Making Rumours by Ken Caillat

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I really really really want Stevie to write a book. And yes CAH was horribly written. Like reading a 6th grade book.

How is her book any worse than Stevie's journal entries/freeform prose which have been posted on the Nicksfix?

I love Stevie to death, but every~ single~ incomplete~ sentence~ ending~ with~ these~ things~ drives~ me~ bonkers~. It's~ like~ something~ a~ 9~ year~ old~ girl~ would~ do~.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Stevie said that Lindsey was going to kill her. Mick said he had her over the hood of a car and slapped her Christine did not comment on that incident. John made the strangling gesture. I would not say that the whole band attested to a strangling.

Whatever the case, it was still pretty violent.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Whatever the case, it was still pretty violent.

I wasn't making a non-violence argument.

Michele

[MrStevie]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Whatever the case, it was still pretty violent.

The man has issues. Worse, all the people attest to his violent behavior but nobody ever did a damn thing about it.

He abused them. He abused women in their presence. Everybody let it slide!

Nobody minds tattling now. Why not when it mattered? WTF?

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

How is her book any worse than Stevie's journal entries/freeform prose which have been posted on the Nicksfix?

I love Stevie to death, but every~ single~ incomplete~ sentence~ ending~ with~ these~ things~ drives~ me~ bonkers~. It's~ like~ something~ a~ 9~ year~ old~ girl~ would~ do~.

HAHAHAHA!!!! I love you louie!! that was really funny...

[bombaysaffires]

Having spent many years as a domestic violence counselor, you'd be surprised at how subtle to outside observation serious dv can often be. As well, the real, nasty violence often happens outside of public view, in privacy at home, and when the offender is in public all he has to do is give certain signals to the victim who knows what they mean-- 'I'm pissed off now and you are REALLY going to get it when we get out of here and get home'. The hand on her neck could easily have been a lot harder than it would seem to others (with her long hair how could anyone else really see how hard he was squeezing) and even if it "wasn't that hard" it may well have been intended to let her know how displeased he was and how much she was going to pay later. All speculation of course, but within the world of domestic violence, that's usually how it works.

I do believe he had anger management issues that erupted in physical violence. Do I know for a fact? Obviously not. But there's enough "leakage" in the protective screen around his behavior and consistency in the stories (him losing control and getting into some sort of physical aggression with someone) that it rings very realistic in my experience.

I suspect he was violent with Stevie throughout their relationship. I think she's kept quiet about it and put up with it for however long because he a)probably felt bad about it later and expressed some kind of regret (a common behavior, that doesn't stop repeats) and b) this may be harsh, but she wanted to be a star whatever it took....and no one was going to rock the FM success boat....and I would suspect that if Stevie wasn't going to make an issue out of it, no one else in the band was going to.

I've always found LBs comments to Stevie on the webcam footage in Destiny Rules about "making up for things in the past" between them very interesting. It does seem like he's had a LOT of shrinkage (i.e. therapy with a shrink) over the years and worked through a lot of his demons...but I think he had some pretty fierce ones.

All of course is just my opinion and YMMV.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

The hand on her neck could easily have been a lot harder than it would seem to others (with her long hair how could anyone else really see how hard he was squeezing) and even if it "wasn't that hard" it may well have been intended to let her know how displeased he was and how much she was going to pay later.

Yeah, that happens. Indeed, she wrote in the book that she did pay later. But she didn't describe the Costello incident as a warning of things to come or suggest that she perceived it as threatening because she knew worse was coming when they were alone that evening.

People, abusive mates and parents, bullies, etc., can all menace with a look, there's no doubt about that. But I don't think that's what Carol was describing in that passage, that she was scared because she knew worse was promised. I think she was describing an attack that didn't look like one to anyone else.

As for Lindsey, the fact that he said to Mojo, "If I kicked her . . . " is an acknowledgment that whether or not he remembers the incident, he is not denying that he had the propensity to do something like that: kick Stevie. That coupled with the fact that she (presumably, Mojo doesn't say which one of them spoke actually, the man or the woman) directly asked him if he remembered when he threw that guitar at her, says that she was saying in his presence that he threw a guitar at her and he wasn't denying it.

So, I don't say that he isn't violent.

I just don't believe the strangling stuff.

Although, I do take note of his habit of hugging people by holding their neck in the crook of his elbow. Could be related to strangling. I don't know.

Michele

[henryscutter]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Having spent many years as a domestic violence counselor, you'd be surprised at how subtle to outside observation serious dv can often be. As well, the real, nasty violence often happens outside of public view, in privacy at home, and when the offender is in public all he has to do is give certain signals to the victim who knows what they mean-- 'I'm pissed off now and you are REALLY going to get it when we get out of here and get home'. The hand on her neck could easily have been a lot harder than it would seem to others (with her long hair how could anyone else really see how hard he was squeezing) and even if it "wasn't that hard" it may well have been intended to let her know how displeased he was and how much she was going to pay later. All speculation of course, but within the world of domestic violence, that's usually how it works.

