Just Skimmed Through STORMS

[wolfontherun]

Originally Posted by carol7lynn

Immoral people are essentially dishonest and play by rules not sanctioned by society and without regards for how their behavior(s) may negatively impact others. In that respect, CAH is immoral. Immoral people seldom tell the truth, let alone live it. They are masters at making a lie seem real. The vast majority of them habitually try to escape accountability, by playing the hapless, and yes, perennial victim of others (in particular) or circumstances (in general.)

Secondly, her personal, accountings/observations about the members of FWM, are thereby, flawed and just like her character, unreliable and untrustworthy. What other members of the band said about her or each other, is not a sound argument to justify the support of her spiteful, and often inaccurate, literary betrayal of the confidences of others. Nor does the argument that a book publisher would not have supported her efforts by publishing her work, if what she said, was not sanctionable. Case in point, one such publishing house paid O.J. Simpson big bucks to co-write a book entitled "What If I Did It?" Indeed!

Lastly, CAH was never a member of the band and her motivations for telling tales now, after fences have been mended within the band only reflects her unrelenting bitterness over not being "An Insider."

If your life is a mess, then it is because of the unwise choices that you have made. If you continue to have negative things happen to you without changing what you are doing, then you have only yourself to blame. CAH seldom blames herself, but always blames others/circumstances for the negative things that happen to her.

By and large, things just don't happen to us but we make them happen. Just mull-over these five points for example. She could have chosen to act responsibly but she repeatedly chose not to. Our behaviors reveal our true character and, quite frankly, I find her behaviors deplorable and, as such, reflective of a person of immoral character.

I am not being sanctimonious, as one poster inaccurately pointed out, instead I am questioning her motives for (mis)leading the public into believing what she has to say is actually a true and accurate accounting of the "Storms" within the band or even between her and Lindsey. To do that I have examined what she has done and is doing with her own life. People who point fingers at others, while making themselves look beyond reproach, are liars and fakes.

CAH is an asocial, if not anti-social, user who is still, trying to distract from the fact, that she was her own worst enemy in the "Storms" that brewed around the Mac family; not Stevie and not Lindsey. We teach people how to treat us, one famous TV psychologist preaches daily to his audience, and he is right. If people are mistreating you then you either put your foot down and stop it or you leave. And, what CAD does is, she immorally sacrifices her first born child and eventually her own personal safety, to attain the rock star lifestyle that she couldn't obviously earn on her own merits/talents but calculatingly and vicariously tries to gain through her associations with stars.

How telling that, twenty years later she is dishing it for the dollar rather than earning her keep through her musical talents and abilities; whether as a sound engineer or an artist. As I stated in an earlier post, it is also quite telling that she makes sure everyone knows, on her dedication page, that her current husband is a musician. Who cares? She does because even today, she can still only identify herself, in the entertainment business, by her latest man.

Point 1: She was deceitful and unfaithful when she willingly cheated, on her live-in boyfriend and father of her unwanted child, with LB.

Point 2: Rather than take responsibility for her own body and the welfare of any children that she might have, she fails to either marry her sexual partner or practice adequate birth control and proceeds to get pregnant out of wedlock. She was, therefore, acting irresponsibly, without principles and without discipline.
In short, she knowingly and willingly engaged in asocial behaviors, without any consideration for the welfare of any children that she might bring into this world when she had sex with a man with whom she had no legal ties. She was not a naive 15 year old living in her family's home back in Oklahoma. She was a grown woman living and working in Hollywood.

Point 3: Instead of acting responsibly and getting a better paying job and/or taking advantage of the social welfare programs available in the liberal state of California to help her keep her child, she shifts her responsibilities onto someone else. She dumps the child to continue her pursuit of a star which for her is her true career.

Point 4: She leaves one boyfriend's bed to move in with another (LB) and continues the self-destructive pattern of living without legally marrying her (sexual) partner and, once again, becomes pregnant out-of-wedlock.

That fact is laws are, codified morals, enacted by society for a reason and that is to deter us from engaging in behaviors that are injurious/unjust to ourselves and others. Bringing children into a situation where there is no established legal union/arrangement in place to support our child or ourselves, is again irresponsible and unfair to any children, such an illicit union, might produce.

