, but this is what the conversation of religion and politics will always lead to. Everyone has their own opinions and beliefs. There is no right or wrong in either. Therefore, my OPINION is that religion and politics are somewhat overdiscussed here, and therefore leads to endless arguements, and some hurt feelings. Can't we all accept that everyone here has a difference of opinion, without everyone getting so pissed off?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

Thank you, Alison. Well said.

The quick rash of posts following mine managed to prove my point quickly and aptly.

No one here knows me, and thereby has no business assuming anything about me. Yet, because I say I'm a Christian and a Republican, already I've been:

--labeled a "Biblethumper"
--automatically assumed as a Bush voter
--told to "post articles" to support my position, as if all of us aren't smart enough to do it ourselves
--again, without KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT ME, talk about discrimination, hating gays, and having no regard for the less fortunate while I roll in piles of money
--and, incredibly, someone actually said it makes you feel better to "bash and demean" those you are against.

Since liberal Democrats are all about reaching across the "divide," how about getting to know me or people like me?

POLITICS: People who voted for John McCain in the primaries. People who believe (like most Republicans, and like our platform says) that the Federal government has no business in the private lives (or wallets) of individuals one way or the other. People who believe that churches, synagogues and mosques should have the same Federal support in helping the poor and needy (our God-given responsibility) that organizations like Planned Parenthood do.

RELIGION: People who understand and live by Jesus' teaching, and ONLY Jesus' teaching, not man-made doctrine or denominations. People who grew up in the VERY real intolerance of the Rural South and have come to reject much of their upbringing. People like my parents, who I've seen cry over their ballot because they can't decide which is more important: the life of an unborn child or the fundamental right of a woman to govern her own body.

Get to know me. There are a lot of us out here in "Jesusland" (and yes, that's the most hateful, sarcastic, offensive signature I've seen here at The Ledge... less for the words than for the idea behind them).

With all due respect, I never assumed as such

[amber]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

It is difficult to understand how people could swallow all of the lies of this administration. Actually, it is impossible to understand from a liberal perspective. It just so happens that the "red states" did this. So we have to talk about "them" and try to understand. We have to try to comprehend the incomprehensible.

Yeah, for me, it hard understand how ANYONE, liberal, repub, whatever, can stand for the lies of this administration. Jamie, you should be up in arms as an American for what the Bush administration has done, and then lied about, TO YOU, AND TO ALL OF US. This man is your president, and he lied his ass off TO YOU TO, JAMIE.