I do believe he had anger management issues that erupted in physical violence. Do I know for a fact? Obviously not. But there's enough "leakage" in the protective screen around his behavior and consistency in the stories (him losing control and getting into some sort of physical aggression with someone) that it rings very realistic in my experience.

I suspect he was violent with Stevie throughout their relationship. I think she's kept quiet about it and put up with it for however long because he a)probably felt bad about it later and expressed some kind of regret (a common behavior, that doesn't stop repeats) and b) this may be harsh, but she wanted to be a star whatever it took....and no one was going to rock the FM success boat....and I would suspect that if Stevie wasn't going to make an issue out of it, no one else in the band was going to.

I've always found LBs comments to Stevie on the webcam footage in Destiny Rules about "making up for things in the past" between them very interesting. It does seem like he's had a LOT of shrinkage (i.e. therapy with a shrink) over the years and worked through a lot of his demons...but I think he had some pretty fierce ones.

All of course is just my opinion and YMMV.

I tend to agree with this- Only those who were in the relationships or very close to them know the extent of the violence. As long a there is a franchise to protect you wont hear much from the band members. IMHO it is the reason S&L broke up. I am glad everyone survived and got the help they needed.

[MrStevie]

Originally Posted by henryscutter

I tend to agree with this- Only those who were in the relationships or very close to them know the extent of the violence. As long a there is a franchise to protect you wont hear much from the band members. IMHO it is the reason S&L broke up. I am glad everyone survived and got the help they needed.

I agree with you henry. Everyone was protecting the franchise. Doesn't that piss you off? It does me.

We only heard about LB's violence after he quit FM, not before. All the violent acts insiders confess are events that took place before 1987. So are we supposed to believe he's cured from therapy, or we're not hearing about any recent violence because it's business as usual again? Everybody's protecting the francise.

[Dodfather]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I love Stevie to death, but every~ single~ incomplete~ sentence~ ending~ with~ these~ things~ drives~ me~ bonkers~. It's~ like~ something~ a~ 9~ year~ old~ girl~ would~ do~.

Yes! As someone who marks a lot of student essays (high school and uni/college) I just want to get out my pen and score right through any of that when I see it!

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

How is her book any worse than Stevie's journal entries/freeform prose which have been posted on the Nicksfix?

I love Stevie to death, but every~ single~ incomplete~ sentence~ ending~ with~ these~ things~ drives~ me~ bonkers~. It's~ like~ something~ a~ 9~ year~ old~ girl~ would~ do~.

True, however, journal entries and free-form prose are a lot different than book writing. I seriously doubt Stevie would write a book with all that sh*t in it. She's not so crazy as to write a book that reads like her journal entries would she? Okay, don't answer that question.

[David]

Stevie may write a book one day, but it's not going to be a biography. It would only be the sort of book filled with ellipses, tildes, and much rambling and incoherence. The idea that she -- Stevie Nicks -- would ever be inclined or able to write a sustained narrative, of herself or anyone she knows, is absolutely ludicrous. And she would never allow a "ghost" to write such a thing in her name.

The only book you'll ever see her name on would be something like "Dreams, Stories, and Poems" or "My Life and Dreams in Art" or something like that. Look elsewhere for a biography of Stevie Nicks or the band.

[dnightshade]

Originally Posted by David

Stevie may write a book one day, but it's not going to be a biography. It would only be the sort of book filled with ellipses, tildes, and much rambling and incoherence. The idea that she -- Stevie Nicks -- would ever be inclined or able to write a sustained narrative, of herself or anyone she knows, is absolutely ludicrous. And she would never allow a "ghost" to write such a thing in her name.
The only book you'll ever see her name on would be something like "Dreams, Stories, and Poems" or "My Life and Dreams in Art" or something like that. Look elsewhere for a biography of Stevie Nicks or the band.

And you're sure of this? Such certainty and conviction must come from somewhere. This lack of faith is discouraging.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

True, however, journal entries and free-form prose are a lot different than book writing. I seriously doubt Stevie would write a book with all that sh*t in it. She's not so crazy as to write a book that reads like her journal entries would she? Okay, don't answer that question.

Whether she would or not, her editors wouldn't. Random House or whomever, might include a picture of one of her handwritten goodies as a sample, but they aren't putting out a whole book of that. Even without a ghostwriter, she will be heavily edited.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MrStevie

We only heard about LB's violence after he quit FM, not before. All the violent acts insiders confess are events that took place before 1987. So are we supposed to believe he's cured from therapy, or we're not hearing about any recent violence because it's business as usual again? Everybody's protecting the francise.

I don't really buy the argument that they were protecting the franchise back then because 35 years ago I don't think they would have suspected that the revelation of such information would endanger the band or its reputation. The public had different sensibilities and reactions back then.

Michele