Point 5: Bootlegging concert albums is illegal and a felony. Like most criminals, she makes no apologies for what she has done. Wonder what she would think if someone bootlegged her book and cut her out of her share of the profits?

I remain firm in my observation that her book sheds no light on the "Storms" within the MAC as she touts. It's a vain attempt to recapture the fame and fortune she set out to garner when she set out for Hollywood thirty some odd years ago. Her story is no different than Anna Nicole Smith's and you saw how that one ended.

CarolC

OK already we get it now be gone!

[catinthedark]

Originally Posted by mgikallaroundme

All this tells me is that you don't know jack about publishing or the confidentiality of medical records. You can't get someone's private medical records even if you think they've lied about something you did or didn't do. These days you can also get anything published under most circumstances. It doesn't have to be true. You can tell bold face lies in print and on television and still not be held accountable. Memiors have been proven completely fabricated and nothing was done to the publisher or the author. Take that guy who had a fake memior promoted onto the best seller list by Oprah. What about the guy who made up an entire magazine/newspaper series about a child heroin addict that won the Pulitzer Prize? It was 100% fake. Nothing happened to either of them. The publisher's weren't sued even though people paid good money to read something they were told was fact and it turned out to be totally fabricated.

i have to say, with all due respect, that i disagree with much of your post. and i am a professional writer, so while i don't purport by any means to know it all, i think i have some insight.

making up a memoir based on "your own life" is very different from making things up in a memoir that involve someone else. i don't think CAH could have gotten away with publishing flat out lies about lindsey, or about stevie or any of the others, for that matter. and i think that this book has gone through many levels of legal action. it had at least one other previous publishing date; it was postponed, delayed. i think that is because it was going through lindsey and stevie's lawyers. at this point, i believe what she has published is her take on what happened - and cannot be legally disputed by either lindsay or stevie. they're not idiots - and they're not without considerable funds. if they thought they could prove what she wrote was false in court, they would have. that doesn't mean it is 100% accurate; it doesn't mean it's 100% INaccurate. it means no one can prove it otherwise in a court of law.

Originally Posted by mgikallaroundme

American publishers are not liable for falsehoods in someone's so-called memiors. The source is accountable for what is printed. Good luck with a lawsuit on that basis especially if it is against a vanity publisher like the one that printed this book. If you have the money you can get anything published in this country. It doesn't have to be authentic. It doesn't have to be truthful whatsoever. Pay upfront and you can get a book out. Nobody cares what your purpose is. Just because something is in print or online or said on TV doesn't make it true. Let's get real. Carol has not made a dime on this book. You can make bank on it. Money was payed out to get this trash into circulation and I'm sure if Buckingham cared one bit about her telling this tall tale he would say something. He hasn't. That tells me he couldn't care less.

i think THAT ias the key. i think both stevie and lindsey had their lawyers interfere with the parts they could; what's left, they figured, what's the big deal? everyone has heard about it already. and truthfully, we all have, no? i haven't read the book, but i've read everything people have written about it and i've learned nothing new - nothing i haven't read various versions of in interviews or in mick's book through the years.

you can bet carol ann HAS made some money off tihs. a publisher paid her to write it. will she make grand royalties off it? probably not. as much as WE may care, we are a drop in the drop of the drop in a bucket of readers out there. the potential audience of this book is tiny. truly, it is already SO five minutes ago. and won't change how anyone sees or hears fleetwood mac or stevie nicks or lindsey buckingham.

[camchristo]

Originally Posted by danax6

I actually found it to be the other way around. Yes, there is a lot of Stevie in it, but she seems to dismiss everything out of hand concerning her. Like she was the smallest blip on the radar ever. She says Lindsey didn't give a rat's ass about her at all, except when he had to deal with her on a professional level. She speaks about some incidents in great detail, she elaborates on what a few of his songs are about, as long as she thinks they are about her. But then she completely evades why Lindsey had those aggressive outbursts, even when it's obvious they coincide with what was going on with Stevie at the time, and she also does not speak about the songs that are definitely not about her. She does not bring up anything personal between Stevie and Lindsey, even though she keeps bringing up the triangle she is stuck in. To me it didn't seem all that tough, and I know it had to have been tougher. She also speaks in great lengths about the bizarreness between Lindsey and Stevie that went on in Australia and New Zealand during the Tusk tour, but she doesn't breathe one word about why they were like that or what was going on between them. She keeps bringing the subject back to her, as if Stevie didn't even matter when obviously she played a big part in some of those major events. In fact, I find her stuff about Stevie, at least the parts where she says she thought of her as this 'beautiful rock and roll goddess' and how she wanted to be friends with her completely forced, because she doesn't resist any chance to make her look like a fool, or to one up her. It's very conflicting.

At the end it had gotten so bad that I almost expected her to say that Lindsey asked "What do you want, you blubbering fool?" when Stevie called his house, sobbing, right after Robin died. Because throughout the entire book that was the tone. It was the only moment in those 7 years where he seemed almost normal.

Hey, I haven't read the book yet, waiting for it to get here from Amazon. I'm just curious though, since I have no knowledge of this. What was going on with Stevie that cause LB to freak at various times? Also, what when down in Australia and New Zealand with them during Tusk?

One more question. You really know a lot about timelines and info regarding tour dates, relationships, you name it. I can only aspire to your level of knowledge, but I'd like to try. Where do you get your info?

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by wolfontherun

OK already we get it now be gone!

sorry, i find it kind of funny that you quoted that long-ass 2 week old post in its entirety to just tell her to go away that post was pretty well forgotten by most people, i'd guess.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by camchristo

One more question. You really know a lot about timelines and info regarding tour dates, relationships, you name it. I can only aspire to your level of knowledge, but I'd like to try. Where do you get your info?

she is The Vanessa. no one knows where her information comes from. she is just ... The Vanessa.

[mgikallaroundme]

Originally Posted by catinthedark

i have to say, with all due respect, that i disagree with much of your post. and i am a professional writer, so while i don't purport by any means to know it all, i think i have some insight.

making up a memoir based on "your own life" is very different from making things up in a memoir that involve someone else. i don't think CAH could have gotten away with publishing flat out lies about lindsey, or about stevie or any of the others, for that matter. and i think that this book has gone through many levels of legal action. it had at least one other previous publishing date; it was postponed, delayed. i think that is because it was going through lindsey and stevie's lawyers. at this point, i believe what she has published is her take on what happened - and cannot be legally disputed by either lindsay or stevie. they're not idiots - and they're not without considerable funds. if they thought they could prove what she wrote was false in court, they would have. that doesn't mean it is 100% accurate; it doesn't mean it's 100% INaccurate. it means no one can prove it otherwise in a court of law.




i think THAT ias the key. i think both stevie and lindsey had their lawyers interfere with the parts they could; what's left, they figured, what's the big deal? everyone has heard about it already. and truthfully, we all have, no? i haven't read the book, but i've read everything people have written about it and i've learned nothing new - nothing i haven't read various versions of in interviews or in mick's book through the years.

you can bet carol ann HAS made some money off tihs. a publisher paid her to write it. will she make grand royalties off it? probably not. as much as WE may care, we are a drop in the drop of the drop in a bucket of readers out there. the potential audience of this book is tiny. truly, it is already SO five minutes ago. and won't change how anyone sees or hears fleetwood mac or stevie nicks or lindsey buckingham.

As a professional writer, with insight and such, I don't suppose you learned anywhere that a sentence begins with a capital letter?

What makes you think Stevie Nicks or Lindsey Buckingham would want to dispute anything in this book? I don't assume it. I highly doubt it. So what if the book had a prior publication date? How does that make it an accurate or truthful picture of anything? Also, what makes you think Carol Ann Harris was paid by a publisher to publish this stuff? Someone might have been paid. It is not the person you believe is earning handsome royalties. You just assume it to be true. I assume it is not true. I know a thing or two about book publishing. Anyone can self-publish anything they want to see in print. It doesn't have to be true, accurate, or even certifiable as non-fiction to be passed off as a such. People can also publish books under assumed names. You would never know unless the author wanted you to know. If anyone sees this book on the shelf of any major public or academic library I might assume it is a legitimate work. Otherwise, being for sale through major book distrubution channels doesn't prove it went through any editorial review, quality control, or legal review. None at all.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by camchristo

Hey, I haven't read the book yet, waiting for it to get here from Amazon. I'm just curious though, since I have no knowledge of this. What was going on with Stevie that cause LB to freak at various times? Also, what when down in Australia and New Zealand with them during Tusk?

****, you're quoting two-week old posts. Now I have to think long and hard about what the **** I was talking about again. I'm at work so I don't have the book handy to verify some of the things I am trying to remember. One of the things that struck me as odd was that CAH specifically mentions that while Lindsey was writing songs like Not That Funny he became a little more aggressive, sexually and I guess in general. She elaborates on what the songs are about when she thinks they are about her, like Save Me A Place, but then completely dismisses why Lindsey was behaving the way he was when writing those others songs. We all know the timeline coincides with Stevie and Mick doing the hanky panky and everyone being aware of it, but according to CAH he was indifferent, didn't care at all, that he probably didn't even notice. It's been said by at least 3 different people that Mick sat down at Lindsey's kitchen table at one point and told him about the affair, yet CAH never brings this up either. Where did she suppose those songs came from?

As for Oz and New Zealand. It was blatantly obvious something was going on between Lindsey and Stevie, but CAH only talks about the kicking incident on stage. This was all right around the time that Stevie apparantly went ape-**** on CAH and said that it would be a cold day in hell before she'd let Carol marry Lindsey. Then when Lindsey gets aggressive with CAH, she only talks about herself, what her role was in all of it, and she wonders if she did anything wrong to deserve it. To the reader, it's obvious Lindsey's demons coming out had to do with whatever was going on with Stevie, but once again CAH pretends that she doesn't exist, plays an insignificant part in the 'triangle'. She keeps saying Lindsey was indifferent towards Stevie. Well, obviously he wasn't, but what made him lash out like that?

These are all just things that make it clear to me that CAH turned the story into a certain direction, one that is at the least very one-sided. Which I guess was to be expected, considering this is her book, but it just annoys me because I feel like I am missing huge chunks of the story. Chunks that she left out deliberately and that for me makes it hard to take her book seriously.

One more question. You really know a lot about timelines and info regarding tour dates, relationships, you name it. I can only aspire to your level of knowledge, but I'd like to try. Where do you get your info?

I'm in Fleetwood Mac College.

Nah, my mind just really has an endless capacity for useless information. It's scary.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by carrie721

she is The Vanessa. no one knows where her information comes from. she is just ... The Vanessa.

bitch.

[DeeGeMe]

Originally Posted by mgikallaroundme

All this tells me is that you don't know jack about publishing or the confidentiality of medical records. You can't get someone's private medical records even if you think they've lied about something you did or didn't do. These days you can also get anything published under most circumstances. It doesn't have to be true. You can tell bold face lies in print and on television and still not be held accountable. Memiors have been proven completely fabricated and nothing was done to the publisher or the author. Take that guy who had a fake memior promoted onto the best seller list by Oprah. What about the guy who made up an entire magazine/newspaper series about a child heroin addict that won the Pulitzer Prize? It was 100% fake. Nothing happened to either of them. The publisher's weren't sued even though people paid good money to read something they were told was fact and it turned out to be totally fabricated. American publishers are not liable for falsehoods in someone's so-called memiors. The source is accountable for what is printed. Good luck with a lawsuit on that basis especially if it is against a vanity publisher like the one that printed this book. If you have the money you can get anything published in this country. It doesn't have to be authentic. It doesn't have to be truthful whatsoever. Pay upfront and you can get a book out. Nobody cares what your purpose is. Just because something is in print or online or said on TV doesn't make it true. Let's get real. Carol has not made a dime on this book. You can make bank on it. Money was payed out to get this trash into circulation and I'm sure if Buckingham cared one bit about her telling this tall tale he would say something. He hasn't. That tells me he couldn't care less.

All CAH would have to do is request her medial records be released and viola, she gets them and there is her proof. We know that LB has a certain history when it comes to violence against women and that is by his own admission and the first hand accounts of various band members. And he most certainly could sue for what was in that book if it weren't true and that tells me all I need to know about what you THINK you know and what's reality about who you can sue and what you can sue over.

And to whomever posted the rant before this about how CAH was immoral, etc. because she didn't practice birth control and horror of horrors, had sex with someone without being married to them (the hussy!)---excuse me but Lindsey's wife, whose name escapes me at the moment, didn't she either have their first kid before they were married or they got married while she was pregnant with the first kid? What does that make her exactly?

Really, LB isn't perfect, not by a longshot. I think even he would tell you that. Drugs and alcohol also make people very different than what their "normal selves" would be. The fact remains she had the right to tell her story, yes there are always 2 sides to a story but what is being written here on this board about how CAH is an agent of the devil and LB is a perfect angel should be filed in the "fiction" category. The truth, I'm sure, lies somewhere between the two with both of them.

[missus]

I had to think twice about posting here but I wanted to give you all
my opinion of Carols book.

I was present at a lot of the times she mentions , i.e the Halloween Party
in Hancock Park , the gig in Philadelphia when Lindsey was hospitalized ( I
opened up for them, along with Steve Miller and others), at the Producers
workshop when they were putting od's on Rumors, and also whrn Lindsey was producing parts of "Sentimental Lady" at that same studio(Producers Workshop), in Sausulito during much of the recording of Rumors , at Village
Recorderes studio D when they were doing Tusk many many nights,
at Stevies various houses at different times, at Micks Bel-Air house on Bellagio Rd after the "big" meeting , at Micks "Blue Whale " house in
Malibu when he was with Sara Recor, backstage before they went on , on
their private plane when I was opening up for them and Mick was my
manager etc. etc. etc., backstage when Dennis Wilson was on the road with them.......and on and on.I remeber the "bottle caps" (they were Heinekin caps;-)..... the "bumps" on the fist ( I got 'em too , from J.C.)all of that.
I was around Carol Harris a lot. Let me say that , for me, everything she portrays rings true. I never witnessed any personal violence toward her from Lindsey of course, but having been at a lot of the scenes she describes, I would agree with her recreation of the settings , mood,
and personalities of the people and places as she portrays them.

That's my 2 cents...

Bob Welch

[danax6]

Oy, you know you got a good discussion going on when even former bandmembers start to put in their two cents.

[michelle2677]

Originally Posted by danax6

Oy, you know you got a good discussion going on when even former bandmembers start to put in their two cents.

LMFAO!

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by missus

I had to think twice about posting here but I wanted to give you all
my opinion of Carols book.

I was present at a lot of the times she mentions , i.e the Halloween Party
in Hancock Park , the gig in Philadelphia when Lindsey was hospitalized ( I
opened up for them, along with Steve Miller and others), at the Producers
workshop when they were putting od's on Rumors, and also whrn Lindsey was producing parts of "Sentimental Lady" at that same studio(Producers Workshop), in Sausulito during much of the recording of Rumors , at Village
Recorderes studio D when they were doing Tusk many many nights,
at Stevies various houses at different times, at Micks Bel-Air house on Bellagio Rd after the "big" meeting , at Micks "Blue Whale " house in
Malibu when he was with Sara Recor, backstage before they went on , on
their private plane when I was opening up for them and Mick was my
manager etc. etc. etc., backstage when Dennis Wilson was on the road with them.......and on and on.I remeber the "bottle caps" (they were Heinekin caps;-)..... the "bumps" on the fist ( I got 'em too , from J.C.)all of that.
I was around Carol Harris a lot. Let me say that , for me, everything she portrays rings true. I never witnessed any personal violence toward her from Lindsey of course, but having been at a lot of the scenes she describes, I would agree with her recreation of the settings , mood,
and personalities of the people and places as she portrays them.

That's my 2 cents...

Bob Welch

From one Bob to another, thank you for chiming in (and for all of your wonderful music too!). Your candor and perspective are very much appreciated.

[mgikallaroundme]

Originally Posted by missus

I was around Carol Harris a lot. Let me say that , for me, everything she portrays rings true. I never witnessed any personal violence toward her from Lindsey of course, but having been at a lot of the scenes she describes, I would agree with her recreation of the settings , mood,
and personalities of the people and places as she portrays them.

That's my 2 cents...

Bob Welch

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

From one Bob to another, thank you for chiming in (and for all of your wonderful music too!). Your candor and perspective are very much appreciated.

Yes, thanks Bob! Your candor in supporting Carol Harris is much appreciated. Now please share what you know about Carol Ann Harris.

[DeeGeMe]

Originally Posted by danax6

Oy, you know you got a good discussion going on when even former bandmembers start to put in their two cents.

No ****! LOL. Hi Bob!